villa-revolution Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) For those fans denigrating Lambert & singing the praises of Rodgers, surely an intense & careful extrapolation of the alleged potential of other top managers actually strongly suggests & points the finger of current under achievement directly at Pelligrini, Wenger, Mourinho & Moyes too, making them grossly incompetent. So to turn the argument around, would Lambert have failed so badly afforded the managerial opportunity's at Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City & Arsenal? Am I suggesting that Lambert is a better manager than any of the above incumbents? No. Ofcourse not. However, you (the pro Rodgers lobby), by your own perverse argument, actually are suggesting/ implying exactly that! Edited April 3, 2014 by villa-revolution 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 For those fans denigrating Lambert & singing the praises of Rodgers, surely an intense & careful extrapolation of the alleged potential of other top managers actually strongly suggests & points the finger of current under achievement directly at Pelligrini, Wenger, Mourinho & Moyes too, making them grossly incompetent. So to turn the argument around, would Lambert have failed so badly afforded the managerial opportunity's at Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City & Arsenal? Am I suggesting that Lambert is a better manager than any of the above incumbents? No. Ofcourse not. However, you (the pro Rodgers lobby), by your own perverse argument, actually are though! I think Lambert would have done much worse than Pellegrini, Wenger, Mourinho and Moyes at the associated clubs. What's Pellegrini done wrong anyway, if Man City win their games in hand they'll be top by two points. And even Chelsea probably wouldn't consider 2nd or 3rd and a Champions League quarter final as a drastic under achievement in Moaninho's first season back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Pretty hard to do worse than Moyes this season, I knew it would be worse under him this year than the last but the decline has been drastic. Regardless this is a thread about Lambert rather top 7 team managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 For those fans denigrating Lambert & singing the praises of Rodgers, surely an intense & careful extrapolation of the alleged potential of other top managers actually strongly suggests & points the finger of current under achievement directly at Pelligrini, Wenger, Mourinho & Moyes too, making them grossly incompetent. So to turn the argument around, would Lambert have failed so badly afforded the managerial opportunity's at Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City & Arsenal? Am I suggesting that Lambert is a better manager than any of the above incumbents? No. Ofcourse not. However, you (the pro Rodgers lobby), by your own perverse argument, actually are though! I think Lambert would have done much worse than Pellegrini, Wenger, Mourinho and Moyes at the associated clubs. What's Pellegrini done wrong anyway, if Man City win their games in hand they'll be top by two points. And even Chelsea probably wouldn't consider 2nd or 3rd and a Champions League quarter final as a drastic under achievement in Moaninho's first season back. What has Pellegrini done wrong you ask Risso? Simple. He hasn't bought the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) He was never expected to in his first season. He progressed them beyond the group-stages which was an advancement from his predecessor. Edited April 3, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted April 3, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 3, 2014 Its hard to compare any managers as all have different priorities, budgets, goals etc. as for Lambert he has one of lowest budgets in the league, we have more points than this stage last year, higher positions and got great results on negative he is a frustrating manager mainly to his stubbornness and reluctance to let players off the leash in some games against lesser teams. all in all this season has been up and down, some great results and some shit results. I think if no sign of progress come this time next year then maybe should ask questions about his future 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) It wasn't aimed at you, Gentleman, it was aimed at CPF and meant to challenge the logic of his argument. I think you may be getting a bit paranoid Me and CPF are one of a kind, a kindred spirit in the dark depressing VT world. Anything you say to CPF, you say to me also. It is true, however, that you are one of the posters who regularly argue for more time for Lambert to show his inner brilliance, which he is seemingly hiding from us right now. There quite a few are others, however, who hold that view, so my scepticism about this is in no sense a personal vendetta. I do not believe you have a personal vendetta, I hold no grudges with any other supporter whether I agree or disagree with them. It is important to remember we are all Claret & Blue brothers and sisters on this forum. We all want Villa to be successful, and the means to that end obviously vary in each supporter. I accept your right to be sceptical about what you observe at Villa. However, I disagree with your views on people who support managerial longevity under Paul Lambert. People who want Lambert to build the team/club have a much more profound argument, than those who simply judge us on a game to game basis or state Lambert is “tactically limited” (whatever that means?) in isolation. It is pure ignorance to judge any manager on that reasoning, especially when people neglect to consider the conditions that Lambert inherited. It is of course a truism that, if we wait long enough, we will see who is right about whether Lambert is