Paul Lambert

[PieFacE]

Amazes me how Liverpool manage to just spend, spend, spend with apparent immunity from FFP whilst we cut, cut, cut because "apparantly" of FFP!

 

Says more about the ambition of the two owners than FFP to me.

We announced more losses than Liverpool last year even though they have been spending. They can spend more because they earn more. FFP doesnt really seem all that fair does it, but there we go.

[DelboyVilla]

 

 

 

In the simplest terms, if we don't beat Fulham, Lambert should go.

Even though we may still be 12th?

Is this a serious question? Our league placing to me is far more determined by the weakness of other teams rather than a mistaken sign of progress. Lambert is making Brendan Rodgers look like a genius in comparison to the rebuild each have undertaken.

Yes Liverpool were at a better starting point and have had better resources than our selves. But Liverpool have had the tougher nut to crack to try and regain top 4 status. Personally I think they look most likely to win the league now too. What an achievement that would be by Rodgers.

Meanwhile we plod along and should but great full for the handful of games our team turns up to. What makes it ever more infuriating is the inability to beat teams on 'our' level. We know the players have the talent because when expectation is low and we are well and truly underdogs we excel against the top sides. This is solely in the hands of Lambert to improve results now.

 

Yes, what an achievement that would be for Rodgers.  He inherited a squad containing the likes of Suarez and was able to offer him 200k a week to stay at Liverpool.  Comparing the job Rodgers has done to Lambert is like comparing apples with oranges. You think cracking top four with a team containing the likes of Suarez and Gerrard is harder than what Lambert has had to do?!  Lambert has had to rebuild the squad of club that was sinking fast with some pretty astute buys on a very tight budget.  Rodgers would have sunk without trace under such constraints.

 

 

Do you honestly believe that Lambert is a better manager than Rodgers?

 

Rodgers showed at Swansea that on a limited budget he is at least as good as Lambert was at Norwich. However I really do believe that there are very few managers who could do what Rodgers has done with Liverpool. Rodgers is hot property and is being linked with the likes of Barca. I've not seen Lambert linked with anyone.

 

Lambert is at best a plodder and until he can get his teams playing consistently then for me the jury's out. For us to progress towards the top 8 we may have to bring in an improvement on Lambert.

[SikhInTrinity]

I think no one has said Lambert is a better manager than Rodgers, its saying Rodgers had more finances and a better team to go and work with, so comparing the two jobs is a pointless task.

[McGregor1888]

 

 

 

 

In the simplest terms, if we don't beat Fulham, Lambert should go.

Even though we may still be 12th?

Is this a serious question? Our league placing to me is far more determined by the weakness of other teams rather than a mistaken sign of progress. Lambert is making Brendan Rodgers look like a genius in comparison to the rebuild each have undertaken.

Yes Liverpool were at a better starting point and have had better resources than our selves. But Liverpool have had the tougher nut to crack to try and regain top 4 status. Personally I think they look most likely to win the league now too. What an achievement that would be by Rodgers.

Meanwhile we plod along and should but great full for the handful of games our team turns up to. What makes it ever more infuriating is the inability to beat teams on 'our' level. We know the players have the talent because when expectation is low and we are well and truly underdogs we excel against the top sides. This is solely in the hands of Lambert to improve results now.

 

Yes, what an achievement that would be for Rodgers.  He inherited a squad containing the likes of Suarez and was able to offer him 200k a week to stay at Liverpool.  Comparing the job Rodgers has done to Lambert is like comparing apples with oranges. You think cracking top four with a team containing the likes of Suarez and Gerrard is harder than what Lambert has had to do?!  Lambert has had to rebuild the squad of club that was sinking fast with some pretty astute buys on a very tight budget.  Rodgers would have sunk without trace under such constraints.

 

 

Do you honestly believe that Lambert is a better manager than Rodgers?

 

Rodgers showed at Swansea that on a limited budget he is at least as good as Lambert was at Norwich. However I really do believe that there are very few managers who could do what Rodgers has done with Liverpool. Rodgers is hot property and is being linked with the likes of Barca. I've not seen Lambert linked with anyone.

 

Lambert is at best a plodder and until he can get his teams playing consistently then for me the jury's out. For us to progress towards the top 8 we may have to bring in an improvement on Lambert.

