The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[tonyh29]

22 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I got to be honest I haven't got a clue what @colhint and @tonyh29 are waffling on about over the last couple of pages. All I have seen in relation to O'Mara and Lavery is condemnation.

In terms of those of us saying it should be put into perspective against things that are happening that are having a dire impact on peoples lives that seems a perfectly rational thing to do.

Of course there is the possibility that me being a Tory hater is making me not see things but this seems like people reading into something that simply isn't there.

 

Waffling .. righto

it went like this ...

Me - quiet in here isn't it , wonder if a labour MP has done anything controversial lately .. wink wink

Labour supporters - Aren't Tories Evil  , etc etc etc

Me and Colhint - hmmm that's kinda weird

 

fwiw , I've never mentioned Lavery or even commented on him

[markavfc40]

24 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Waffling .. righto

it went like this ...

Me - quiet in here isn't it , wonder if a labour MP has done anything controversial lately .. wink wink

Labour supporters - Aren't Tories Evil  , etc etc etc

Me and Colhint - hmmm that's kinda weird

 

fwiw , I've never mentioned Lavery or even commented on him

It didn't quite go like that did it. Posters, both Labour and non Labour supporters, condemned what O'Mara, and Lavery previously, have done and then in relation to O'Mara pointed out that it needs to be put into perspective against other political happenings that are having a dire impact on peoples lives.

These political threads will have a crossover and comments will be made about the other parties. As the master of ah but... you should know that better than anybody 

Edited October 26, 2017 by markavfc40

[TrentVilla]

 

To my mind the stuff someone said a long time ago isn’t really as relevant as the things people are doing right now. That just seems like simple logic to me irrespective of what colour tie they wear.

That isn’t to say that past indiscretions can be ignored or forgotten, but people grow up or at least some do, opinions can change.

I’m fairly sure 20 years ago I said things I wouldn’t now hold to be true or might be embarrassed about were they presented to me.

That clearly though doesn’t seem as important as what I did yesterday, today or will do tomorrow.

There is a phrase about actions and words, seems quite fitting in this instance.

That isn’t a defence of O’Mara, far from it, I just see it as being less important than the increasing number of people living on the streets in the UK every year for the last 6 years.

One makes me shake my head, tut and say “idiot” the other makes me f&£king ashamed of our society.

[PompeyVillan]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

 

Edit-Sorry Mark I didn't mean to quote you. 

 

3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

I guess what they could have done is said , yeah O'Mara is a bit of a  tool  and then tottered off to the Tory thread and pasted their daily   "Tory's are evil " from their clipboard

what they chose to do was reply with something straight out of central office and not even remotely related

I can imagine them down the pub  ...What do you want to drink ? check leftfootforward.com  for appropriate response to question ...... yeah those Torys are all selfish rocket polishers aren't they

 

 

Yes I'm aware the Politics threads have always been that way 

 

 

My first thought was this assertion was somewhat patronising. But on reflection there's something in it. 

I will concede it's probably an accusation I also guilty of myself. I believe that many  people are swayed by the opinion dressed up as fact in much of what I believe to be rabidly pro Neo Liberalist mainstream media. 

However in this instance I'm going to have insist that you call people out rather than generalise (as that is a luxury that I afford only to myself). 

(It's worth noting that it's a underpinning believe of mine that almost every person is full of contradiction in their actions and words).

Edited October 26, 2017 by PompeyVillan

[markavfc40]

@TrentVilla good last post mate. You are treading a thin line though and could well be accused of being in cahoots with others.

[tonyh29]

9 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

@TrentVilla good last post mate. You are treading a thin line though and could well be accused of being in cahoots with others.

Long as he’s not accused of cohorts with others  

[tonyh29]

18 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

My first thought was this assertion was somewhat patronising. But on reflection there's something in it. 

I will concede it's probably an accusation I also guilty of myself. I believe that many  people are swayed by the opinion dressed up as fact in much of what I believe to be rabidly pro Neo Liberalist mainstream media. 

