The ISIS threat to Europe

[snowychap]

3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

It would be pretty ironic to "play by the rules" where ISIS are concerned. 2 can play at that game.

It wouldn't be 'ironic' at all. Unless you're going to introduce some irony in to proceedings.

[Shaw_nuff]

23 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I'd agree they are in the majority non-practising. But 10% of the UK adult population are signed up members of churches. In 2012 almost 300 new churches opened in London alone.

I think the issue here, is that most people presume their view of the world is 'normal' Most people would think their view of the world is correct. If they didn't, they'd change their mind. But the trouble with presuming 'I am right', is that this can sometimes also be interpreted as 'they must be wrong'.

I think it's a bit too easy to be rude and off hand on the 'net. I'd never call somebody mental because they don't agree with my view of the world. It's actually a bit disrespectful to people with actual mental illnesses too if we're going the full PC on this.

We may have strayed down a side alley here.

I believe some of this was fairly aimed at me.

I don't think it's straying at all. I think its highly relevant.

The west rightly believe that these guys are nutters because they think they'll end up with 42 virgins after ascending to heaven on a winged horse. But who are people like Blair and Bush to judge if they think they can 'talk' to God via prayer and that a stinking dead man rose after 3 days?

If this world is to survive and kick on then we need to do this by dragging it into the 21st century and that means getting rid of the medieval mind-poison that is religion. We can only do that by setting an example. 'Christians' dropping bombs on Muslims will only be construed as a crusade.

[Wainy316]

Donald Trump has called for all Muslims to be banned from travelling to the United States. Surely there's not a chance he could become Republican leader is there?

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

The sad thing is he is hardly an exception in the current Republican party. Other candidates have said similarly distasteful shite. The American Right is a scary beast.

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, Wainy316 said:

Donald Trump has called for all Muslims to be banned from travelling to the United States. Surely there's not a chance he could become Republican leader is there?

He had previously called for Muslims already in the country to be placed on a government list. How long before he suggests roundups and camps?

[maqroll]

4 hours ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

The sad thing is he is hardly an exception in the current Republican party. Other candidates have said similarly distasteful shite. The American Right is a scary beast.

I only hope they veer so far to the right, that the electorate rejects them. It's worked the last two elections.

Edited December 8, 2015 by maqroll

[MrDuck]

[villakram]

Related to the above mentioned dumbfookery is an essay that I saw somewhere today (maybe Krugman's NYT stuff). I recommend reading this if you wish to have some understanding of conspiracy germ and the human mind.

The Paranoid Style in American Politics, Hofstadrer 1964 via Harpers magazine. 

E.g., circa 1820 "... The anti-Masonic movement was a product not merely of natural enthusiasm but also of the vicissitudes of party politics. It was joined and used by a great many men who did not fully share its original anti-Masonic feelings. It attracted the support of several reputable statemen who had only mild sympathy with its fundamental bias, but who as politicians could not afford to ignore it. Still, it was a folk movement of considerable power, and the rural enthusiasts who provided its real impetus believed in it wholeheartedly."

http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/

[villakram]

4 hours ago, Shaw_nuff said:

I believe some of this was fairly aimed at me.

I don't think it's straying at all. I think its highly relevant.

The west rightly believe that these guys are nutters because they think they'll end up with 42 virgins after ascending to heaven on a winged horse. But who are people like Blair and Bush to judge if they think they can 'talk' to God via prayer and that a stinking dead man rose after 3 days?

If this world is to survive and kick on then we need to do this by dragging it into the 21st century and that means getting rid of the medieval mind-poison that is religion. We can only do that by setting an example. 'Christians' dropping bombs on Muslims will only be construed as a crusade.

So the war criminal Blair was on CNBC over here this morn. Now being the business channel, the interviews and comments made here are generally a little more insightful and less PR sludge. To his credit, he made a really good point, emphasizing the need to promote education in the mid-east... but education in a proper format in place of the super-religious indoctrination that occurs in all the Wahabbi financed mosque-schools throughout anywhere they can get away with it. This is exactly what is needed... education + education + education + time - bombs =

Now of course, dear Tony forgot to mention his love affair with those rascal Saudi's, e.g., squishing of the Al-Yamamah investigation: "Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is vitally important for our country in terms of ... That strategic interest comes first.". When in power, he did exactly nothing to tackle this issue, and do not for one minute think this current situation came into being courtesy of ISIS. A scumbag of the highest order. How these people have the neck to comment on this region given the blood they've spilled...

and to finish by more directly connecting to the quoted post, the amount of God bless... blah blah blah coming from Obama's mouth during his terrorism speech last night was truly dismaying.