 

It's impossible to compare them on what has happened at Villa and Liverpool as they have been operating with totally different levels of resources and remits.  All I know is that Lambert regularly beat Rodgers' Swansea with his Norwich side, often tactically outsmarting him too.   There is an argument that all the groundwork at Swansea was well in place prior to Rodgers' arrival, too.  Rodgers seems to have done  a very good job, so far, but as others are pointing out, it's a very weak Premier League this season and Liverpool are simply profiting from the turmoil and transition at a number of other clubs.  I believe we will grow and develop under Lambert.

[suttonpaul]

I think that is very fair Pieface as you say they earn more.

 

As for Rodgers being a genius, like others have said he started with very high quality players and he has spent 100m over 2 seasons, some of those buys like Sturridge have been great but look at his buys.....

 

Borini -11.7m

Allen - 16.7m

Assaidi - 3.5m

Sahin - 4.4m LOAN FEE

Yesil - 1.1m

Coutiniho - 8.8m

Sturridge - 13.2m

 

Sakho - 16.7m

Ilori - 7.3m

Moses - 1m LOAN FEE

Cissokho - 900k LOAN FEE

Alberto - 7m

Aspas - 8m

Minolet - 9.3m

 

Now we can all pick out Coutiniho and Sturridge as good buys but he doesn't look good in the transfer market.

 

 

[SikhInTrinity]

In his starting line up, only 3 are his signings. The rest are Intenationals but hey lets compare the jobs between PL and Rodgers.

[DelboyVilla]

Can someone confirm this, there are people that believe that Lambert could have taken that Liverpool side and had them top of the league with 6 games remaining?

[bobzy]

Can someone confirm this, there are people that believe that Lambert could have taken that Liverpool side and had them top of the league with 6 games remaining?

 

Unconfirmed.  Where the hell are you getting that from?

[villa-revolution]

As far as Rodgers V Lambert is concerned you need to take into account what Lambert achieved & was building at Norwich to gain a more balanced judgement. Liverpool are currently playing with total confidence at the moment & have gained unbelievable momentum too. That is obviously largely attributable to Rodgers & he is doing an outstanding job. However, as a previous poster has pointed out, Rodgers is coming from a position of strength not weakness.

 

When Randy appointed Lambert our club was haemorraging money like it was going out of fashion. The whole situation needed to be & has been seriously addressed. This obviously meant that Lambert had to cut his cloth accordingly & we are now fast approaching the point whereby the whole club can become expansive & competitive once more.

 

In short, we  & Lambert will soon be starting from a position of strength once more as opposed to weakness. I know it's been a miserable tenure to date but the Club has become stronger overall. The medicine tastes disgusting but it will serve us well in the long run.

[briny_ear]

 

 

Yes, but it makes you sound clever if you say the manager's tactics aren't good, and you can't be proved wrong. It's a win-win.

Isn't it exactly the same if you just keep asserting that the manager will get things right if we just give him time?

 

That can't be proved wrong either.

 

I know this is aimed towards me.   And to answer your question Briny, not at all. My opinion will either be proved or disproved over a period of time, I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong if the latter happens. I do believe we will keep getting stronger each season under Lambert though.

 

It wasn't aimed at you, Gentleman, it was aimed at CPF and meant to challenge the logic of his argument.

 

I think you may be getting a bit paranoid!

 

It is true, however, that you are one of the posters who regularly argues for more time for Lambert to show his inner brilliance, which he is seemingly hiding from us right now. There quite a few are others, however, who hold that view, so my scepticism about this is in no sense a personal vendetta.

 

It is of course a truism that, if we wait long enough, we will see who is right about whether Lambert is a great manager in waiting, or someone who has got out of his depth.

 

It's quite a risk to take - who knows where Villa might be by the time we find out?

 

It seems to me there is more evidence right now to support the "out of his depth" view than the opposite position.

Edited April 3, 2014 by briny_ear

[TrentVilla]

I just dipped into this thread to see which particular stick Lambert was being beaten with today, I wasn't sure if it would be that he loaned Grant Holt, didn't have the % stat someone wanted to see on their excel spread sheet or because he said "we go again".... er again.

 

Seems I was totally wide of the mark though, today it seems the problem with Paul Lambert is that he isn't Brendan Rodgers. Seems reasonable to me.

