dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 When Man City destroy us 10-0 on Wednesday all you Lambert Luvvies are going to want him out as much as everyone else.Thanks to those Lambert Luvvies and their bloody logic I'm starting to warm *slightly* to the idea of him staying with investment. When he's had more than a million to spend on a player he's done well (and occasionally with even less). Or at least, I'm not *completely* averse to it. I maintain he has good ideas but doesn't know how to implement them consistently. Maybe a decent coach or two (and better players) might help him to do so... *Might* dave isnt that logic flawed? If the signings had done well then how come we have been so poor? With the exception of benteke there really isnt any other gem in his signings which considering the number he has made makes you wonder if he really does have this talent? Get rid of him now and lets get someone new and better in asap The logic is flawed either way. Theres far more to it extending to both sides of the debate. If we accept that he's as poor a "coach" as results might suggest, then he must have signed a few gems because this rag tag bunch of league 1 superstars have managed to survive despite him. On the flip side, maybe we say he can't spot a player to save his life, in which case he must be some coach to keep them up considering the money he has spent. The reality is somewhere in the middle. This black and white thinking is a charade born out of frustration. He has done OK with his money, Benteke being the obvious example. Okore looked the part and despite my reservations Kozak scored goals, we lost both to injury far too early. Westwood has been solid, Bacuna was becoming a bit of a Holte End hero, before yet another injury. Vlaar... He should have signed another midfielder over Kozak, but then would it really have mattered considering he seems incapable of organising one. His inability to bring structure and consistency to the center positions is incredibly frustrating and due to the brand of football this generates it is also incredibly ugly. I've made my stance well known. I'm merely saying I'm not completely averse to it. Judging by this and my previous post, I'm confused! I do think he has ability, I'm just not seeing enough of it I don't think. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Not really, I asked because I was honestly wondering. My reason? The points total this season is no better than last, some of the football both seasons was dire (less, but some was pretty exciting). I was honestly wondering why I generally felt more comfortable this season. Genuinely curious, trying to understand my perception. Don't know if i do now, but maybe I just feel better close to relegation zone than I feel when we're in the relegation zone. Either way, no-one will argue against the idea that we need to win more. Both for better results and for more entertaining play. The question I think is, would Lambert get those wins and play entertaining football with more backing and fewer key injuries? Should he be given a chance to try? Have we ever been less than 3 points clear of the relegation zone this season? I know we spent most of last season in it or very close whereas this year there's always been a gap, usually a fairly big one too. We've averaged around 13th place for most of the season, which is pretty good given the injury problems. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 To expect much progress in terms of results, performances and league position in these circumstances and in the context of other clubs relative spending is, in my humble opinion optimistic at best but perhaps even a little unrealistic. Yet two years ago anyone who thought we'd be in a relegation battle was mocked and laughed at. They weren't though were they because 2 years ago McLeish was in charge and we were in more of a mess watching far worse football than we are now. I think the difference in quality between the football under McLeish and Lambert is so small as to be not worth bothering with. It was crap and depressing with poor results under McLeish, and it's crap and depressing with poor results under Lambert. Neither are good enough for Villa, but only one of them managed our bitter enemies, so that makes him worse in a lot of people's eyes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) On the "dont_do_it_doug" spectrum set out a couple of posts ago, I think I am at the "good spotter of players but crap coach" end. That makes it easier to understand the strange inconsistencies in performance we have suffered this season (and last). Beat Chelsea 1-0/lose 1-4 to Stoke next. This shouldn't happen. I think it's more important to have someone who can get consistent performances out of the players. Too often, Lambert's tactics seemed to consist of: get the ball to Benteke and he will do the rest.There are a couple of obvious pitfalls in this approach. Edited May 6, 2014 by briny_ear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Not really, I asked because I was honestly wondering. My reason? The points total this season is no better than last, some of the football both seasons was dire (less, but some was pretty exciting). I was honestly wondering why I generally felt more comfortable this season. Genuinely curious, trying to understand my perception. Don't know if i do now, but maybe I just feel better close to relegation zone than I feel when we're in the relegation zone. Either way, no-one will argue against the idea that we need to win more. Both for better results and for more entertaining play. The question I think is, would Lambert get those wins and play entertaining football with more backing and fewer key injuries? Should he be given a chance to try? Have we ever been less than 3 points clear of the relegation zone this season? I know we spent most of last season in it or very close whereas this year there's always been a gap, usually a fairly big one too. We've averaged around 13th place for most of the season, which is pretty good given the injury problems. I thought it was where you finish that counts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 if Lambert was at Norwich and brought all these signings in on the cheap as he has done he would be congratulated for keeping them up two years in a row. the fact Benteke is a "gem" is a bonus. at the prices we paid, even for Benteke, we're lucky any of them turned out to be Premier League standard. actually, I think we have more than one "gem" in Lambert's signings. Westwood has continued to improve. Bacuna has shown ability and at 21/22 should be better next year. Kozak and Okore looked potential gems before their injuries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If