chrisp65 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: I haven't heard the thing on the radio or seen anything else other than just having a look on The Beeb's front page (saw nothing) BBC front page has 'Corbyn: cap maximum earnings' click that for this Quote A spokesman said Mr Corbyn had "misspoke" during a BBC interview in which he said he personally favoured a limit on maximum earnings. I've been watching it sporadically through the day. The message from Corbyn and Labour has morphed through the day. From this morning's maximum wage, to versions of sorts of pay ratios and workers remuneration committee. They've had as much time as they wanted to model a speech and a message on any subject they wanted. It ('it' being either the message or his ability to deliver a message) didn't survive beyond 8:00 a.m. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: BBC front page has 'Corbyn: cap maximum earnings' Not here, it don't. It says," Immigration is not too high - Corbyn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villaglint Posted January 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I can't believe he actually said that. I mean, I know you're not lying, and I've seen it reported elsewhere, but it just boggles the mind. Such stupidity is like trying to grasp the size of the universe, it's easier to just give up than try to understand. I'll console myself by imagining Malcolm Tucker listening to the interview on the radio. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 51 minutes ago, snowychap said: Not here, it don't. It says," Immigration is not too high - Corbyn". The same BBC that's the only news organisation to be exempt from Section 40. Just throwing that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 It's a sad and worrying time that the person sent to Newsnight to defend Corbyn today is Shami Chakrabarti. I like Shami and, on the whole, what she has to say but she is an unelected, parachuted-in former home office lawyer who might not be the obviously best conduit between the new labour party and a disenfranchised electorate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 It's actually quite sad to observe. The obvious, cowardly, forelock-tugging prostration of the media before fhe agenda of those who control our information channels. It starts with little groups of advisers, discussing how to frame tomorrow's news agenda. It progresses to setting out the lines that must be sold. Media types are briefed, those who play the game will be rewarded tomorrow or next week or next month with an exclusive, those who don't comply will be gradually frozen out (the yanks do it quicker and nastier than us). It ends with people who call themselves journalists relaying, uncritically and without comment, the soundbites the manipulators want us to hear. The Corbyn story today is an example, I say this as a member of a party which opposes him and his party in contested elections. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) I like her as well, but this late change in career leaves a poor taste for me. EDIT: re Shami. Edited January 10, 2017 by HanoiVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: BBC front page has 'Corbyn: cap maximum earnings' click that for this I've been watching it sporadically through the day. The message from Corbyn and Labour has morphed through the day. From this morning's maximum wage, to versions of sorts of pay ratios and workers remuneration committee. They've had as much time as they wanted to model a speech and a message on any subject they wanted. It ('it' being either the message or his ability to deliver a message) didn't survive beyond 8:00 a.m. Yes, that's interesting. Why was it not possible to convey a simple and clear message about control of top pay and limits on pay differentials. Well of course it was. Was the problem a) after 40 years of making this argument, Corbyn still can't explain it, or b ) some people want to misrepresent his views? Hmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I guess there's a slightly larger than core team involved in this and they haven't all had exactly the same view on the subject. They've compromised on an approach and a wording that suited everyone but it only survived as long as the first tricky question. Pure speculation on my part. But Baroness Chakrabati was on Newsnight and gave a fairly decent account of herself and how the day went. She was selling the idea that his lack of a slick delivery is about to be marketed as part of his charm. Trump without the pussy grabbing spastic impressions. Newsnight tried to side swipe her with a new graphic that showed the pay differential has actually come down to a point lower than under Bliar. Thinking on her feet, she looked at it and pointed out that coming down from 34 times salary, through 33 times salary to 31 times salary didn't make much difference if the guy at the base of the chart can't afford somewhere to live. It's a shit graphic. It should count all the way down to 1, to truly illustrate the pay difference. if you're going to be a graphic, show the issue. She rumbled it in seconds. She did quite well. They'll have to double down on discrediting her. