Malky Mackay and Iain Moody

[penguin]

Disgrace. In his attitudes, if not his actions, he is far worse than Evans. Embarrassing for football, Wigan should be ashamed.

Er what?

I think he's explained himself very succinctly. He's saying Ched Evans ACTIONS were obviously worse, but that Makay's attitudes are worse. I think that's a fair enough argument.

Right because someone who thinks its acceptable to send a few un-pc controversial texts is worse than someone who thinks its acceptable to rape someone.

Additionally the way I read it, it doesn't say Ched Evans's actions were obviously worse at all. Or he would have said "not his actions" or something more definite to that effect, not "if not his actions" which to me implies that there is some ambiguity.

Maybe I'm reading too much in to it, but it certainly isn't explained succinctly.

 

I thought it was fairly clear, but obviously not.

 

Evans actions were awful, and displayed arrogance, stupidity and a total lack of respect for a young woman. It was a one off event, even if we can speculate that they might represent his views towards the value of women generally. 

 

Mackay's texts, over an extended period, show him to be sexist, racist, anti-semite and homophobic. Evans has committed a daft and sinister act, Mackay has revealed himself to hold dark-age views across the board. Evans actions were clearly worse, but the I find the insight into Mackay's psyche at least as troubling. I can't believe he's found work again so fast. I'd be boycotting Wigan if they were my club.

 

Okay fair enough. Thanks for explaining clearly, did say I may be reading too much into it and it appears that was the case. Still think to say Mackay's attitude is far worse is absolutely absurd especially given the fact Evans is still maintaining he did nothing wrong but I guess that's just a matter of opinion.

 

It appeared that you were confused. It was hard to tell from a two word response. Sorry if I misunderstood you. Thanks for the rolly eyes, very patronising

No problem, well done for noticing

[Condimentalist]

He's not saying he did nothing wrong, he's saying he's innocent of rape. It's quite a complex case, and it was certainly a surprising conviction, although I struggle to pity him because whether it's technically rape or not it was clearly callous and abhorrent. My own opinion on Evans is that he's just a bit of a weak character and was goaded into it by his team mate, trying to play the lad. Mackay's text were less damaging, of course, but revealed something even more sinister about his way of thinking.

[TrentVilla]

He's not saying he did nothing wrong, he's saying he's innocent of rape. It's quite a complex case, and it was certainly a surprising conviction, although I struggle to pity him because whether it's technically rape or not it was clearly callous and abhorrent. My own opinion on Evans is that he's just a bit of a weak character and was goaded into it by his team mate, trying to play the lad. Mackay's text were less damaging, of course, but revealed something even more sinister about his way of thinking.

 

More jumps than a serious of Quantum Leap if you don't mind me saying. (some people really won't have a clue what that is)

 

I'm not so sure I agree it was a surprising conviction, other than its quite surprising when any footballer actually gets convicted of something. As for if "it's technically rape or not", it was, he was convicted and has since lost an appeal. I think to suggest he was goaded into it is factually incorrect.

 

As for Mackay, I'm disappointed to see him given a job as my posts earlier in this thread show but I think its a stretch to say his text's show some sinister intent or way of thinking. They might, and they are seriously bad taste but they might just be very ill advised bad taste humour. Personally I doubt it but there is no way in the world I think he should be viewed in a worse light than a man convicted or rape.

[penguin]

Personally, the only thing I get the impression he is showing remorse for is the fact he cheated on his girlfriend. Anyway, will certainly agree with you in the fact that Mackay has been shown to have some very callous and outdated views. But can't say I haven't heard similar things in the pub etc, not condoning it especially in the workplace, but imo it was a very extreme comparison.

[Condimentalist]

Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't really want to get into the Evans case, and certainly not in this thread. I can't pity either of them, but there is absolutely no place in football or anywhere else for the sort of views that Mackay holds, and it makes me extremely angry that he's walked back into a job within months. I also don't buy that it's somehow better because it was 'text banter'. If you don't hold the views, you don't send the texts. 

[TrentVilla]

 there is absolutely no place in football or anywhere else for the sort of views that Mackay holds, and it makes me extremely angry that he's walked back into a job within months. 

 

On that I absolutely agree.

 

Sadly it should probably come as no surprise, time and time again clubs take players and managers on despite their actions. Just another example of how money has morally bankrupted most clubs.

[blandy]

 

...there is absolutely no place in football or anywhere else for the sort of views that Mackay holds...

Just for the sake of discussion, not to disagree with the sentiment, but anyway

1. The neanderthal idiotic text messages he sent was a case of a person sending 3 idiotic texts, in private, to another (presumably) idiot.

This is not a hanging offence. It is not a "there is no place for this in society" issue. Unfortunately there are places in society for that type of private behaviour. I imagine those places include the Police force, UKIPs, the BNP, the Army, Football clubs and many, many others.

The bloke has been undergoing some diversity education, and that's a very good thing.

He's recongnised that the private behaviour which was exposed was wrong.

His reputation is forever tainted.

Giving him a job is not a crime or a sin. It's not morally wrong. It's not the case that Football has somehow let itself down again, or fallen further into the gutter.

It's a bloke who sent some boneheaded texts to his mate, got found out, underwent training to rectify his apparent appalling attitude to women and asian and black people being given a job. He's apologised and certainly sounded genuine and seems to have genuinely taken penance.

it's not like the rapist thing.

