DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It is most certainly not worth gambling. It would be madness sacking and paying off a Lambert who just signed a new contract at any time before the end of the season while the club remain outside the relegation zone. Who cares about paying lambert? Do you honestly think that money would go on players anyway? Is just surviving all you care about? I mean I want to stay in the league but there has to be something more than just surviving and playing the worst football in the league. There has to be something to actually look forward to, a plan, a style, an ambition of some sort. And I don't think we will go down under lambert who is under performing so I don't think it would be much of a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 29, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted October 29, 2014 I don't think we should sack him. If we were not for sale, and the owner had backed him properly in the transfer market and allowed him to be competetive with wages then he would and should have been sacked already. Losing 5 without scoring is shit, don't get me wrong, it's horrible form and it's hard to see a way back out of this particular hole and we're not 10 games in to the season. We will not attract the manager we need if we sack Paul Lambert, not with the situation as it is off the field. We need someone to do all the things Lambert has been saying he's trying to do, long term project based on youth to become competitive again. Which young talented manager is going to want to try that out with us? Especially when you add in the fact that they will not be able to compete with more than half the league on wages and nearly all of the league in terms of transfer spending. Really think we could attract someone young with the the talent and drive to pull that off? Pulis could keep us up, but do little else for us, which to be fair to Lambert is what he's been doing. Moyes, well who knows, but I doubt he'd want to start again from where he was when he first went to Everton. Who else is there that would realistically come? We have lots of problems at the moment but the biggest problem is not Lambert IMO. I think the biggest problem is that we are for sale and as such are in limbo. Until we resolve that things aren't likely to get massively better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It is most certainly not worth gambling. It would be madness sacking and paying off a Lambert who just signed a new contract at any time before the end of the season while the club remain outside the relegation zone. Who cares about paying lambert? Do you honestly think that money would go on players anyway? Is just surviving all you care about? I mean I want to stay in the league but there has to be something more than just surviving and playing the worst football in the league. There has to be something to actually look forward to, a plan, a style, an ambition of some sort. And I don't think we will go down under lambert who is under performing so I don't think it would be much of a gamble. I am absolutely full of confidence we'll not be in a relegation battle this season, we will post our highest points tally in past 4 seasons and we'll end between 10-15th place. While we have the club up for sale that is what I care about this season. A better league finish than the past 3 seasons. Nothing more than that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 All over the moon after the first 4 games, 10 points amazing stuff. We lose the next 4 very tough games. People are back on the managers back ... Not true, really - there were a lot of people concerned about the lack of creativity, possession and chances but they were shouted SCOREBOARD at. Same thing happened last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It is most certainly not worth gambling. It would be madness sacking and paying off a Lambert who just signed a new contract at any time before the end of the season while the club remain outside the relegation zone. Who cares about paying lambert? Do you honestly think that money would go on players anyway? Is just surviving all you care about? I mean I want to stay in the league but there has to be something more than just surviving and playing the worst football in the league. There has to be something to actually look forward to, a plan, a style, an ambition of some sort. And I don't think we will go down under lambert who is under performing so I don't think it would be much of a gamble. It's easy to gamble and assume things with other peoples money though Jonah.. Would you cough up anything to get rid of him? If Lerner came out tomorrow and said, we'll sack Lambert, providing the fans pay his salary, we wouldn't get anywhere near the investment to pay his contract off. You can blame Lerner/Fox for his new contract, but that's not what we're talking about. You seem to not realise how tight Villas money is and that every penny we receive is probably already accounted for. Where are villa going to get £4,000,000 from to sack someone, with no outstanding candidate? £££ is the be all and end all now a days, and with Lerner not willing to use his personal funds to bail us out, we need to be very savvy with whatever money we can get our hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I don't think we should sack him right now but giving him a new deal when we did was a bit premature. I'd like to give him until Christmas with a run of games where hopefully we get the back 5 together again and Benteke fit. If we fail to improve then I think he's had long enough, time for new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Gotta love how fickle football fans are. Why? Not sure what the fans have done wrong. All over the moon after the first 4 games, 10 points amazing stuff. We lose the next 4 very tough games. People are back on the managers back So the entire decision on him rests on just one away match against QPR. 4 great results, 4 bad results. This is the decider, this one game against QPR. Am I happy we are past the run of bad games with a result or am I out for the managers head on a spike. It all comes down to that one game...... Who was 'all over the moon'? When did we have 4 great results? We had 4 results that gained us 10 points but the word 'great' should not be associated with any of those games. We were awful at home to Newcastle and not much better at home to Hull (neither team is what anyone would call top notch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Gotta love how fickle football fans are. Especially ours. As was evident from the way that the vast majority wanted him gone last season only to then u-turn during the summer and after a few good results at the beginning of the season. I did literally cringe when 'Paul Lambert's claret and blue army' was back being sung after the third game. I know, it's hilarious. Look people like to moan when things are bad and sing praises when things are good. Especially villa fans, we are easily the most fickle fans in the league. Just don't take peoples opinions too seriously when things are good or things are bad, the reality is somewhere in between. I take it you consider your opinion above the hilarious fickle rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Not true, really - there were a lot of people concerned about the lack of creativity, possession and chances but they were shouted SCOREBOARD at. We dominated possession and chances against QPR. Are the a lot of people happier with that or would they rather we protected leads with