However in this instance I'm going to have insist that you call people out rather than generalise (as that is a luxury that I afford only to myself). 

(It's worth noting that it's a underpinning believe of mine that almost every person is full of contradiction in their actions and words).

It’s not  intended to be patronising fwiw , though my posting style does often result in that accusation being aimed at me .. I guess I could change my style but the other accusation levelled at me is that I’m stubborn , so I probably won’t

i also agree with your last paragraph fwiw 

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by tonyh29

[TrentVilla]

24 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

@TrentVilla good last post mate. You are treading a thin line though and could well be accused of being in cahoots with others.

So long as it’s not one of those filthy Tories

[tonyh29]

51 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

’m fairly sure 20 years ago I said things I wouldn’t now hold to be true or might be embarrassed about were they presented to me.

20 years , get you , it’s more like 20 mins in my case

 

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

So long as it’s not one of those filthy Tories

Holding out for a clean, well-groomed one?

[dAVe80]

Mark Steel in the Independent:

Quote

The Labour Party's got so sexist that Trump and Weinstein will release a joint statement condemning its behaviour

If you were a cynic you might suggest that sometimes the people professing outrage aren’t really all that horrified at all

You can’t blame the Labour Party for letting one of their members, Jared O’Mara, slip through the system and become an MP, even though he made comments online calling gay people “fudgepackers” and women at a club “sexy little slags”.

Because two years ago those in charge of the party went through the Twitter accounts and blogs of every member and anyone who applied to be a member, to find truly disgusting comments that should exclude them from membership, such as “I voted for the Green Party once”, and “At least Jeremy Corbyn didn’t support the war in Iraq”.

And when you’ve employed rooms full of people to stay up all night hunting down filth like that, it’s understandable if they miss the odd “fudgepacker” comment.

Luckily there are other organisations dedicated to rooting out sexism, such as The Sun newspaper. They’ve produced a “rap sheet” detailing the MP’s anti-women record, because if there’s one publication that’s been vigorous in promoting women over the last 40 years, it’s been The Sun, under Rupert “Suffragette” Murdoch.

To start with, what other newspaper has dedicated an entire page every day to a woman?   

The daily editorial meeting at The Sun must be like a student feminist debating society, with the board high-fiving each other because their headline “Towie’s Lauren Pope – NUDE!!!” makes such a powerful statement against patriarchal male domination. Then the sports section all chant “we are women, we are strong” while searching for a photo of Jamie Vardy’s wife in her bra.  

 Similarly, the Conservatives have been faultless in bringing up this story as often as they can, as if anything they’re too vigilant in ensuring their politicians are supportive of women. If they had an MP who, to pick an example at random, boasted he’d never changed a nappy on any of his six children because that was woman’s work according to a divine natural order, he’d be thrown straight out of the party whether he’d been to Eton and had a double-barrelled name or not.

By the weekend Donald Trump and Harvey Weinstein will publish a joint statement complaining that Labour MPs should be ashamed of themselves for disrespecting women like this, and they both demand the Labour Party NEC takes a firm line on this sort of behaviour.

If you were a cynic you might suggest there’s a modern trend to make allegations of sexism, racism and causing offence, as a weapon to attack rival factions in organisations, and sometimes the people professing outrage aren’t really all that horrified at all.

The Ku Klux Klan probably have arguments that go “Peter shouldn’t be allowed to stand as Grand Wizard, because while we were placing a burning cross on a family’s lawn he was overheard making an offensive joke about the Nigerian community, and that’s the sort of thing that can bring white supremacism into ill repute”.

But at least Jared O’Mara kept matters reasonably simple by being unarguably foul. It’s not easy to see what his defence might be for referring to “sexy little slags”, though maybe he was describing some mounds of coal that had formed themselves into a particularly erotic shape.

It may be more complicated with the comment made by MP Clive Lewis, who was overheard saying to a man, “Get on your knees, bitch”.

