Con Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 You mean educated enough to keep it to yourself? People from all backgrounds and 'classes' harbour these views. They are just more subtle in how they act about it. I agree my working class/middle class cultural divide is a generalisation only. I've used the word "generally." One's views are not completely determined by one's background. However, I would say that middle classes are generally more tolerant than the poorer classes. This does not necessarily mean they are better people. Sometimes they are more tolerant because they can afford to separate themselves from their subtle prejudices, and everything always looks nicer from a distance. Let's not confuse the middle classes with the upper classes though who if we are to generalise again are quite frequently openly racist and sexist etc. (e.g. Prince Phillip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 can we lock this please? Im losing faith in humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well this seems to have gone wildly off topic. Getting back to Mackay, he won't be punished for what he said, I don't think he's broken any laws. He has broken club rules though and agreed to give up his right to privacy when using a club phone, it's no different to sending dodgy emails round the office so he can have no complaints there. I suspect he will never work in management again though. Could you trust him with funds if you were a chairman? Could you respect him as a manager if you were a black or Asian player? A dressing room led by him would be toxic. And he only has himself to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The more they wipe out the more they will grow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The more they wipe out the more they will grow.. It was the invasion of Iraq that created ISIS. The yanks know what they are doing, they always have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well I think the Iraq war was about securing the oil fields but anyway this is digressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Take it to the Iraq thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well I think the Iraq war was about securing the oil fields but anyway this is digressing It probably was but now they have another nuisance/reason to make their next move. Yes we should probably move any further chat to the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mic09 Posted August 22, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2014 The more they wipe out the more they will grow.. It was the invasion of Iraq that created ISIS. The yanks know what they are doing, they always have done. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 You mean educated enough to keep it to yourself? People from all backgrounds and 'classes' harbour these views. They are just more subtle in how they act about it. I agree my working class/middle class cultural divide is a generalisation only. I've used the word "generally." One's views are not completely determined by one's background. However, I would say that middle classes are generally more tolerant than the poorer classes. This does not necessarily mean they are better people. Sometimes they are more tolerant because they can afford to separate themselves from their subtle prejudices, and everything always looks nicer from a distance. Let's not confuse the middle classes with the upper classes though who if we are to generalise again are quite frequently openly racist and sexist etc. (e.g. Prince Phillip). The highlighted quote is very questionable. It's easy to assume that working class people are more bigoted when you look at the composition of the BNP, EDL etc. But there's a style barrier between entry to these groups and middle class racists, who may be extremely bigoted but still not favour 'direct action', marches, or boots in the street. Open racism can still easily be found in the middle class, though - witness the UKIP councillor the other day who merrily described a Thai supporter as a 'ting tong from somewhere', sounding happy and totally blase as she did it. Dragging this comment back on-topic, class and upbringing are unlikely to be a major factor in M & M's decision that these things were fine to send using a company phone. Sheer stupidity is a much better explanation. As to what should happen next, neither of them should be hired again. The callousness on display should count against them in any future interview situation. Take Kim Bo-Kyung for instance. The lad was 21 when he moved to Cardiff. He'd never played in Europe before, and it's a completely different culture. He may well have had difficulty getting settled, finding a house, coping with his new surroundings. Could he have taken any of those concerns to members of staff who were making racist jokes about him behind his back, and actually been helped? It doesn't seem likely. And can people please take the amateur armchair theorising about the Middle East to the appropriate thread in off-topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Vive_La-Villa your views are surprising me considering you're Asian. Edited August 22, 2014 by Voinjama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Vive_La-Villa your views are surprising me considering you're Asian. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Well having been on the receiving end of racism yourself, I thought you would be able to clearly see how despicable it is what Mackay has done. How you can defend his actions is beyond me. Edited August 22, 2014 by Voinjama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Well having been on the receiving end of racism yourself, I thought you would be able to clearly see how despicable it is what Mackay has done. How you can defend his actions is beyond me. The racism I experienced was to my face. A deliberate attempt to hurt and humiliate me because of my colour and no other reason. It's completely different to what Mackay did. Also where have I defended him? What he did was wrong and very stupid. Despicable? Give me a break. Are you White British? It's quite ironic how White British seem to be the most offended by his text messages. Edited August 22, 2014 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottle Maker Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Well I think the Iraq war was about securing the oil fields but anyway this is digressing Well I think the Iraq war was about securing the