Malky Mackay and Iain Moody

[PaulC]

I'm not sure what I think about this. I don't agree with homophobia or racism but these are private texts between two people. I don't think its comparable to what Ron did. It will cost him his opportunity of another job in the Premier League but I don't think it should cost him permanently. Everybody makes mistakes. It should not be held against him for the rest of his life. 

 

George Orwell predicted this big brother society....

[samjp26]

I'm not sure what I think about this. I don't agree with homophobia or racism but these are private texts between two people. I don't think its comparable to what Ron did. It will cost him his opportunity of another job in the Premier League but I don't think it should cost him permanently. Everybody makes mistakes. It should not be held against him for the rest of his life. 

 

George Orwell predicted this big brother society....

 

It was via a work phone to a colleague

[maqroll]

Mackay is young enough that he should be able to recover from this. He just needs to make the apology rounds and then disappear for a year. I'm sure some small lower league club will be tempted to hire him then. And he can do his penance on bus rides to Scunthorpe and Plymouth.. If he does good enough, he might get another shot at the top. 

[KennyPowers]

I can't help but think this story is highlighting a real football culture clash. 

 

There's a big percentage (who knows how big) who think it is okay to make offensive comments as long as comments are made casually or in jest.

 

Then there's another generation (on average younger and more metropolitan) who think that no it isn't okay under any circumstances. 

 

It's a tough balance for the mainstream media and football in general to condemn the text messages without alienating a lot of their audience. 

[Stevo985]

I think if these were more "playful" comments then it wouldn't be a big deal seeing as they were made in private.

 

But like I said before, these aren't casual jokes, things that you can say "well we've all made jokes like that before, he's probably not actually like that".

 

These are quite vindictive comments, that to me at least, suggest they are views held by the person making them.

[maqroll]

It's this kind of attitude that made John Fashanu and Graeme Le Saux and I'm sure many more feel like they were being persecuted for just being themselves. And Le Saux wasn't even homosexual, he was just perceived as such, or maybe just perceived as someone who, because he didn't join in with the banter, was worth targeting. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I can't help but think this story is highlighting a real football culture clash.

There's a big percentage (who knows how big) who think it is okay to make offensive comments as long as comments are made casually or in jest.

Then there's another generation (on average younger and more metropolitan) who think that no it isn't okay under any circumstances.

It's a tough balance for the mainstream media and football in general to condemn the text messages without alienating a lot of their audience.

Well considering the backlash and the talk of him never managing again I'd say our society in general doesn't think it is acceptable at all and quite the opposite.

I personally think yes he **** up and considering he has just lost out on a new job he has been punished. People are sitting on their high horse condemning the guy yet at the same time want his livelihood destroyed over a few stupid text messages.

[samjp26]

 

I can't help but think this story is highlighting a real football culture clash.

There's a big percentage (who knows how big) who think it is okay to make offensive comments as long as comments are made casually or in jest.

Then there's another generation (on average younger and more metropolitan) who think that no it isn't okay under any circumstances.

It's a tough balance for the mainstream media and football in general to condemn the text messages without alienating a lot of their audience.

Well considering the backlash and the talk of him never managing again I'd say our society in general doesn't think it is acceptable at all and quite the opposite.

I personally think yes he **** up and considering he has just lost out on a new job he has been punished. People are sitting on their high horse condemning the guy yet at the same time want his livelihood destroyed over a few stupid text messages.

 

 

I really don't understand how you think people are sitting on their high horse?

[maqroll]

While I believe Mackay deserves to be sanctioned over this (and he has), I also believe in redemption. He should be afforded the chance to make amends. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I can't help but think this story is highlighting a real football culture clash.

There's a big percentage (who knows how big) who think it is okay to make offensive comments as long as comments are made casually or in jest.

Then there's another generation (on average younger and more metropolitan) who think that no it isn't okay under any circumstances.

It's a tough balance for the mainstream media and football in general to condemn the text messages without alienating a lot of their audience.

Well considering the backlash and the talk of him never managing again I'd say our society in general doesn't think it is acceptable at all and quite the opposite.

