Paul Lambert

[CrackpotForeigner]

100% Agree with you JB.

 

The fact that the results and performances are so bad does NOT mean it's all the manager's fault.

It does NOT mean that a different or even a better manager would get better results.

And above all it is highly doubtful that we'd now be able to attract a manager that even 50% of the fans would want.

 

Lambert has proven himself to be a good manager in the past. Unless we somehow attract a cast iron managerial genius to apply for the job, I think we should give Lambert a chance with a budget somewhere better than laughable.

[kurtsimonw]

His budget has been enough that we shouldn't be fighting for our lives, again, come week 37 of a season.

[Dodgyknees]

Oh I agree with that, we shouldn't be struggling. At the same time we should have a better squad, and that won't happen when the price matter so much. Other teams are buying 6/7m+ rated players, we are doing the same at a much lower level, so imistakes hurt us more on the pitch.

[Villarocker]

The problem we face is that Lambert has lost a lot of fan support. Any potential owner would see that and have to ask themselves a question of whether it's worth giving him £50m+ to buy in 6 or 7 decent players to see how he does. Trouble is, that's a big chunk of money to give to a man who has just been through two relegation battles.

I just can't see new owners giving Lambert another go at it. Besides, he's also lost his two main accomplices. We'd need to sort that out as well. For me, I think new owners would bring in their own management team. But, if Lerner stays I can see Lambert here again next season.

[dukes]

Said it elsewhere in this thread, managers of worse teams than us (at the time Lambert took over) have spent less than us and done much better than Lambert (Steve Bruce at Hull for example).

Hie's made too many poor signings and has never been able to balance the team it choose the right formation for the players he bought. He us tactically inept and completely unable to change tactics to match in game changes made by rival managers. He has failed to motivate players.

He had bought something like 16 players and made us a poorer footballing team. Lambert is the worst Villa manager since Billy McNeil and a change is a must gone the end of the season no matter who the owner is.

[welshvillan]

One more point. According to transferlegue.com the players we have bought for under £3m in the last TEN years (before Lambert and under £3m as that seems to be the total he's given for most purchases) are as follows;

Enda Stevens, Habib Beye, Brad Friedel, Wayne Routledge, Shaun Maloney, Kevin Phillips, Djemba-Djemba, Gavin McCann and Thomas Sorenson. There are a few undisclosed that might have featured but not sure.

I think that almost makes its own point. Hardly a strong first XI that'd make! Throw in a few youth academy players with that too and I think it's easy to see why we are a team fighting relegation yearly.

Note the signing of players such as Knight, Harewood, Shorey and Makoun all cost more than our current lot. Even respected 'average' players cost in region of £5-7m years ago - see Reo-Coker, Dunne, Collins even Petrov. We don't even take mid range players anymore. And we pay them less too.

Sorry, for me Lambert is the smallest part of the problem and seeing what he did at Norwich and what he has sometimes done with Villa with the resources available I think it'd be fine if he was given another season with investment. He's made mistakes, every manager does but the hand he's been dealt can not be overlooked however bad the results are. Without resources in your work place you'd do a sh*t job too but would it be your fault? He can hardly moan in public, he can hardly lambast his players and he's got to put spin on everything but the deck is so stacked against him I genuinely don't see anyone who would have done much better. It's not acceptable but I see at least 90% of the blame

being Lerner's.

I agree with the above 100%

[Big_John_10]

I'm still amazed there's a few that keep defending what he's produced this season. To claim the manager is only a small part of the problem is really excusing him a lot. Are his current working conditions one of the worst any villa manager has worked under? Because he's producing club record lows. Are the constraints the worst any villa manager has worked under in the premier league? Because he's quite easily setting new premiership lows as well.

He's not had an easy job but to go this far backwards in his second year is down to him and his flaws as a manager.

[sharkyvilla]

I'm still amazed there's a few that keep defending what he's produced this season. To claim the manager is only a small part of the problem is really excusing him a lot. Are his current working conditions one of the worst any villa manager has worked under? Because he's producing club record lows. Are the constraints the worst any villa manager has worked under in the premier league? Because he's quite easily setting new premiership lows as well.

He's not had an easy job but to go this far backwards in his second year is down to him and his flaws as a manager.

Surely it's indisputable that he's working under the worst conditions? We can argue about how well he has done, but surely in relative terms with the wage budget it is a fact that he is having to work a lot harder than our previous managers. The question is whether people think he's still done a shit job, or an average one. I don't think anyone thinks he's done a brilliant job any more, what with our free fall since going 1-0 against Stoke.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

 

I'm still amazed there's a few that keep defending what he's produced this season. To claim the manager is only a small part of the problem is really excusing him a lot. Are his current working conditions one of the worst any villa manager has worked under? Because he's producing club record lows. Are the constraints the worst any villa manager has worked under in the premier league? Because he's quite easily setting new premiership lows as well.