Move along.

[TrentVilla]

Looks like Whelan has just added to this story... there is a story emerging that he has made an ill advised comment about Jewish people.

[R.I.C.O.]

"Jewish people chase money more than anyone else" is what he was reported as saying.

 

Can't see how he can survive that, blatant anti-semitism.

 

But he broke his leg in an FA Cup final though? Can he use that as an excuse?

[Dodgyknees]

Still a tosser then.

Edited November 20, 2014 by DK82

[The_Rev]

Well, one of Wigan's main sponsors (Premier Range) have pulled out of their deal with the club because of Mackay's appointment.

[maqroll]

Seems Wigan is perfect for Mackay, given Whelan's attitudes. Peas of a pod.

[Oaks]

Is old Dave trying to out racist him? Or trying to steal the headlines? Or just that stupid?

[chappy]

He broke his leg in a cup final though, leave him be

[ml1dch]

"Jewish people chase money more than anyone else" is what he was reported as saying.

 

Can't see how he can survive that, blatant anti-semitism.

Survive it?

 

What consequences is he likely to face? 

[Condimentalist]

...there is absolutely no place in football or anywhere else for the sort of views that Mackay holds...

Just for the sake of discussion, not to disagree with the sentiment, but anyway

1. The neanderthal idiotic text messages he sent was a case of a person sending 3 idiotic texts, in private, to another (presumably) idiot.

This is not a hanging offence. It is not a "there is no place for this in society" issue. Unfortunately there are places in society for that type of private behaviour. I imagine those places include the Police force, UKIPs, the BNP, the Army, Football clubs and many, many others.

The bloke has been undergoing some diversity education, and that's a very good thing.

He's recongnised that the private behaviour which was exposed was wrong.

His reputation is forever tainted.

Giving him a job is not a crime or a sin. It's not morally wrong. It's not the case that Football has somehow let itself down again, or fallen further into the gutter.

It's a bloke who sent some boneheaded texts to his mate, got found out, underwent training to rectify his apparent appalling attitude to women and asian and black people being given a job. He's apologised and certainly sounded genuine and seems to have genuinely taken penance.

it's not like the rapist thing.

Move along.

Sorry Pete, I just can't agree with you. Like I said earlier, if you don't hold the views you don't send the text. I think it's appalling that somebody who has exposed his disgraceful positions on these issues is allowed to walk back into a job within months, and I absolutely do think it reflects badly on the game.

[MrDuck]

Whelan seems to be one of the many of his generation that simply don't get it. As well as the Jewish thing mentioned above, he defended Mackay calling the Chinese "chinks" (Chink originates as a term of abuse for Asians, it's basically the direct equivalent of nigger) saying he doesn't believe it's an offensive term. Unbelievable.

 

If I was Ched Evans, I'd be getting my agent on the phone to Whelan right away...

[NurembergVillan]

For the sake of an argument -

Sending those silly texts to his mate doesn't make him any more of a racist than saying you'd DHUTWU about a woman makes you a rapist.

Saying or texting something is one thing. Doing something is very different.

In this instance we're essentially saying Mackay shouldn't be allowed to work because he committed a thought crime. That's dodgy territory even amongst proprietors of Twitter-era moral indignation.

[penguin]

For the sake of an argument -

Sending those silly texts to his mate doesn't make him any more of a racist than saying you'd DHUTWU about a woman makes you a rapist.

Saying or texting something is one thing. Doing something is very different.

In this instance we're essentially saying Mackay shouldn't be allowed to work because he committed a thought crime. That's dodgy territory even amongst proprietors of Twitter-era moral indignation.

Exactly my opinion, with your first point at least.

Pretty sure if you went through my phone, or a large section of the population, you'd be able to make a case I/they am/are

racist or sexist etc by picking out isolated texts, which isn't the case at all, couldn't disagree more with the notion if you don't hold the view you wouldn't send the text in some cases, at the risk of sounding like an idiotic "lad", it is just mindless banter. Also at the risk of being massivley condescending can't help but feel some people just need to take a step back and not take every thing so literally, maybe not the best word but best I can think of atm, especially those continuing this comparison with a convicted rapist.

Edited November 21, 2014 by penguin

[heid3ster]

Whelan seems to be one of the many of his generation that simply don't get it. As well as the Jewish thing mentioned above, he defended Mackay calling the Chinese "chinks" (Chink originates as a term of abuse for Asians, it's basically the direct equivalent of nigger) saying he doesn't believe it's an offensive term. Unbelievable.

 

If I was Ched Evans, I'd be getting my agent on the phone to Whelan right away...

 

“If any Englishman said he has never called a Chinaman a chink he is lying,” Whelan said. That's jaw-droppingly ignorant. "I know we don't call them Chinks anymore, they're Chinamen now."

 

Wigan’s Dave Whelan accused of antisemitism in new controversy

 

Dave Whelan has been accused of antisemitism after the Wigan Athletic owner told the Guardian he believes “Jewish people chase money more than everybody else”.

 

A Chinese community leader, Jenny Wong, also said Whelan was condoning racism by saying it is “nothing” to call a Chinese person a “chink”.

 

The comments came on the day one of Wigan’s shirt sponsors, the kitchen appliances firm Premier Range, announced it was ending its agreement with the club, describing its position as “untenable”. They were followed by another sponsor, the energy drinks firm Ipro.