oil fields but anyway this is digressing I thought it was because he made Bush,s daddy cry Edited August 22, 2014 by Bottle Maker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well having been on the receiving end of racism yourself, I thought you would be able to clearly see how despicable it is what Mackay has done. How you can defend his actions is beyond me. The racism I experienced was to my face. A deliberate attempt to hurt and humiliate me because of my colour and no other reason. It's completely different to what Mackay did. Also where have I defended him? What he did was wrong and very stupid. Despicable? Give me a break. Are you White British? It's quite ironic how White British seem to be the most offended by his text messages. His racism is deeply entrenched to the point where it even affected his transfer dealings among other things. Systemic racism is much worse than someone shouting racial slurs in your face in a deliberate attempt to hurt you, and I'm surprised that as a person of colour you don't seem too bothered by it. People like him should have no place in mainstream society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Well having been on the receiving end of racism yourself, I thought you would be able to clearly see how despicable it is what Mackay has done. How you can defend his actions is beyond me.The racism I experienced was to my face. A deliberate attempt to hurt and humiliate me because of my colour and no other reason. It's completely different to what Mackay did. Also where have I defended him? What he did was wrong and very stupid. Despicable? Give me a break. Are you White British? It's quite ironic how White British seem to be the most offended by his text messages. His racism is deeply entrenched to the point where it even affected his transfer dealings among other things. Systemic racism is much worse than someone shouting racial slurs in your face in a deliberate attempt to hurt you, and I'm surprised that as a person of colour you don't seem too bothered by it. People like him should have no place in mainstream society. Where is the proof it affected his transfer dealings? I agree systemic racism is the worst kind but I didn't read any proof of that. I read he sent stupid text messages which he probably thought were funny but clearly wernt. A person of colour? I find that quite offensive Edited August 23, 2014 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 23, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well having been on the receiving end of racism yourself, I thought you would be able to clearly see how despicable it is what Mackay has done. How you can defend his actions is beyond me.The racism I experienced was to my face. A deliberate attempt to hurt and humiliate me because of my colour and no other reason. It's completely different to what Mackay did. Also where have I defended him? What he did was wrong and very stupid. Despicable? Give me a break. Are you White British? It's quite ironic how White British seem to be the most offended by his text messages. I think offended is the wrong word. I think its terrible what he's done. But I'm not offended by it. I think it's terrible because, like o said before, these weren't jokes. This wasn't like me playfully telling my Chinese mate he looks like Jackie chan or someone telling me I like potatoes because I'm Irish. This was unfunny, unplayful, nasty racism. It wasn't a joke, they seem like normal messages. And that's the scary thing, because it suggests to me that that's how he thinks. It's entrenched in him. Has he done anything wrong? No not legally. If the average Joe down the pub had sent them I'd probably not think anything of it. But reputation wise he's done. This is a guy who should be managing squads of what will probably be in this day and age, mostly foreign and probably have a lot of black players. How could you employ someone to do that job with this hanging over them? How could a black/Chinese/Jewish player respect him as a manager after this? Big Ron was finished in the game after much less than this, IMO. I'd be very surprised if Makay finds himself employed as a manager any time soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Well having been on the receiving end of racism yourself, I thought you would be able to clearly see how despicable it is what Mackay has done. How you can defend his actions is beyond me. The racism I experienced was to my face. A deliberate attempt to hurt and humiliate me because of my colour and no other reason. It's completely different to what Mackay did. Also where have I defended him? What he did was wrong and very stupid. Despicable? Give me a break. Are you White British? It's quite ironic how White British seem to be the most offended by his text messages. His racism is deeply entrenched to the point where it even affected his transfer dealings among other things. Systemic racism is much worse than someone shouting racial slurs in your face in a deliberate attempt to hurt you, and I'm surprised that as a person of colour you don't seem too bothered by it. People like him should have no place in mainstream society. Where is the proof it affected his transfer dealings? I agree systemic racism is the worst kind but I didn't read any proof of that. I read he sent stupid text messages which he probably thought were funny but clearly wernt. A person of colour? I find that quite offensive No, I'm black. Not British either, but I don't see why a white British person shouldn't be offended? Racism has no place in any aspect of modern life, and to see someone in the mainstream, near the very top of a very popular and lucractive sport is not something to brush off simply because you're not on the receiving end of the racism. As for his transfer dealings from the texts, it's quite obvious that it did have an effect in that he seemed reluctant to bring in anyone who wasn't white. "Not many white faces among that lot but worth considering". "Fkn chinkys, fk it". The fact that their skin colour/race is even mentioned let alone factored is cause for alarm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Wasn't it three racist messages out of thousands? As a person of colour as one poster so nicely put it. I'd give him another chance. But you're probably right and his best bet may be to manage abroad for a few years. Edited August 23, 2014 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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