pacbuddies Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But the money is tight because the owner chooses it to be. Look how much you get for each position in the league now, the money spent on replacing lambert could be gained through performing better than he will. Money is tight because we're not allowed to overspend anymore, FFP. So we spend £4m+ on getting rid of Lambert, then we have to pay off the contract of the next manager, providing we don't employ Pulis or another out-of-work manager. That could be a minimum of £4m. That's £8m gone, without even spending a penny on the new managers wages. Then he'd want his own team, say we give him £8m in January. We've just spent £24 million pounds to get a new manager, and give him £8m in transfer (AND WAGES) funds. You really think we'll be any better off? Also, where's that £24m coming from? We'd have to finish about 5/6 places higher than where we are currently to even break even! You mean we would have to finish in the lofty heights of mid table. Phew, that's a tall order! Realistically, how much higher do you expect to finish with a new manager and £8m investment? Expectations and reality are completely separate things. Expectation is all any of us have. Neither you nor anyone else can guarantee the reality. Mid table was many peoples expectation at the start of the season with the squad we have so I think it is not unreasonable that a decent manager could achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Is Moyes still on the Man U payroll earning silly money or did he get a fixed sum when he was fired? (As always I rather we looked outside the UK if we're hiring a new manager) might be wrong but I dont think any foreign manager with no UK mnagerial experience has ever saved a team in a relegation battle on a mid season appointment. look at Solskjaer and Magath last season Pocahontas at Southampton did. This is a myth, Southampton weren't on the verge of going down, they had some very good results under Atkins before he was sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I thought this was the 'Lambert - Out' thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Expectation is all any of us have. Neither you nor anyone else can guarantee the reality. Mid table was many peoples expectation at the start of the season with the squad we have so I think it is not unreasonable that a decent manager could achieve it. You do know we're only 3 points of being 8th right? That's even higher than mid-table! And you do know we've played most of last seasons top 8 clubs recently? That post made me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 29, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted October 29, 2014 He's gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Expectation is all any of us have. Neither you nor anyone else can guarantee the reality. Mid table was many peoples expectation at the start of the season with the squad we have so I think it is not unreasonable that a decent manager could achieve it. You do know we're only 3 points of being 8th right? That's even higher than mid-table! And you do know we've played most of last seasons top 8 clubs recently? That post made me You do know that we have lost 5 games on the bounce conceding 13 goals and scoring 0? You do know that with 4 goals scored we are the lowest scoring team in the Premiership? You do know that Lambert has shown over the last 2 seasons that he is not capable of getting the results required to finish much higher than just outside the relegation zone? We can all come up with great one liners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 He's gay? Well if he is he wouldn't score! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 When you work out the cost of relegation then Lerner would be delighted to write that cheque for 24m to sort it all out, like he did before with Bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm increasingly starting to believe that this is what some posters are seeing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Expectation is all any of us have. Neither you nor anyone else can guarantee the reality. Mid table was many peoples expectation at the start of the season with the squad we have so I think it is not unreasonable that a decent manager could achieve it. You do know we're only 3 points of being 8th right? That's even higher than mid-table! And you do know we've played most of last seasons top 8 clubs recently? That post made me You do know that we have lost 5 games on the bounce conceding 13 goals and scoring 0? You do know that with 4 goals scored we are the lowest scoring team in the Premiership? You do know that Lambert has shown over the last 2 seasons that he is not capable of getting the results required to finish much higher than just outside the relegation zone? We can all come up with great one liners! Regardless, we're still 3 points from 8th, having played most of the best teams last year. Likewise we're 2 points from 18th, but again, we've played most of last years top 8 teams last year, so your point is less valid than mine. Wait until Xmas, and between me and you, we're likely to us sitting somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But it's a fact that the top half teams have more possession over the course of a season so it clearly has an effect long term. Is that a fact? Swansea were equal 2nd (56%) for possession last season and finished with 42 points (12th). Atletico averaged 49% possesion (10th) and finished with 90 points (1st). Better teams tend to have more possession but they also tend to have more expensive players and we're not a better team. I'm not saying that possession is entirely irrelevant but, depending on your style of play, more possession won't necessarily mean more points. Who would you rather watch Swansea or us? The biggest reason for me Lambert Has to go is the football is awful. Watching Villa is not fun. Last season was a chore and this season looks like it's going to go the same way. If we can't challenge at least play entertaining stuff. People use the budget as a reason to keep him but that doesn't excuse crap football. There are plenty of teams with worse squads that play better stuff. Who's fault is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Lapal what do you expect from this season and next? What do you