He's not had an easy job but to go this far backwards in his second year is down to him and his flaws as a manager.

Surely it's indisputable that he's working under the worst conditions? We can argue about how well he has done, but surely in relative terms with the wage budget it is a fact that he is having to work a lot harder than our previous managers. The question is whether people think he's still done a shit job, or an average one. I don't think anyone thinks he's done a brilliant job any more, what with our free fall since going 1-0 against Stoke.

 

 

Worst conditions? How about the time when our main acquision was Gavin McCann? Or when we couldn't afford to get Eirik Bakke on loan? 

[kurtsimonw]

 

I'm still amazed there's a few that keep defending what he's produced this season. To claim the manager is only a small part of the problem is really excusing him a lot. Are his current working conditions one of the worst any villa manager has worked under? Because he's producing club record lows. Are the constraints the worst any villa manager has worked under in the premier league? Because he's quite easily setting new premiership lows as well.

He's not had an easy job but to go this far backwards in his second year is down to him and his flaws as a manager.

Surely it's indisputable that he's working under the worst conditions? We can argue about how well he has done, but surely in relative terms with the wage budget it is a fact that he is having to work a lot harder than our previous managers. The question is whether people think he's still done a shit job, or an average one. I don't think anyone thinks he's done a brilliant job any more, what with our free fall since going 1-0 against Stoke.

 

I think McLeish hard worse constraints. Lost two of our best players for £40m and was given less than half of that to spend.

[Moorski]

The fact is Lambert has spent money on players that are not good enough and the results have got worse, as a club, yes we have a lot of problems but it is the team the supporters care about which is simply playing terrible football and achieving even worse results.

[pacbuddies]

I don't care how much people whinge on about budgets and low transfer fees and wages and other financial restrictions the fact is that Lambert went out last summer and spent £millions on players that he either doesn't bother selecting or are just not up to it at this level.

 

Any manager that can spend a load of money and make the squad worse (in terms of quality and on field performances) is quite clearly not very good at his job.

 

He has to go and the sooner the better.

[Big_John_10]

I'm still amazed there's a few that keep defending what he's produced this season. To claim the manager is only a small part of the problem is really excusing him a lot. Are his current working conditions one of the worst any villa manager has worked under? Because he's producing club record lows. Are the constraints the worst any villa manager has worked under in the premier league? Because he's quite easily setting new premiership lows as well.

He's not had an easy job but to go this far backwards in his second year is down to him and his flaws as a manager.

Surely it's indisputable that he's working under the worst conditions? We can argue about how well he has done, but surely in relative terms with the wage budget it is a fact that he is having to work a lot harder than our previous managers. The question is whether people think he's still done a shit job, or an average one. I don't think anyone thinks he's done a brilliant job any more, what with our free fall since going 1-0 against Stoke.

I think McLeish hard worse constraints. Lost two of our best players for £40m and was given less than half of that to spend.

I was thinking about the conditions McLeish had to work under also. He also had less time, less support from fans and I'd say higher expectations from fans also.

[Demitri_C]

i would be intrigued to see lamberts head to head record against mcleishs. i suspect there is not much in it.

 

no doubt we have become a larger laughing stock under lambert with all the humilating results we have suffered under him

[SikhInTrinity]

 

Also to note Swansea had the likes of Rangel, Williams, Britton, Dyer, Routledge, Davies to utlilise. Whereas PL had to call upon Clark, Baker, Gabby, Weimann and Delph. I know what set of players I'd like to have called upon. Rodgers also managed to build a decent side there, whereas we had a really poor set of overpaid players. And on top of that Laudrup was working for Hew Jenkins, man who knows what he's doing and questioned the manager on certain things, something PF or Randy could never do as they haven't a clue about football.

Firstly, I wasn't trying to say the situations of both managers was directly comparable, rather I was disputing the idea that Swansea have superior resources to us. Though most of the players inherited by Laudrup aren't anything special. I believe Lambert had the budget to buy a similar calibre of player to the likes of Routledge and Rangal.

Intersting that you include Davies. A player given his debut and shown faith in by Laudrup. Something Lambert could've done but has consistantly chosen not to.

 

 

They weren't anything special, but they were a team, they had a spine there to work with. We didn't. Why is it interesting I included Davies, he had to give him his debut because at the time if you remember Taylor during the season got a serious injury, Laudrup then bought in Tiendelli as cover. Easier to bring in a player when you effectively have no other choice.

[Moorski]

McLeish was doomed from day 1, We all know that, Lambert has signed 18 players but how many were involved on Saturday excusing the 3 injured players.(Benteke,Kozak,Okores)

[shaggy]

My point is perhaps simpler than my earlier 'essay'.

 

This team is awful, the majority of the players are substandard, it's some of the worst football ever played at Villa Park and we've broken loads of awful records. All almost undisputable facts. Is Lambert responsible? Yes, but it's the amount of responsibility you assign. For me it's way less than Lerner and sufficient enough to give him the benefit of the doubt if a new owner arrives. If Lerner stays we're f*cked with Lambert or Guardiola in charge.

