snowychap Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 ...why they lost so much support...Their 'support' in terms of their share of the popular vote increased from 2010 to 2015 (by a larger proportion than the Tories' did - 1.5% v 0.8%). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 After Nigel Farage was persuaded to stay on as leader, the Conservatives are trying to do the same with Ed Miliband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Umana seems to have the most idea of what is required to win. However with UKIP polling 13% - and more in some labour heartlands - I feel the colour of skin would prove an electoral liability. Sadly we are society of closet racists. (thats my thoughts on society, not my own thoughts) Cooper or Kendall for me. I would have liked Dan Jarvis but obviously he has other prorities 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I can't see family get togethers at the Milibands being anything other than distinctly frosty for the foreseeable future! Revenge is a dish best served cold and all that, but that was a proper kicking from David to Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 There seems to be an attempt to present the analysis that Miliband was 'too far left' and that a shift to the centre is inevitable as a fait accompli. Staying on the political ground from which they just failed won't work so movement is required. Yes they need to analyse (if they can really face up to it) where and why they lost so much support, but my gut reaction is that a move further to the "left" would see them fall off the political map. Ideally, they wouldn't be imagining a two-dimensional spectrum consisting of 'left', 'right' and 'centre', and instead trying to think of some new approaches to issues without giving up core principles, which is obviously what Umunna wants. I've already mentioned the productivity puzzle as one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Umunna could present himself as a change from the old politics as he's argued that MPs should get out of Westminster, find a new house (I suggest a lair at the bottom of a lake) and change how PMQs is done etc. If he could sell that as well as being the centrist that he is, then he will do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 As long as Labour don't appoint anyone as useless as Ed then they're off to a flying start. Umunna seems the best choice now. Cooper and Kendall are too anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Apparently Umunna used to spin UK Garage. Gets my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Umana seems to have the most idea of what is required to win. However with UKIP polling 13% - and more in some labour heartlands - I feel the colour of skin would prove an electoral liability. Sadly we are society of closet racists. (thats my thoughts on society, not my own thoughts) Cooper or Kendall for me. I would have liked Dan Jarvis but obviously he has other prorities I dont think so, if it can happen in the states can happen here For me he comes across as likeable, a lot more than those dinosaurs like yvette cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Umana seems to have the most idea of what is required to win. However with UKIP polling 13% - and more in some labour heartlands - I feel the colour of skin would prove an electoral liability. Sadly we are society of closet racists. (thats my thoughts on society, not my own thoughts) Cooper or Kendall for me. I would have liked Dan Jarvis but obviously he has other prorities I dont think so, if it can happen in the states can happen here For me he comes across as likeable, a lot more than those dinosaurs like yvette cooper I kinda agree with Hippo here , I don't think the northern working mans party is quite ready to embrace a black leader... Or a woman for that matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 A very good passage, basically sums up my feelings very well: People who keep telling you that they want spiteful, resentful policies are going to vote for the most spiteful and resentful candidates that they can find. And that's in Scotland, where we're all repeatedly told how garrulous and **** friendly we are, rather than down south where fewer people bother to pretend. These people don't want Labour or the Lib Dems or the Greens or anyone else, for that matter, to offer a fairer benefits system or to tackle crime* more aggressively. They don't want to hear those parties' plans for "new controls on immigration", or for anything else. What they want is to elect the meanest, most sadistic motherf***ers that they can find, and for all of the touchy-feely parties to **** off. I can't say this strongly enough - if certain voters keep telling you that they want you to turn the DWP into the Gestapo and seal the borders, and you have no intention of doing either, then why in the name of God would you imagine that those voters will prefer your proposals to those of the parties that will beat the poor and shut out all the immigrants? Even worse, when you try to court these voters by going on TV and vowing to personally behead seven Romanian benefits claimants a day or whatever, you are alienating your own core voters, potentially forever. The viciousness voters will never believe that you're serious, and your own voters always will. Whatever you gain on the swings of Robust Policies For Hard-Working Families, you immediately lose on the roundabouts of basic human decency. Which tells me that the best thing to do is much like that hackneyed piece of advice for getting girls to like you - be yourself, act natural, don't try too hard by faking it. It's easier to convince people that you're being truthful if you're telling the truth, you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Umana seems to have the most idea of what is required to win. However with UKIP polling 13% - and more in some labour heartlands - I feel the colour of skin would prove an electoral liability. Sadly we are society of closet racists. (thats my thoughts on society, not my own thoughts) Cooper or Kendall for me. I would have liked Dan Jarvis but obviously he has other prorities I dont think so, if it can happen in the states can happen here For me he comes across as likeable, a lot more than those dinosaurs like yvette cooper Personally I like him. But the sort of voters he needs to attract are people who are only interested in politics fleetingly, if at all. They will look at the colours of Chuka's skin and say 'Not voting for him' - Sad but true in my experience. I think the states and Obama is quite different to here....I really don't think the public would go for a black PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm not sure on that Hippo. I might be being hugely naive, but the yanks seem to have some serious race issue going on, yet a black leader was still elected. My own view is there are less people as a % of the population in the UK that would vote purely on skin colour, but I have nothing to back that up, it's just my perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm not sure on that Hippo. I might be being hugely naive, but the yanks seem to have some serious race issue going on, yet a black leader was still elected. My own view is there are less people as a % of the population in the UK that would vote purely on skin colour, but I have nothing to back that up, it's just my perception. I would love you to be right...but look at the votes UKIP pulled in ? - immigration is the subject that get