a great manager in waiting, or someone who has got out of his depth. It's quite a risk to take - who knows where Villa might be by the time we find out? Having a long term plan based around signing and developing young players (with potential) and a healthier wage bill, together with managerial continuity, is the least risky and the most sensible strategy we could actually adopt at the club. I have no doubt that we will see gains from this model in later years, although I unhappily accept we will suffer in the short term by implementing this long term strategy. Additionally, I am yet to see a “creditable” alternative plan for the club. What is the alternative? Sacking Lambert and replacing him with a “better” manager? Keep spending astronomical amounts of money to keep up in the short term? I believe the aforementioned hypotheses are far greater risks to our club. It seems to me there is more evidence right now to support the "out of his depth" view than the opposite position. I will be interested to see you post more about the above claim, that Lambert is “out of his depth” and “there is more evidence” to support this perspective. I am very intrigued. Edited April 3, 2014 by GENTLEMAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I'm starting to hold a grudge against supporters who can't be arsed to read the rules and then make comments that completely contradict the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I'll probably get slaughtered for this but in light of our terrible injury luck this season I think if Lambert gets us to finish around where we are now he'll have done a decent job this season. Okore was going to be one of our starting CBs before getting injured for pretty much the rest of the season and Kozak was a decent player too before getting a season ending injury at the beginning of the year. Now Benteke's out for the rest of the season after having already spent a fair amount of it either injured or not properly fit. Edited April 3, 2014 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I still don't think this injury would be an excuse for finishing below the 40-point mark myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I still don't think this injury would be an excuse for finishing below the 40-point mark myself. It has made it a lot more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I still don't think this injury would be an excuse for finishing below the 40-point mark myself. Not this one, but the injuries as a whole. I honestly can't remember the last time we had this many important players get such bad injuries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 What the **** are they doing in training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I'll probably get slaughtered for this but in light of our terrible injury luck this season I think if Lambert gets us to finish around where we are now he'll have done a decent job this season. Okore was going to be one of our starting CBs before getting injured for pretty much the rest of the season and Kozak was a decent player too before getting a season ending injury at the beginning of the year. Now Benteke's out for the rest of the season after having already spent a fair amount of it either injured or not properly fit. Losing your 3 most expensive signings to a cruciate, a broken leg and a snapped Achilles all in one season is real bad luck. I can't remember that happening to a club before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Makes you worry about our coaching methods. Or is it just we, as a team, are one of the unluckiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 What the **** are they doing in training? I wonder if it was clark again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I still don't think this injury would be an excuse for finishing below the 40-point mark myself. Not this one, but the injuries as a whole. I honestly can't remember the last time we had this many important players get such bad injuries. McLeish season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) I still don't think this injury would be an excuse for finishing below the 40-point mark myself. Not this one, but the injuries as a whole. I honestly can't remember the last time we had this many important players get such bad injuries. McLeish season? IIRC rightly Petrov was out from illness from March onwards and Bent out with injury from February onwards but aside from that I can't think of any other major injuries to key players. This season we've had Benteke out for a few months and unfit for another couple, Kozak out for half a season and Okore out for practically the whole season. N'Zogbia isn't too important but he's been out all season as well. Edited April 3, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 FFS got no problem with people criticising lambert and the coaches when blatantly not fit players are rushed back (benteke and gabby mainly) Didn't moyes have the problem at Everton for a few years with knees? Didn't la liga do an investigation in to the whole league because of the number of knee injuries? Neither of them found anything but what do our team of medical staff and fitness coaches know? Everyone out Why let bad luck get in the way of the fans negativity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I still don't think this injury would be an excuse for finishing below the 40-point mark myself. Not this one, but the injuries as a whole. I honestly can't remember the last time we had this many important players get such bad injuries. McLeish season? seem to remeber Houllier had a dreadful run of injuries too in his season, didnt we lose Young, Downing, Petrov, Reo Coker and Gabby at one point??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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