 

Lambert's pricer buys have been Benteke (£7m), Vlaar (£3m), Kozak (£7m), Okore (£4m) and Bacuna (£3m) of which two are success, two are seriously injured and the final one is at worst mixed. All his other signings have been cheap punts, successful with likes of Westwood or disasters in shape of Tonev.

 

No, our position isn't OK, but it's too short sighted to blame it all on Lambert. We used to have likes of Young and Milner but they left and we got NZogbia and Bent, then they were bombed out and we could get likes of Westwood and Benteke, then Benteke gets injured... Keep taking away the quality and you end up down the wrong end of the table REGARDLESS of manager.

 

These players last year arguably over performed (see Lowton POTS to today, Weimann and even Benteke) and think we nearly all agree that Luna was/is better than Bennett and Betrand better than both of them. Lambert is responsible for that too.

 

I really am not Pro-Lambert or looking for positives but I genuinely can not see how any other manager would have done much better. Lerner's famous statement even highlights these constraints. This squad has been stripped from top to bottom; our first team the other day with Guzan, Baker, Clark, Delph, Albrighton and Gabby were all here with MON when we were 6th but not playing because we had better players. We have now sold these players and not replaced them so worse players are now in the first XI.

 

The players do seem to put in effort, they do seem to care they're simply just not good enough. Lambert is at fault to some degree, he has made mistakes, but not enough for me to not see WHY he's made those mistakes - lack of investment. I think few would argue that another manager could get THIS bunch playing better so it's about buying better quality and another seven £2m buys aren't going to do that in the best league in the world. It really is as simple as that.

No it isn't really as simple as that.

It was Lambert's choice was it not to strip the team of experience players and then form the bomb squad with those players making them worthless to prospective buyers.

It was his choice was it not to then replace those players with lower league or players from europe not used to playing in the Premiership.

It was his choice was it not to to bring in Tonev, Kozak, Helenius, Bowery, Bennett, Luna, Sylla, Westwood, Steer, when we already had Albrighton, Bent, Weimann, Lichaj, Delfouneso, Bannan, Given and would we not have been better off by keeping Collins and paring him with Vlaar. He could have also used one or two of our better youngsters as squad fillers. No-one is going to make me accept that one set of those players are better than the other.

Yes wages. But are we not still paying the wages of some of those players with Bent back in the summer so what difference would it have made.

He has substituted in the main average to good Premiership experience with just average championship players and you wonder why we have struggled so badly under him.

Given that those new players needed all the help they could get he then, if rumours are correct, presided over bullying tactics by his appointed coaches in training and you then wonder again why those players have been playing without motivation and confidence.

Might we also consider the constant changes in system which Lambert has presided over because his many blunders in the transfer market couldn't produce the required level of football to get decent consistent results in the Premiership.

And just maybe we should consider that finally he realised the error of his ways last January by targeting more experience but after wasting most of his limited budget on absolute shite, the same shite who he doesn't want to play in the team anymore, he didn't have the budget to bring that experience back into the team again.

No it isn't as simple as no other manager couldn't have done any better under the circumstances as it is quite possible is it not that another more savy manager wouldn't have made the same mistakes as Lambert.

[Stevo985]

His budget has been enough that we shouldn't be fighting for our lives, again, come week 37 of a season.

I agree.

 

 

My problem is, I'm still not convinced that Lambert won't be a success elsewhere.

Will he be winning league titles and Champions Leagues? I highly doubt it.

 

But I think he's capable of being a good manager, at least better than he's shown here.

I just feel like there's something wrong at Villa and changing the manager won't be enough to fix that.

 

I'm not absolving Lambert of blame, far from it. He deserves stick, especially for the second half of this season which has been, frankly, unacceptable regardless of circumstances.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not convinced that, if things at Villa were perfect, Lambert couldn't do good, if not great, things with the club.

 

However, neither am I confident enough of that hunch to trust Lambert if, say, we did get taken over and have a huge transfer warchest to spend. I'm not sure I'd be too happy with that money being in Lambert's hands.

 

I guess I'm on the fence. I don't think Lambert should continue to be manager of Villa after this season. I'm settled on that. It's time for him to go, the fit isn't right.

But neither am I convinced that he's a bad manager. Like I've said before, there are more things wrong with this club, and I have a hunch that Lambert will leave us and do well elsewhere and that our new manager, whoever it is, will struggle in a similar fashion in charge of us.

[Zatman]

I think sometimes the club is too big for a manager and that's what happened with Lambert. Villa job is a poisoned chalice similar to the England job and it takes a special type of character to get to grasps with it

[Nigel]

i would be intrigued to see lamberts head to head record against mcleishs. i suspect there is not much in it.

You would have to compare the resources to make it a fair comparison though!