men behind the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But the money is tight because the owner chooses it to be. Look how much you get for each position in the league now, the money spent on replacing lambert could be gained through performing better than he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It is most certainly not worth gambling. It would be madness sacking and paying off a Lambert who just signed a new contract at any time before the end of the season while the club remain outside the relegation zone. Who cares about paying lambert? Do you honestly think that money would go on players anyway? Is just surviving all you care about? I mean I want to stay in the league but there has to be something more than just surviving and playing the worst football in the league. There has to be something to actually look forward to, a plan, a style, an ambition of some sort. And I don't think we will go down under lambert who is under performing so I don't think it would be much of a gamble. I am absolutely full of confidence we'll not be in a relegation battle this season, we will post our highest points tally in past 4 seasons and we'll end between 10-15th place. While we have the club up for sale that is what I care about this season. A better league finish than the past 3 seasons. Nothing more than that. While i don't share your confidence. Then what? What's the future under lambert? I'd put up with shit football and poor results if I thought it would be completely different in the future. But what's happened over the last few years to indicate that is a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Not true, really - there were a lot of people concerned about the lack of creativity, possession and chances but they were shouted SCOREBOARD at. We dominated possession and chances against QPR. Are the a lot of people happier with that or would they rather we protected leads with men behind the ball? QPR scored 2 goals and hit the bar. While we had a few long range efforts i'm not sure how you can say we dominated the chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 QPR scored 2 goals and hit the bar. While we had a few long range efforts i'm not sure how you can say we dominated the chances. It was a parody of earlier comments based on the fact we had 15 shots to 11, 6 to 4 on target and had 65% possession. Similar stats but the opposite way around to when we were actually winning against teams like Hull. We didn't actually dominate anything, we went behind early and couldn't claw our way back. Same as Hull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 maybe but some people were taking stats a few weeks ago as the be all ans end all and fact is we had more chances and possession than QPR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think some people mis read what's meant when people put importance on stats. I certainly don't think its the be all and end all. But it's a fact that the top half teams have more possession over the course of a season so it clearly has an effect long term. I also said in a different thread that it's this type of dismissal of things like possession for just results that have meant we haven't progressed or grown as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But the money is tight because the owner chooses it to be. Look how much you get for each position in the league now, the money spent on replacing lambert could be gained through performing better than he will. Money is tight because we're not allowed to overspend anymore, FFP. So we spend £4m+ on getting rid of Lambert, then we have to pay off the contract of the next manager, providing we don't employ Pulis or another out-of-work manager. That could be a minimum of £4m. That's £8m gone, without even spending a penny on the new managers wages. Then he'd want his own team, say we give him £8m in January. We've just spent £24 million pounds to get a new manager, and give him £8m in transfer (AND WAGES) funds. You really think we'll be any better off? Also, where's that £24m coming from? We'd have to finish about 5/6 places higher than where we are currently to even break even! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I really do think we'd be better off. And while FFP is an issue i'd say we're currently under spending when you look at other teams in the premier league so i don't believe we cam't afford to sack him. Also i think it would be very stupid, given the club is for sale, to not have some sort of clause in the contract. I'd be amazed if we really had to pay out for the whole 4 years if we were to get rid of lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But the money is tight because the owner chooses it to be. Look how much you get for each position in the league now, the money spent on replacing lambert could be gained through performing better than he will. Money is tight because we're not allowed to overspend anymore, FFP. So we spend £4m+ on getting rid of Lambert, then we have to pay off the contract of the next manager, providing we don't employ Pulis or another out-of-work manager. That could be a minimum of £4m. That's £8m gone, without even spending a penny on the new managers wages. Then he'd want his own team, say we give him £8m in January. We've just spent £24 million pounds to get a new manager, and give him £8m in transfer (AND WAGES) funds. You really think we'll be any better off? Also, where's that £24m coming from? We'd have to finish about 5/6 places higher than where we are currently to even break even! You mean we would have to finish in the lofty heights of mid table. Phew, that's a tall order! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) But it's a fact that the top half teams have more possession over the course of a season so it clearly has an effect long term. Is that a fact? Swansea were equal 2nd (56%) for possession last season and finished with 42 points (12th). Atletico averaged 49% possesion (10th) and finished with 90 points (1st). Better teams tend to have more possession but they also tend to have more expensive players and we're not a better team. I'm not saying that possession is entirely irrelevant but, depending on your style of play, more possession won't necessarily mean more points. Edited October 29, 2014 by ArteSuave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But the money is tight because the owner chooses it to be. Look how much you get for each position in the league now, the money spent on replacing lambert could be gained through performing better than he will. Money is tight because we're not allowed to overspend anymore, FFP. So we spend £4m+ on getting rid of Lambert, then we have to pay off the contract of the next manager, providing we don't employ Pulis or another out-of-work manager. That could be a minimum of £4m. That's £8m gone, without even spending a penny on the new managers wages. Then he'd want his own team, say we give him £8m in January. We've just spent £24 million pounds to get a new manager, and give him £8m in transfer (AND WAGES) funds. You really think we'll be any better off? Also, where's that £24m coming from? We'd have to finish about 5/6 places higher than where we are currently to even break even! You mean we would have to finish in the lofty heights of mid table. Phew, that's a tall order! Realistically, how much higher do you expect to finish with a new manager and £8m investment? Expectations and reality are completely separate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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