tonyh29 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Was some tv program about the election whereby they visited a working man club in Labour heartland and spoke to people that would have been Labour's core support ..but didn't vote for them the reporter asked them " Why did you leave Labour" , the reply was " I didn't , Labour left me " I guess that's the first point the new leader of the party needs to address Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 10, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 10, 2015 Was some tv program about the election whereby they visited a working man club in Labour heartland and spoke to people that would have been Labour's core support ..but didn't vote for them the reporter asked them " Why did you leave Labour" , the reply was " I didn't , Labour left me " I guess that's the first point the new leader of the party needs to address That's true, and it illustrates the party's dilemma. Do they return to their old socialist principles? Or move further to the centre? All the noises coming out atm would indicate that it will be the latter. There are still people in this country (me among them) who believe in nationalisation/public ownership of utilities, transport and health services. Which party has that in their manifesto? Not Labour, not any more. The Greens do, and I was intrigued by the number of people I knew - not least here on VT - who did those online questionnaires and were surprised to discover that they should be voting Green. The ideological battles that used to be Labour v. Conservative (and central to British political debate) are now being fought out - ineffectually, it would seem - among the 'fringe' parties: Greens and UKIP. Arguably SNP. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Dan Jarvis has ruled himself out, didn't realise he lost his wife to cancer four years ago and is raising two young boys on his own so is putting them first. Good man, maybe next time round. EDIT: Miliband Senior apparently making a statement later on his political future. Given the rendition baggage he's carrying (and the small matter of not being an MP) I can't see him being in the running. Chuka Umunna has to be one of the smuggest people in politics so if they go there I think Labour will have problems. Who else do they have left, Yvette Cooper? Harriet? It's pretty grim really in terms of options. Edited May 11, 2015 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if Alan sugar would consider getting himself involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 11, 2015 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if Alan sugar would consider getting himself involved You mean the Alan Sugar that resigned from the Labour Party, which he announced just today? or is there another one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 What a prat he is. He's resigned because the party's now 'too left wing', even though there's an open leadership contest and every indication that Blairism is going to win the day. In terms of the overall leadership, the picture is fairly bleak, mainly because the contest is already being defined in Blairite/Brownite terminology. Some people can't stop partying like it's 2005. It would be great if the new leader had something to say on issues that are currently going totally unaddressed, like why we have one of the lowest productivity rates in the OECD just for one example. I don't hold out any hope for it. Best case scenario early doors seems to be Andy Burnham, worst case would be Umunna who seems to literally be a Tory as far as I can see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 David Miliband pretty critical of the campaign his brother ran. Not appealing to the aspirational middle classes in short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 11, 2015 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2015 ...It would be great if the new leader had something to say on issues that are currently going totally unaddressed, like why we have one of the lowest productivity rates in the OECD just for one example. I don't hold out any hope for it. Best case scenario early doors seems to be Andy Burnham, worst case would be Umunna who seems to literally be a Tory as far as I can see. That's really interesting to me. The reason why is because where I work there's been relentless focus on cost cutting and price, which is fair enough, though my thoughts are kind of that with the world pretty much in recession and with fierce competition to sell, companies are wary of investing in new stuff that could give a productivity boost, for fear that no-one will buy the products. So it's a bit of a vicious circle. There are less people working where I work, and less investment in R&D and stuff to make us better or come up with new techniques and skills. It has't stopped, and they seem like they're thinking very hard about where to invest, and are doing in some very focused areas, but are trying to second guess where customers might want product and what products. I work in a high tech industry, where a lot of the jobs are high skilled engineering work. I know much less about other industries, but I wonder if you're really going to improve productivity on the back of low wages, zero hours workers and such like - there's less motivation and attachment to the employer who does that. All the politicians who come to our place to gawp at the kit seem enthused by the set-up, as do various people from outside the UK...but nothing much ever seems to happen as a consequence. They say "Wow, that's impressive" [i paraphrase] and then they go away again and seemingly forget all about it, other than the odd soundbite about Engineering and... blah, blah and then they go back to talking about irrelevant things like Human Rights law changes or Fox huntering, or stuff that doesn't really affect the nations ability to make things, create things, generate wealth and so on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if Alan sugar would consider getting himself involved You mean the Alan Sugar that resigned from the Labour Party, which he announced just today? or is there another one? Really didnt hear about that I reckon Burham or umunna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I have no idea who Andy Burnham is apart from I know he's promised to campaign to keep the Alex in Redditch open and he seems to get behind the right football campaigns. Seems to have the right ideas so he's got my vote to be the one to lead the fightback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 What a prat he is. He's resigned because the party's now 'too left wing', even though there's an open leadership contest and every indication that Blairism is going to win the day.Not only that, in the immedaite aftermath it appears to be an utter mess as to why they (and others) think they didn't do as well as they thought they were going to.C4 News has just run a piece about Croydon where some small business owners were criticizing the Labour party's lack of appeal to them - unless I missed it, I didn't see many other reasons than 'they're not for us, are they'? There was nothing about policy - what policies the Labour party espoused that were going to hit small businesses in general or their businesses in particular.They then went to one of the Labour party's main donors who is also a businessman to ask him about whether he was going to continue supporting them.He seemed to criticize their policies whilst at the same time claiming that the business policies in the manifesto were all very good and