people going (even more sadly - I don't actuallly think they mean immigation !!!!) Its a real shame Dan Jarvis isn't standing for leader. I think Labour have a massive job on there hands to even come close in 2020 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm not sure on that Hippo. I might be being hugely naive, but the yanks seem to have some serious race issue going on, yet a black leader was still elected. My own view is there are less people as a % of the population in the UK that would vote purely on skin colour, but I have nothing to back that up, it's just my perception. I would love you to be right...but look at the votes UKIP pulled in ? - immigration is the subject that get people going (even more sadly - I don't actuallly think they mean immigation !!!!) Its a real shame Dan Jarvis isn't standing for leader. I think Labour have a massive job on there hands to even come close in 2020 - I totally agree there is a % who would vote purely on race/colour, I'm just not sure the % is that big to stop someone with a minority background getting elected. Im a bit gutted about Jarvis too. I read up on a few of the proposed candidates and inexperience aside, he seemed to stand out for me. His 'real life' background would have gained a lot of support straight off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm not sure on that Hippo. I might be being hugely naive, but the yanks seem to have some serious race issue going on, yet a black leader was still elected. My own view is there are less people as a % of the population in the UK that would vote purely on skin colour, but I have nothing to back that up, it's just my perception. I would love you to be right...but look at the votes UKIP pulled in ? - immigration is the subject that get people going (even more sadly - I don't actuallly think they mean immigation !!!!) Its a real shame Dan Jarvis isn't standing for leader. I think Labour have a massive job on there hands to even come close in 2020 - I totally agree there is a % who would vote purely on race/colour, I'm just not sure the % is that big to stop someone with a minority background getting elected. Im a bit gutted about Jarvis too. I read up on a few of the proposed candidates and inexperience aside, he seemed to stand out for me. His 'real life' background would have gained a lot of support straight off the bat. Well if you look at the votes UKIP gained in labour seats - you can see how would stop labour winning seats. IMO UKIP is now a wing of the Conservative party designed to hemorage Labour votes. Sure they pretend to be foes in public, but really the Tories are quite happy for UKIP to seize Labour voters - and UKIP will continue to do this as it keeps Labour out and also gives them influence over the Tories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Umana seems to have the most idea of what is required to win. However with UKIP polling 13% - and more in some labour heartlands - I feel the colour of skin would prove an electoral liability. Sadly we are society of closet racists. (thats my thoughts on society, not my own thoughts) Cooper or Kendall for me. I would have liked Dan Jarvis but obviously he has other prorities I dont think so, if it can happen in the states can happen here For me he comes across as likeable, a lot more than those dinosaurs like yvette cooper Personally I like him. But the sort of voters he needs to attract are people who are only interested in politics fleetingly, if at all. They will look at the colours of Chuka's skin and say 'Not voting for him' - Sad but true in my experience. I think the states and Obama is quite different to here....I really don't think the public would go for a black PM. But then what would happen if sajid javid took over from cameron for next election in 2020, then you would have two non white people running. Would be interesting to see what would happen then on that basis that people vote on skin colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Umana seems to have the most idea of what is required to win. However with UKIP polling 13% - and more in some labour heartlands - I feel the colour of skin would prove an electoral liability. Sadly we are society of closet racists. (thats my thoughts on society, not my own thoughts) Cooper or Kendall for me. I would have liked Dan Jarvis but obviously he has other prorities I dont think so, if it can happen in the states can happen here For me he comes across as likeable, a lot more than those dinosaurs like yvette cooper Personally I like him. But the sort of voters he needs to attract are people who are only interested in politics fleetingly, if at all. They will look at the colours of Chuka's skin and say 'Not voting for him' - Sad but true in my experience. I think the states and Obama is quite different to here....I really don't think the public would go for a black PM. But then what would happen if sajid javid took over from cameron for next election in 2020, then you would have two non white people running. Would be interesting to see what would happen then on that basis that people vote on skin colour but that hasn't happended and IMO is very unlikley to happen. Boris, Osborne and May are next in line. Labour are to loyal to underperforming leaders. David Milliband for example was urged to stand against Gordon Brown whilst he was still PM - but didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure on that Hippo. I might be being hugely naive, but the yanks seem to have some serious race issue going on, yet a black leader was still elected. My own view is there are less people as a % of the population in the UK that would vote purely on skin colour, but I have nothing to back that up, it's just my perception. I would love you to be right...but look at the votes UKIP pulled in ? - immigration is the subject that get people going (even more sadly - I don't actuallly think they mean immigation !!!!) Its a real shame Dan Jarvis isn't standing for leader. I think Labour have a massive job on there hands to even come close in 2020 - I totally agree there is a % who would vote purely on race/colour, I'm just not sure the % is that big to stop someone with a minority background getting elected. Im a bit gutted about Jarvis too. I read up on a few of the proposed candidates and inexperience aside, he seemed to stand out for me. His 'real life' background would have gained a lot of support straight off the bat. Well if you look at the votes UKIP gained in labour seats - you can see how would stop labour winning seats. IMO UKIP is now a wing of the Conservative party designed to hemorage Labour votes. Sure they pretend to be foes in public, but really the Tories are quite happy for UKIP to seize Labour voters - and UKIP will continue to do this as it keeps Labour out and also gives them influence over the Tories The relationship between the Tories and the Kippers is going to be very interesting over the course of the next few years. I agree, there will be some in the party happy to watch Labour and even the Lib Dems lose votes to them. Equally there will be some who are shit scared about the back bench Euro sceptics joining forces with them for a no vote when the referendum comes around. Edited May 13, 2015 by wazzap24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Liz Kendall - trying too hard and it's only May. And also talking a fair amount of bollocks but, fair dos, she sounds like a politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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