think our future is under Lambert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm increasingly starting to believe that this is what some posters are seeing You could be right. The trouble is we see something very similar every season. Not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm increasingly starting to believe that this is what some posters are seeing TBF Lapal (and I class you as one of the most sensible reasoned posters on VT) most of those people raising concerns about Lambert are not just looking at the league table from this year, in fact its a minor part of it. As others are starting to detail, and there many more, its the performances to date over the 2 1/2 years he has been in charge that are raising the alarm on him. It's the way the club is being run at a football level that we can discuss around Lambert and he has been consistently poor with little evidence of any sort of plan and sustained improvement. So to accuse people of being shirt sighted somewhat and looking only at the past few matches and current league table is somewhat off the mark IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But it's a fact that the top half teams have more possession over the course of a season so it clearly has an effect long term. Is that a fact? Swansea were equal 2nd (56%) for possession last season and finished with 42 points (12th). Atletico averaged 49% possesion (10th) and finished with 90 points (1st). Better teams tend to have more possession but they also tend to have more expensive players and we're not a better team. I'm not saying that possession is entirely irrelevant but, depending on your style of play, more possession won't necessarily mean more points. It's not based on the team with the highest possession finished first. But the top half are mainly made up from teams have have the higher possession stats. I believe this has been the case for a good few years as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Lapal what do you expect from this season and next? What do you think our future is under Lambert? Cool question. This season? I expect us to be around 13th/14th at the end of the season. I think we'll have spells where we're looking over our shoulders (due to teams below us picking up points here and there) and we'll have spells where we'll be hoping that we can catch teams in 10th, but ultimately fail (because we'll pick up points here and there). Next season? If we haven't been sold (God, I hope we do), then I expect exactly the same, maybe with a little investment on 1 or 2 players, we could reach the dizzy heights of 10th. If we have been sold next summer - I'd expect us to go for a manager with a good reputation, invest good money and expect a top 10 finish straight away. I agree with everyone who says we're playing pants football, believe me, I do. But I honestly think, in our current situation, we can expect nothing more than survival, which we have done. And what comes with "just surviving"? Weekends upon weekend of misery, frustration, anger and the very occasional "PHEW!", when we pick up a win. That's what I expect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's fair enough, I'm probably on the same page in regards expectations then. I'm just so bored of it all I want a change, something to get me interested again. Maybe its not financially viable, maybe its too big a gamble. But I need something, I'm falling out of love fast, not just with villa but football on the whole. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm increasingly starting to believe that this is what some posters are seeing TBF Lapal (and I class you as one of the most sensible reasoned posters on VT) most of those people raising concerns about Lambert are not just looking at the league table from this year, in fact its a minor part of it. As others are starting to detail, and there many more, its the performances to date over the 2 1/2 years he has been in charge that are raising the alarm on him. It's the way the club is being run at a football level that we can discuss around Lambert and he has been consistently poor with little evidence of any sort of plan and sustained improvement. So to accuse people of being shirt sighted somewhat and looking only at the past few matches and current league table is somewhat off the mark IMO I agree! I started a post yesterday about the complete lack of movement in the team, which I firmly believe is leading us to both concede and not score. I was referring to more recent discussions Mr Drat. I agree Lambert is at fault for setting up teams and tactics, completely. But we're a club with so many problems, to single Lambert out, and not think of a solution, and say we're in dire straits, when really, we've had some really difficult fixtures this last few weeks, and we're still only 3 points from 8th place. I don't think after losing 2-0 against QPR is really the time to create Lambert Out threads. But thanks for calling me sensible, doesn't happen too often! I, like every other Villa fan, would be over the moon with a good team, to cheer on. I was on the pitch when we beat Blackburn to reach the Carling Cup final a few years ago and it was fantastic. We all want what's best for Villa, but at the moment, I think a lot of fans need to consider that Lambert is the tip of the proverbial ice-berg when it comes to Villas problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 He's gay? Well if he is he wouldn't score! Alright dad. That's enough internet for you today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's fair enough, I'm probably on the same page in regards expectations then. I'm just so bored of it all I want a change, something to get me interested again. Maybe its not financially viable, maybe its too big a gamble. But I need something, I'm falling out of love fast, not just with villa but football on the whole. Jonah, trust me, I'm absolutely not happy in the slightest at the minute. I've really enjoyed talking with you today, it's been good fun. We're all hurting and pissed off, I guess it's just how we justify it and I believe in the future, we'll all come full circle and start moaning that we can ONLY finish 6th for the 3rd season in a row again! Oh how I long for those heady days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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