The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Awol]

9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

if you have lots of time on your hands you can look through the Tory thread and see how many times we've been told this sort of thing is exclusive to the nasty Tory's .. first one to 20 wins the internet ?

Iit's been mental over the last few weeks, seems every other day Labour has another Jew baiting/hating expose. Article below in the Guardian was over a month ago and it's just kept rolling since then. Quite bizarre really. 

Labour and the Left have an anti-Semitism problem

 

Quote

 

As the Conservative party divides its time between running the country and tearing itself apart over Europe, Labour has been consumed with a rather different problem. In the past two weeks, it has had to expel two activists for overt racism. That follows the creation of an inquiry into the Labour club at Oxford University, after the co-chair resigned saying the club was riddled with racism. The racism in question is hatred of Jews.

 

I suspect many in Labour and on the wider left dearly wish three things to be true of this problem. That these are just a few bad apples in an otherwise pristine barrel; that these incidents aren’t actually about racism at all but concern only opposition to Israel; and that none of this reflects negatively on Jeremy Corbyn.

 

Start with the bad apples. The cases of Gerry Downing and Vicki Kirby certainly look pretty rotten. The former said it was time to wrestle with the “Jewish Question”, the latter hailed Hitler as a “Zionist God” and tweeted a line about Jews having “big noses”, complete with a “lol”.

 

It’d be so much easier if these were just two rogue cases. But when Alex Chalmers quit his post at Oxford’s Labour club, he said he’d concluded that many had “some kind of problem with Jews”. He cited the case of one club member who organised a group to shout “filthy Zionist” at a Jewish student whenever they saw her. Former Labour MP Tom Harris wrote this week that the party “does indeed have a problem with Jews”. And there is, of course, the word of Jews themselves. They have been warning of this phenomenon for years, lamenting that parts of the left were succumbing to views of Jews drenched in prejudice.

 

Much more on link

Labour racists... they must have come home after the BNP disintegrated?

Edited April 28, 2016 by Awol
Formatting

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

if you have lots of time on your hands you can look through the Tory thread and see how many times we've been told this sort of thing is exclusive to the nasty Tory's .. first one to 20 wins the internet ?

Really? Twenty claims that racism is exclusive to the tory party? 

I'd be interested if you can find 10, or even 5. Let's set the bar at 3. No, **** it, just find one.

 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

There does seem to be an element of anti-semitism within the Labour ranks and I've no idea why it is there or how it got there. It is certainly incongruous with any notions of being a 'progressive' party.

Added to this nonsense, we have the Tories running a disgusting and blatantly racist mayoral campaign in London. You'd think both parties would know better by now.

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

Go on then. Go find the 20 (or more) examples of "this sort of thing" in that thread.

I rather suspect you won't be able to. But regardless it's completely beside the point. There are anti-semites, islamophobes, racists, bigots, etc. across all parts of society and so there will be in all parties. Some more than others, true, but I wouldn't put either Labour or Tories at the top of the odious membership tree. 

only because you deleted the last thread

 but you're not daft you know full well it was full of posts like that , I don't think you'd even need more than 5 nano seconds to know the name of the poster(s) that made the vast majority of those posts as well

 

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

There does seem to be an element of anti-semitism within the Labour ranks and I've no idea why it is there or how it got there...

I think it's to do with Israel (Doh! what have I just gone and written! that's me one too, now.)

But I think it is to do with the Israel Palestine problems, and in particular somehow support for the Palestinian cause sometimes either attracts anti-semities, or maybe even makes (some) people become to an extent anti-semetic.

Plus there's also a fair bit of accusation of people being anti-semetic when they are merely criticising Israeli policy or politicians or Gov't.

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

only because you deleted the last thread

 but you're not daft you know full well it was full of posts like that , I don't think you'd even need more than 5 nano seconds to know the name of the poster(s) that made the vast majority of those posts as well

 

I think I am daft, because I genuinely don't know that, though. It was a while ago n'all and I've no doubt accidentally deleted loads of other threads since then, but, no....nada. Don't recognise what you're talking about.. 

[sharkyvilla]

There have been similar roots in the left as the right regarding the Jewish conspiracy and capitalism.  Added to the occupation of Palestine, I think it's inevitable that there are going to be certain anti-Zionist elements in Labour.  I'd consider myself a bit anti-Zionist but that's because I'm generally anti all religion and having one group occupy the land another group was living on is wrong.  But bringing Hitler into the argument in the 21st century, what the **** is he thinking?  Sounds like he has been suspended anyway.

Edited April 28, 2016 by sharkyvilla

[Mantis]

39 minutes ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

There does seem to be an element of anti-semitism within the Labour ranks and I've no idea why it is there or how it got there. It is certainly incongruous with any notions of being a 'progressive' party.

Added to this nonsense, we have the Tories running a disgusting and blatantly racist mayoral campaign in London. You'd think both parties would know better by now.

With somebody like Corbyn at the top it isn't a complete surprise. I don't believe for a second that he's anti-Semitic but a few who roll in the same political circles as him are.

As for London mayoral race, how is it racism? Sure you could argue the Tories have been scaremongering but the things they've been saying about Khan they've also been saying about Corbyn and McDonnell with regards to security.

[Chindie]

I suspect there are shitloads of Labour MPs who are anti-Israel. I don't think there will be that many that are genuinely 'anti-semitic'. I'm pretty anti-Israel, I couldn't give less of a rat's arse about Jewish people, the same as I don't really give a damn about any people, except for the general disdain I'd have for any religionists. According to many in the last few days that seemingly makes me an anti-semite (it doesn't, in reality, there is just the common tactic of calling anyone who doesn't believe Israel is above reproach anti-Jew instantaneously to shut down dissent).