 

It also seems entirely reasonable to compare the achievements of the two men over two seasons irrespective of the situations at the clubs they inherited, the players they inherited or the players that they have been able to afford to buy. It also seems entirely fair to point at the worst signings by Lambert compared to the best of Rodgers. Oh and to try and claim Rodgers achievements at Swansea were some how more impressive than Lambert's at Norwich. 

 

Do I think Lambert could have got Liverpool top? Frankly I couldn't give a monkey's ring piece if I'm entirely honest.

 

I actually wanted Rodgers here over Lambert but that wasn't to be, I do though think he is a better manager. But so what? 

There are going to be better managers out there than Lambert, problem is they aren't very likely to fancy a job where building a squad on £40m plus some average kids from the youth side and staying in the PL is deemed as failure by many.

 

I look forward checking back on the thread tomorrow to see Lambert getting some more stick for not finding that plane in the Indian Ocean and not being Cameron Diaz. Lambert out!

[ozvillafan]

How are people having "blind faith"?  We're currently set to improve on last season, he seems to address issues as they arise (although God only knows what's happened to our defence lately) and knows where we need to buy players.  I've seen enough within certain games to know that we can perform better and a lack of quality is really what's hindering us.

 

 

I disagree.

 

Despite our "lack of quality" we completely outplayed Chelsea. And the fact that we "can" perform better means we need to look as to why we are not.

 

It's the managers job to get us playing as a team consistently. Not to hold out for better players.

[bobzy]

 

It seems to me there is more evidence right now to support the "out of his depth" view than the opposite position.

 

 

I have no problem with people wanting Lambert out etc, but how on Earth is he "out of his depth"?

[bobzy]

 

How are people having "blind faith"?  We're currently set to improve on last season, he seems to address issues as they arise (although God only knows what's happened to our defence lately) and knows where we need to buy players.  I've seen enough within certain games to know that we can perform better and a lack of quality is really what's hindering us.

 

 

I disagree.

 

Despite our "lack of quality" we completely outplayed Chelsea. And the fact that we "can" perform better means we need to look as to why we are not.

 

It's the managers job to get us playing as a team consistently. Not to hold out for better players.

 

 

Manager gets no credit for Chelsea result/performance, only questioned as to why he's not producing this level of performance every week with a squad that is short on class.

 

Seems fair.

 

Edit:  I also expect none of the top teams to improve their squads.  Take Man Utd, for example.  It's obviously down to Moyes being a poor manager because they've hammered teams and drawn with Bayern Munich but they aren't top 4.  They need to be more consistent rather than bring in more quality - agreed.

Edited April 3, 2014 by bobzy

[briny_ear]

 

 

It seems to me there is more evidence right now to support the "out of his depth" view than the opposite position.

 

 

I have no problem with people wanting Lambert out etc, but how on Earth is he "out of his depth"?

 

See, Gentleman, you are not alone...

[DelboyVilla]

I just dipped into this thread to see which particular stick Lambert was being beaten with today, I wasn't sure if it would be that he loaned Grant Holt, didn't have the % stat someone wanted to see on their excel spread sheet or because he said "we go again".... er again.

 

Seems I was totally wide of the mark though, today it seems the problem with Paul Lambert is that he isn't Brendan Rodgers. Seems reasonable to me.

 

It also seems entirely reasonable to compare the achievements of the two men over two seasons irrespective of the situations at the clubs they inherited, the players they inherited or the players that they have been able to afford to buy. It also seems entirely fair to point at the worst signings by Lambert compared to the best of Rodgers. Oh and to try and claim Rodgers achievements at Swansea were some how more impressive than Lambert's at Norwich. 

 

Do I think Lambert could have got Liverpool top? Frankly I couldn't give a monkey's ring piece if I'm entirely honest.

 

I actually wanted Rodgers here over Lambert but that wasn't to be, I do though think he is a better manager. But so what? 

There are going to be better managers out there than Lambert, problem is they aren't very likely to fancy a job where building a squad on £40m plus some average kids from the youth side and staying in the PL is deemed as failure by many.

 

I look forward checking back on the thread tomorrow to see Lambert getting some more stick for not finding that plane in the Indian Ocean and not being Cameron Diaz. Lambert out!

 

Trent I also recently discovered that Lambert is NOT Roberto Martinez to my horror. How selfish can you get?

[bannedfromHandV]

 

 

 

 

In the simplest terms, if we don't beat Fulham, Lambert should go.

Even though we may still be 12th?