[Xann]

[blandy]

13 hours ago, villakram said:

the actions of the British government are illegal in terms of international law, just as those of the USA, France and Israel in bombing the nation state of Syria

Er....the government of Israel does many appalling things, but they ain't bombing Syria. (unless you know different?)

[islingtonclaret]

I am learning many surprising things from this two year debacle. Firstly, Turkey is being led by an absolute insane bunch of hypocritical berks. I didn't know quite how bad it was. Secondly, I didn't realise quite how screwed Libya was, and how dangerous it is sitting at the moment - ripe for a proper IS expansion.

I think the moral of the the last 15 years of stories for "Western" culture is: if there's a despot dictator in a Middle Eastern or North African state, leave them alone and mind your own bloody business and let them sort it out themselves.

[Shaw_nuff]

2 hours ago, islingtonclaret said:

I am learning many surprising things from this two year debacle. Firstly, Turkey is being led by an absolute insane bunch of hypocritical berks. I didn't know quite how bad it was. Secondly, I didn't realise quite how screwed Libya was, and how dangerous it is sitting at the moment - ripe for a proper IS expansion.

I think the moral of the the last 15 years of stories for "Western" culture is: if there's a despot dictator in a Middle Eastern or North African state, leave them alone and mind your own bloody business and let them sort it out themselves.

Spot on. The thing is, these areas are incredibly tribal. The one thing that unites them is their hatred of the west and our governments are doing there utmost to fuel this. Let them get on with it and they'll happily go back to kicking the crap out of each other again.

But what we want and TPTB want are two different things.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

What do TPTB want?

[Marka Ragnos]

14 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

Donald Trump has called for all Muslims to be banned from travelling to the United States. Surely there's not a chance he could become Republican leader is there?

Oh, no, it's very possible. Much depends on the religious right. As scary and hated as American right-wing "born agains" will be to many Europeans, they may be all that stands between the world and a Trump win:

Quote

The GOP establishment doesn’t need to win Iowa — it just needs Trump to lose. And the establishment may have to rely on an old frenemy to make that happen: born-again and evangelical Christians.

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Marka Ragnos

[Awol]

16 hours ago, Shaw_nuff said:

The west rightly believe that these guys are nutters because they think they'll end up with 42 virgins after ascending to heaven on a winged horse. But who are people like Blair and Bush to judge if they think they can 'talk' to God via prayer and that a stinking dead man rose after 3 days?

I don't think it matters very much what people believe until that belief starts impacting on others.  The west think ISIS are dangerous nutters because of what they do, not because of what they believe. The fact most Indians believe in an eight limbed god with the head of an elephant (apologies to Hindus if that's wrong, I'm a bit sketchy on the details) matters not a fart to the "west" because it causes no harm to us. It would be the same with the more interesting claims made by Muslims if it didn't involve slaughtering large amounts of people to garner those imagined rewards.

The basic Christian message is 'be nice to people' and personally I don't find that incredibly offensive or deranged, particularly as the religion has matured and ditched the hell-fire and brimstone parp from the Old Testament. I certainly don't think you can fairly discard the opinions of such people on everything else or question their mental faculties as a result of holding those beliefs. 

[omariqy]

My wife's sister-in-law who is 9 months pregnant just got called a terrorist in Tesco's in Leytonstone.

[islingtonclaret]

5 minutes ago, omariqy said:

My wife's sister-in-law who is 9 months pregnant just got called a terrorist in Tesco's in Leytonstone.

Well that's lovely.

Good to see the wheels of perpetual stupidity are turning.

[villakram]

7 hours ago, blandy said:

Er....the government of Israel does many appalling things, but they ain't bombing Syria. (unless you know different?)

Maybe some confusion on your part caused by me. I am not suggesting that Israel are bombing Syria on a regular basis ala the "heroic" Yanks/Rooskies etc., but their airforce have bombed targets in Syria on a number of occasions over the past couple of years... allegedly in the name of preventing weapons transfer to Lebanon. Now, I say allegedly, because this came from some military/political PR type. This is public record... and, errr a quick google suggests they're even up to it as we speak.

[Marka Ragnos]

35 minutes ago, omariqy said:

My wife's sister-in-law who is 9 months pregnant just got called a terrorist in Tesco's in Leytonstone.

Sickening. Sorry to hear.