This was recorded and put online and led to thousands of people shouting, “I was so offended when I clicked onto Youtube and heard someone say something clearly not literally what he meant but said as a jokey character, that I am deeply traumatised and ever since then I can’t eat peanut butter because I’m DISGUSTED”.

What we have to assess, is whether Clive Lewis meant what he said literally. It’s certainly possible he felt a sudden urge to command his friend to get on his knees and act out a subservient role akin to what we might expect from a slave in the Roman Empire, in the middle of a hall in the Labour conference. Or it may be possible he was saying it ironically, in a sort of character.

This is where some people may tend to get more upset than necessary, by taking every comment they hear literally, and out of context. This becomes especially tricky with jokes.

They must spend every Christmas arguing with everyone who reads from a Christmas cracker “how can you say that what’s red and sits in the corner is a naughty strawberry? A strawberry has no sense of behaviour, and if they have then we should seek avenues of integrating the strawberry into a domestic environment and not exclude it by making it sit in a corner”.  

Then they create a list of subjects “you can’t make jokes about”. So you might be told “you can’t make jokes about Hitler”, in which case Charlie Chaplin should never have made The Great Dictator, and during the war, when people sang that Hitler only had one ball, they should all have been made to resign and spend three months on a correctional course.

On Twitter there is no collection of words that won’t be “called out” as offensive by someone. If you call Donald Trump a psychopath, someone will reply “don’t add to the trauma against psychopaths. They’re suffering too, they’ve got nowhere to put their salad as their fridge is full of heads. Think about that next time please.”

And possibly the most troubling aspect of this modern obsession with permanent offence is that it damages the genuine causes they claim to be in aid of.

Because the old-fashioned way of campaigning was to emphasise unity and sticking together, but now there’s a new fun way, in which you work tirelessly to find points of disagreement, until you refuse to appear in the same room as someone else, because they use a different word for transgender squirrels, the fascists.

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by dAVe80

[TrentVilla]

25 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Holding out for a clean, well-groomed one?

Dirty and well-groomed is fine by me...

 

[snowychap]

13 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Dirty and well-groomed is fine by me...

 

Blimey, they come in all sorts nowadays.

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Blimey, they come in all sorts nowadays.

He's always come in all sorts 

[snowychap]

1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

He's always come in all sorts 

Ooh, Bertie.

[Seat68]

I am not really outraged by what a man said on a forum 10 years ago. I just voiced my condemnation so people, you know, people wouldnt say the left haven't condemned him. 

[bickster]

That bottom tweet encapsulates exactly why the man is an idiot. There’s plenty of taxi co-operatives out there now, most of them are the worst taxi firms in terms of service to the public... because the drivers decide what they will and won’t do. Drivers would also restrict numbers and strangle their own business quite happily just so long as they thought they were securing their own income (which they actually wouldn’t be)

 

[TrentVilla]

30 minutes ago, bickster said:

That bottom tweet encapsulates exactly why the man is an idiot. There’s plenty of taxi co-operatives out there now, most of them are the worst taxi firms in terms of service to the public... because the drivers decide what they will and won’t do. Drivers would also restrict numbers and strangle their own business quite happily just so long as they thought they were securing their own income (which they actually wouldn’t be)

 

I feel this post threatens the very existence of Diane Abbott. If Diane Abbott’s purpose on this earth isn’t to demonstrate that Corbyn is an idiot then surely she has no purpose, this can’t be allowed to happen. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

That bottom tweet encapsulates exactly why the man is an idiot. There’s plenty of taxi co-operatives out there now, most of them are the worst taxi firms in terms of service to the public... because the drivers decide what they will and won’t do. Drivers would also restrict numbers and strangle their own business quite happily just so long as they thought they were securing their own income (which they actually wouldn’t be)

 

Co-operatives aren't a bad idea at all but it all depends on where and how they are applied. This is just an example of his utopian 'thinking'.

[Xann]

The freight company opposite my work is a co-operative.

Their morale and work ethic contrast markedly with the other businesses on site.

No foreign labour on the cheap either.