Is this a serious question? Our league placing to me is far more determined by the weakness of other teams rather than a mistaken sign of progress. Lambert is making Brendan Rodgers look like a genius in comparison to the rebuild each have undertaken.

Yes Liverpool were at a better starting point and have had better resources than our selves. But Liverpool have had the tougher nut to crack to try and regain top 4 status. Personally I think they look most likely to win the league now too. What an achievement that would be by Rodgers.

Meanwhile we plod along and should but great full for the handful of games our team turns up to. What makes it ever more infuriating is the inability to beat teams on 'our' level. We know the players have the talent because when expectation is low and we are well and truly underdogs we excel against the top sides. This is solely in the hands of Lambert to improve results now.

 

Yes, what an achievement that would be for Rodgers.  He inherited a squad containing the likes of Suarez and was able to offer him 200k a week to stay at Liverpool.  Comparing the job Rodgers has done to Lambert is like comparing apples with oranges. You think cracking top four with a team containing the likes of Suarez and Gerrard is harder than what Lambert has had to do?!  Lambert has had to rebuild the squad of club that was sinking fast with some pretty astute buys on a very tight budget.  Rodgers would have sunk without trace under such constraints.

 

 

Do you honestly believe that Lambert is a better manager than Rodgers?

 

Rodgers showed at Swansea that on a limited budget he is at least as good as Lambert was at Norwich. However I really do believe that there are very few managers who could do what Rodgers has done with Liverpool. Rodgers is hot property and is being linked with the likes of Barca. I've not seen Lambert linked with anyone.

 

Lambert is at best a plodder and until he can get his teams playing consistently then for me the jury's out. For us to progress towards the top 8 we may have to bring in an improvement on Lambert.

 

 

The same Rodgers who inherited a Swansea team already on their way up with firm foundations throughout the club, infrastructure, stadium, youth setup etc?

 

And the same Lambert who inherited a Norwich team at their lowest point for some considerable time, who had just lost their first game of the season 7-1?

 

 

Let's not forget, Rodgers hasn't really signed any of the players who are charging Liverpool up the league other than Sturridge........

[briny_ear]

 

 

 

 

Manager gets no credit for Chelsea result/performance, only questioned as to why he's not producing this level of performance every week with a squad that is short on class.

 

 

Of course he gets credit for the Chelsea result. But as a quid pro quo, it is also entirely reasonable that he gets flak for producing a  performance such as the one against Stoke just a week later. Also, a more general question about how good a manager he is if he cannot get more consistency in the way his squad plays.

 

EDIT: Or, to put it more starkly, manages to achieve such wild inconsistency.

Edited April 3, 2014 by briny_ear

[bobzy]

 

 

 

 

 

Manager gets no credit for Chelsea result/performance, only questioned as to why he's not producing this level of performance every week with a squad that is short on class.

 

 

Of course he gets credit for the Chelsea result. But as a quid pro quo, it is also entirely reasonable that he gets flak for producing a  performance such as the one against Stoke just a week later. Also, a more general question about how good a manager he is if he cannot get more consistency in the way his squad plays.

 

EDIT: Or, to put it more starkly, manages to achieve such wild inconsistency.

 

 

Like most other teams in the league?  Inconsistency happens when you don't have a top squad.  Get better players in, consistency improves.  That's how shit works.

[briny_ear]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Manager gets no credit for Chelsea result/performance, only questioned as to why he's not producing this level of performance every week with a squad that is short on class.

 

 

Of course he gets credit for the Chelsea result. But as a quid pro quo, it is also entirely reasonable that he gets flak for producing a  performance such as the one against Stoke just a week later. Also, a more general question about how good a manager he is if he cannot get more consistency in the way his squad plays.

 

EDIT: Or, to put it more starkly, manages to achieve such wild inconsistency.

 

 

Like most other teams in the league?  Inconsistency happens when you don't have a top squad.  Get better players in, consistency improves.  That's how shit works.

 

See, that's EXACTLY what I'm trying to get at! When Lambert's team does well, apparently he should get the credit. When they play badly, and, let's face it, the performance against Stoke was dire beyond words, far worse that any other club has managed at home to Stoke this season, then apparently it's not his fault, it's down to the poor quality of the squad, lack of investment, etc.

 

Call me old-fashioned, but my view is it's the manager's squad and he gets judged on every result, not just the good ones.