things are going to stay the same (I highly doubt it) then there would be no sense at all in sacking Lambert but I doubt he would want to work a third season under the same restrictions. If we get a new owner I think it's open to debate whether Lambert should stay or not. Personally I would like to see him get a chance to sign some real players with proper backing but I know I'm probably in the minority here. I doubt you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 But they won't be the overpaid half arsed don't give a damn in it for the money lot we had under MON and Houllier and McLeish. They will be lowish paid - young with still some resale value and easier to shift so there's no comparison really - in my humble opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 But they won't be the overpaid half arsed don't give a damn in it for the money lot we had under MON and Houllier and McLeish. They will be lowish paid - young with still some resale value and easier to shift so there's no comparison really - in my humble opinion. no i agree with you, i was more making the point the amount of players we would need to replace for us to improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Whatever happens with Lambert we need a good striker in the summer as we can't limp along until halfway through the season in the hope that Benteke will be fit enough to save us from relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Leaving out the fact the majority of our performances this season have been woeful. Lambert should go because he failed to keep a handle on his trusted lieutenants. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 On the "dont_do_it_doug" spectrum set out a couple of posts ago, I think I am at the "good spotter of players but crap coach" end. That makes it easier to understand the strange inconsistencies in performance we have suffered this season (and last). Beat Chelsea 1-0/lose 1-4 to Stoke next. This shouldn't happen. I think it's more important to have someone who can get consistent performances out of the players. Too often, Lambert's tactics seemed to consist of: get the ball to Benteke and he will do the rest.There are a couple of obvious pitfalls in this approach. I think I lean that way myself. I like the bloke, but I wonder about his ability to motivate. I do honestly believe he's a good tactician too, he's versatile and amenable and aside from the occasional stand out moment he has the ability to make changes that affect the game in a positive manner. What he doesn't seem able to do is get them to play as a cohesive unit within the parameters he sets. On that front yes, he's a poor coach. So perhaps with a coaching team around him with the ability to implement his ideas... Maybe. Though there is almost certainly too much water under the bridge here. I think he was too soft, too loyal, for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 Those players are actually decent squad players though. And haven't those sat on the bench rather than bent, Hutton etc is far better for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 But they won't be the overpaid half arsed don't give a damn in it for the money lot we had under MON and Houllier and McLeish. They will be lowish paid - young with still some resale value and easier to shift so there's no comparison really - in my humble opinion. I doubt those listed would have much resale value. Lambert also hadn't managed to shift the high earners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I just think he's gone. When a manager gets to this discussion - he doesn't usually turn it around. I always think the should he stay or should go be based on how he has done in the job - on that basis he goes. However the big Elephant in the room, is who replace him - I've not known such a shortage of decent managers - With only Moyes IMO not deemed as a bit of a gamble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 Those players are actually decent squad players though. And haven't those sat on the bench rather than bent, Hutton etc is far better for us. Agreed - And what we need is a squad - these are part of the squad - just add quality to the team and we won't need to sell them at all - given more game time they could become better - Bowery had more than 15 mins on the pitch and had his best game for Villa after being deemed shit and not good enough. In the eyes of the 'experts' he probably still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 But they won't be the overpaid half arsed don't give a damn in it for the money lot we had under MON and Houllier and McLeish. They will be lowish paid - young with still some resale value and easier to shift so there's no comparison really - in my humble opinion. I doubt those listed would have much resale value. Lambert also hadn't managed to shift the high earners And the reason is - the HIGH wages - again as I said - these guys would be easier to shift - did not cost much - on lower wages so again - no comparison as there is more chance of selling these guys as they are young AND have a resale value(be it same as we paid or higher) and lower wages - but are nothing like the overpaid bomb squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cropley Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 Those players are actually decent squad players though. And haven't those sat on the bench rather than bent, Hutton etc is far better for us. No they aren't, honestly. Lowton isn't bad and for all his detractors KEA works his goolies off. The rest of them ? I wouldn't feed 'em never mind pay 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cropley Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If he does keep his job, and gets given a decent budget, we will end up with another bomb squad of players he signed that don't have a long term future here Luna Bennett Lowton Sylla Tonev plus the likes of Clark, Baker & KEA who are not good enough for a side trying to get into the top 10, Let alone compete with Everton/Southampton etc for top 8 Those players are actually decent squad players though. And haven't those sat on the bench rather than bent, Hutton etc is far better for us. Agreed - And what we need is a squad - these are part of the squad - just add quality to the team and we won't need to sell them at all - given more game time they could become better - Bowery had more than 15 mins on the pitch and had his best game for Villa after being deemed shit and not good enough. In the eyes of the 'experts' he probably still is. That's twice you've been right this season - congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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