he then went on in to the same kind of stuff as the voters above, i.e. that it was about perception, whilst also seeming to praise Ed Miliband's campaigning (which also seemed to be the case across the board until the exit poll came in on Thursday).Add in to all this that Umunna is appearing to criticize their approach to 'business' in the campaign - as shadow business minister surely he was at least a tiny bit responsible for that?So does he think that he walked around spouting shit for a month or is he just saying what he thinks people want to hear? A fair bit from A and a bucket load of B, I'd say.The reporter on the news item finished her report saying, "If the Labour party wanted to work out what went wrong, they could do worse than listen to those people in Croydon." What a crock - if they actually listened (to them and a lot of other people) they wouldn't have any idea why or what to do about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Burnham started the privatised of the NHS so he may have a hard time taking the moral high ground on that one There were even rumours of him begging to keep his job as Ed was about to bin him after he suffered one or two train wreck interviews ... he kept his job but Labour hid him back in the shadows of course maybe he removed himself from the limelight to distance himself from Ed .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 they could do a lot worse than Charlotte Church background to the rant: There was an anti austerity protest on Saturday, Charlotte took part and so the head of the Welsh Conservatives, RT Davies branded her a champagne socialist and her actions as 'unbecoming'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'd never even heard of Liz Kendall until about three days ago. She seems alright, in a kind of nondescript way, but it still seems to be a 'battle of the Blairites', it would be nice if someone from outside that group appeared, be good to have an actual debate of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What a prat he is. He's resigned because the party's now 'too left wing', even though there's an open leadership contest and every indication that Blairism is going to win the day. Not only that, in the immedaite aftermath it appears to be an utter mess as to why they (and others) think they didn't do as well as they thought they were going to. C4 News has just run a piece about Croydon where some small business owners were criticizing the Labour party's lack of appeal to them - unless I missed it, I didn't see many other reasons than 'they're not for us, are they'? There was nothing about policy - what policies the Labour party espoused that were going to hit small businesses in general or their businesses in particular. They then went to one of the Labour party's main donors who is also a businessman to ask him about whether he was going to continue supporting them. He seemed to criticize their policies whilst at the same time claiming that the business policies in the manifesto were all very good and he then went on in to the same kind of stuff as the voters above, i.e. that it was about perception, whilst also seeming to praise Ed Miliband's campaigning (which also seemed to be the case across the board until the exit poll came in on Thursday). Add in to all this that Umunna is appearing to criticize their approach to 'business' in the campaign - as shadow business minister surely he was at least a tiny bit responsible for that? So does he think that he walked around spouting shit for a month or is he just saying what he thinks people want to hear? A fair bit from A and a bucket load of B, I'd say. The reporter on the news item finished her report saying, "If the Labour party wanted to work out what went wrong, they could do worse than listen to those people in Croydon." What a crock - if they actually listened (to them and a lot of other people) they wouldn't have any idea why or what to do about it. Yeah, sadly The Electorate don't hand you an itemised note saying 'why you lost' so it's stupid for the media to act like that. The notion that Labour are ever really likely to do well amongst small-business owners is pretty absurd, I doubt if even '97 Blair got a majority of that group. And that's fine - sometimes you need the courage to understand that some people's views and priorities are antithetical to your own. It does seem like the right of the party has been far far more organised in its response to the election though - there have been countless editorials in the Guardian already, as well as D Miliband showing up complaining, as if his opinion should be relevant in any way. There seems to be an attempt to present the analysis that Miliband was 'too far left' and that a shift to the centre is inevitable as a fait accompli. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 There seems to be an attempt to present the analysis that Miliband was 'too far left' and that a shift to the centre is inevitable as a fait accompli. Staying on the political ground from which they just failed won't work so movement is required. Yes they need to analyse (if they can really face up to it) where and why they lost so much support, but my gut reaction is that a move further to the "left" would see them fall off the political map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In fact policy-wise I don't think they were that far left at all, but the rhetoric was divisive and I think that puts people off. Some policies (like rent controls) were also poorly thougt out in the manner they were presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 With Scotland now essentially a one party state the worst thing Labour can do is shore up their core vote if they want to get back into power. Middle England is where its at. Time to cosy up to the chattering classes again. Oh, and point of order - Sugar resigned in January but didn't announce until after the election so as not to damage the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 they could do a lot worse than Charlotte Church Couldn't we all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 12, 2015 Moderator Share Posted May 12, 2015 Was some tv program about the election whereby they visited a working man club in Labour heartland and spoke to people that would have been Labour's core support ..but didn't vote for them the reporter asked them " Why did you leave Labour" , the reply was " I didn't , Labour left me " I guess that's the first point the new leader of the party needs to address That's true, and it illustrates the party's dilemma. Do they return to their old socialist principles? Or move further to the centre? All the noises coming out atm would indicate that it will be the latter. There are still people in this country (me among them) who believe in nationalisation/public ownership of utilities, transport and health services. Which party has that in their manifesto? Not Labour, not any more. The Greens do, and I was intrigued by the number of people I knew - not least here on VT - who did those online questionnaires and were surprised to discover that they should be voting Green. The ideological battles that used to be Labour v. Conservative (and central to British political debate) are now being fought out - ineffectually, it would seem - among the 'fringe' parties: Greens and UKIP. Arguably SNP. Moonman, I agree entirely with everything except the first line of your post here. The centre is to the left of Labour in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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