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 She's no idiot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: They'll have to double down on discrediting her. Tbf with her joining the Labour Party days before chairing an independent enquiry and the subsequent peerage for whitewashing the same enquiry , I don't think they even need to bother I'm sure it didn't really play out like that but that seems to be how it's reported when I looked on google just now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 11, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2017 11 hours ago, peterms said: It's actually quite sad to observe. The obvious, cowardly, forelock-tugging prostration of the media before fhe agenda of those who control our information channels. It starts with little groups of advisers, discussing how to frame tomorrow's news agenda. It progresses to setting out the lines that must be sold. Media types are briefed, those who play the game will be rewarded tomorrow or next week or next month with an exclusive, those who don't comply will be gradually frozen out (the yanks do it quicker and nastier than us). That's a massive cop put. There are plenty of politicians with fewer resources at their disposal, with no media training, who are entirely capable of putting across a clear intelligible consistent message, despite alleged media hostility or shenanigans. Corbyn is incompetent. Nicola sturgeon, Caroline lucas, kezia dugdale, the previous labour front bench, Chami etc are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Sections of his own party, especially those with privileged access to the media, are briefing against him as part of a long and cafefully planned campaign to bring him down. It's part of a struggle that's been going on for many years. Once the media are fed a line about the message being unclear, or suggestions of divided views among the shadow cabinet, that becomes the story. The media are easily manipulated in this way. Corbyn is far from being the most polished or professional media performer, but the cop-out is failing to recognise the deliberate and systematic undermining that is bappening, and the way the media eagerly play to it rather than uncovering what is happening and discussing it. It would be newsworthy and illuminating to hear an account from a journo about the secret briefings they get, and some discussion about what lies behind it, but that would mean the end of any more briefings for them: so they go along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 11, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2017 Any actual evidence of this though or is it just theory? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 11, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2017 Corbyn is given a hard time by the media, but he loads the bullets for them, and is incapable of fighting against it. If I believed there was some nefarious campaign against him, and I really believed in the man, I'd like to think I'd be on the streets with placards and likeminded people. Same goes for all the death of democracy stuff I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Obviously, if you want to change the world, you're going to have to start on the enemy's terrain. The 'nefariousness' of the media should always have been priced in. They were never in a million years going to like him or give him anything less than a very hard time, but he could have handled things so much better. Look at Donald Trump for an example of a man who was constantly criticised by the media, yet turned the media's own weaknesses into his strengths. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, peterms said: Sections of his own party, especially those with privileged access to the media, are briefing against him as part of a long and cafefully planned campaign to bring him down. It's part of a struggle that's been going on for many years. Once the media are fed a line about the message being unclear, or suggestions of divided views among the shadow cabinet, that becomes the story. The media are easily manipulated in this way. Corbyn is far from being the most polished or professional media performer, but the cop-out is failing to recognise the deliberate and systematic undermining that is bappening, and the way the media eagerly play to it rather than uncovering what is happening and discussing it. It would be newsworthy and illuminating to hear an account from a journo about the secret briefings they get, and some discussion about what lies behind it, but that would mean the end of any more briefings for them: so they go along with it. Even if the above is true; the need for it, and any further attempts by the media to undermine Corbyn are rendered completely unnecessary as soon as he opens his mouth. There was no need to underhandedly misrepresent anything yesterday. The leader of the Labour Party, at a time when the government is in disarray over Brexit, thought it would be a good idea to have some high brow chat about a cap on earnings. The bloke is not fit for the position he's in. He needs to realise that he's not in charge of a polytechnic debating society and act accordingly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) In today's world charisma gets you about 90% of the way, strategy 9%, policies 1%. Corbyn is very much a politician of yesteryear. The left is still fighting those old battles because they have no answer to today's problems. Edited January 11, 2017 by villaglint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: Any actual evidence of this though or is it just theory? Evidence that his own party are briefing against him? Seriously? Or that there is a campaign by people in the Labour Party to bring him down? Again, are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 11 hours ago, snowychap said: It's a sad and worrying time that the person sent to Newsnight to defend Corbyn today is Shami Chakrabarti. I like Shami and, on the whole, what she has to say but she is an unelected, parachuted-in former home office lawyer who might not be the obviously best conduit between the new labour party and a disenfranchised electorate. Agreed but could it be she was the only one who would do it ? If you are a serving Labour MP then trying to make sense of your own leader's policies is career suicide surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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