Ken Livingstone has seemingly opened his mouth before fully engaging his brain. And has been suspended for it. I've no idea what the other MP is supposed to have said, presumably something stupid.

Cameron knows full well there isn't a 'anti-semite' problem, no more than the Tories have an 'X' problem. 

[tonyh29]

4 hours ago, Chindie said:

I've no idea what the other MP is supposed to have said, presumably something stupid.

If Trump had said the same there would have been a new thread started about it , that's how stupid it was  ..... but the rehab has started , the independent have kindly run an article about her troubled childhood to help us forgive her

 

I stand by my original point though , Cameron should have said nothing

[chrisp65]

As my own non-scientific version of a political survey, on my commute through town I can take a tally of the number of party political posters in gardens and windows.

Traditionally, a drive through town would see nothing but labour, arrival at the first green lane would see the first blue conservative sign. At the last couple of elections, there have been Plaid and Tory green and blue signs in town, remarkable for their previous absence.

For the election coming up here on 5th May, I'd say blue signs and posters have a comfortable majority in town and a 100% stranglehold out in the Vale. We have received pamphlets through the door from Tory, Plaid and UKIP. No labour. 

I think Labour could be about to lose control here, I think they might be in a bit of a mess. Could be wrong, just a hunch based on junk mail and window posters.

[HanoiVillan]

My feelings on this are basically that Livingstone has made a complete knob of himself, and having now made more than one foolish statement about Jews and anti-semitism and so on I think it's probably time for him to disappear from politics. 

Shah is primarily guilty of putting stupid shit on Facebook in my eyes. Her 'map' post can clearly be seen as offensive, though (without having seen it, I'm going by media descriptions) it sounds like whoever made the 'map' might have been trying to make a point about America's financial support for Israel (which should be a legitimate matter of debate) but in a very crass way. While I feel a bit sorry for her (though obviously not knowing the full facts) the reality is I can see why this is a big deal. And I have to be honest about myself as well: I sure didn't have any sympathy for Aidan Burley when he went to that fancy dress party in an SS uniform. So yes, of course my response is partly party-political. 

8 hours ago, Mantis said:

With somebody like Corbyn at the top it isn't a complete surprise. I don't believe for a second that he's anti-Semitic but a few who roll in the same political circles as him are.

As for London mayoral race, how is it racism? Sure you could argue the Tories have been scaremongering but the things they've been saying about Khan they've also been saying about Corbyn and McDonnell with regards to security.

Dog whistles are specifically chosen to fly under the radar of 'racism', but the Goldsmith campaign has been absolutely disgusting, and the idea that the issue is 'security' is nonsense. 

[coda]

Why was he banging on about Hitler? Like that other bloke quoting Mao in the commons. They're such useless clearings in the woods.

[snowychap]

8 hours ago, Mantis said:

With somebody like Corbyn at the top it isn't a complete surprise. I don't believe for a second that he's anti-Semitic but a few who roll in the same political circles as him are.

If someone had posted that about Tories, you'd have gone utterly mental.

[Mantis]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

If someone had posted that about Tories, you'd have gone utterly mental.

Why would I?

Then again, it's all a bit hypothetical because it isn't the case with them (not that they don't have their own issues).

41 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Dog whistles are specifically chosen to fly under the radar of 'racism', but the Goldsmith campaign has been absolutely disgusting, and the idea that the issue is 'security' is nonsense. 

I think this whole "dog whistle" thing has been overplayed a bit. If the Tories hadn't been making the same attacks on Corbyn and McDonnell then I'd agree but they have and if Ken Livingstone was running again for example they'd be saying the exact same things.

[snowychap]

I've just seen Ken's comments and I'm very troubled by them.

Without sitting down and analysing the whole lot (thus I'm laying myself open to getting it wrong) but Ken's stuff looked like it deserved John Mann's confrontation.

There is a vast difference between complaining about 'Jews'* and complaining about the actions of the state of Israel.

*The kind of stuff that ought to have people being shown, over and over again, the history (and disgusting detail) of anti-semitism in the 20th century in all countries.

[snowychap]

6 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Why would I?

The history of your posts would suggest that you'd have taken wild exception to negative aspersions such as the one you made if they'd have been made about the party you support.

[Mantis]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

The history of your posts would suggest that you'd have taken wild exception to negative aspersions such as the one you made if they'd have been made about the party you support.

Do you have any examples? I may vote Conservative (not always I should add) but that doesn't mean I've got a massive fondness for them. Remember, just because I despise Labour doesn't mean I'm some sort of die-hard Tory.

[HanoiVillan]

17 minutes ago, Mantis said:

I think this whole "dog whistle" thing has been overplayed a bit. If the Tories hadn't been making the same attacks on Corbyn and McDonnell then I'd agree but they have and if Ken Livingstone was running again for example they'd be saying the exact same things.

The Goldsmith campaign has recently been sending letters to British Indians advising them to worry about the security of jewellery in their houses should Khan win, while also boasting about Goldsmith palling around with Narendra Modi (who at the very least demonstrated total indifference to an anti-Muslim pogrom that killed 1000 people while he ran Gujarat). That goes beyond anything they've done, said or suggested about Corbyn or McDonnell. 

Nor is 'well, they've done the same thing to other people before' particularly good as an excuse either come to that. 

[Demitri_C]

Labour are a complete joke. At a week with hillsborough verdict, strikes in nhs labour should be tearing the government apart. Instead they manage to embarrass themselves again with thus nonsense.