I personally think yes he **** up and considering he has just lost out on a new job he has been punished. People are sitting on their high horse condemning the guy yet at the same time want his livelihood destroyed over a few stupid text messages.

I really don't understand how you think people are sitting on their high horse?

Ok what do you think his punishment should be?

[samjp26]

 

 

 

I can't help but think this story is highlighting a real football culture clash.

There's a big percentage (who knows how big) who think it is okay to make offensive comments as long as comments are made casually or in jest.

Then there's another generation (on average younger and more metropolitan) who think that no it isn't okay under any circumstances.

It's a tough balance for the mainstream media and football in general to condemn the text messages without alienating a lot of their audience.

Well considering the backlash and the talk of him never managing again I'd say our society in general doesn't think it is acceptable at all and quite the opposite.

I personally think yes he **** up and considering he has just lost out on a new job he has been punished. People are sitting on their high horse condemning the guy yet at the same time want his livelihood destroyed over a few stupid text messages.

I really don't understand how you think people are sitting on their high horse?

Ok what do you think his punishment should be?

 

 

Nobody has called for a "punishment" per se, but the fact of the matter is this would never have been known had Cardiff not taken it to the FA. Mackay would never have apologised for it, we'd never have known it happened and more than likely he'd have continued with his "banter". That is why I think it shows even more so that these comments, not jokes, really do reflect on his personality.

 

As I said the other day, an ex-youth player for Cardiff said it happened an awful lot when he was there from Mackay and it didn't surprise him that this had came out. Should he manage another football club again? Personally I don't think so and I don't think that is a punishment, it is just consequences for his own actions. 

 

I'd also like to add that nobody has called for his livelihood to be destroyed and if in fact that does happen, it will be because of him destroying it himself.

Edited August 22, 2014 by samjp26

[Vive_La_Villa]

His livelihood is from football management. If he should never manage again isn't that his livelihood destroyed?

He should manage again and hopefully he regrets what he did and will manage again.

[Con]

 

As I said the other day, an ex-youth player for Cardiff said it happened an awful lot when he was there from Mackay and it didn't surprise him that this had came out. Should he manage another football club again? Personally I don't think so and I don't think that is a punishment, it is just consequences for his own actions. 

 

 

It's a slippery slope when you start to ban people from an occupation simply based on things they have said.

[Vive_La_Villa]

As I said the other day, an ex-youth player for Cardiff said it happened an awful lot when he was there from Mackay and it didn't surprise him that this had came out. Should he manage another football club again? Personally I don't think so and I don't think that is a punishment, it is just consequences for his own actions.

It's a slippery slope when you start to ban people from an occupation simply based on things they have said.

I think it's ridiculous to even suggest that.

[Con]

 

 

As I said the other day, an ex-youth player for Cardiff said it happened an awful lot when he was there from Mackay and it didn't surprise him that this had came out. Should he manage another football club again? Personally I don't think so and I don't think that is a punishment, it is just consequences for his own actions.

It's a slippery slope when you start to ban people from an occupation simply based on things they have said.

I think it's ridiculous to even suggest that.

 

 

Of course it's ridiculous.

 

Even if you did try to enforce that rule there will inevitably be abuse of the system. Some people who know other people - nudge, nudge, wink, wink - will be allowed to get away with saying proscribed things. Other people who don't have the same contacts will be stamped on - even for things they never said, as people could make up stuff about other people.

 

We should all have a better sense of humour. M&M were wrong but they've been punished enough now and we should laugh it off and expect them to do better next time.

[samjp26]

 

 

As I said the other day, an ex-youth player for Cardiff said it happened an awful lot when he was there from Mackay and it didn't surprise him that this had came out. Should he manage another football club again? Personally I don't think so and I don't think that is a punishment, it is just consequences for his own actions. 

 

 

It's a slippery slope when you start to ban people from an occupation simply based on things they have said.

 

 

In context it isn't though and I wouldn't say ban him, I just wouldn't expect clubs to touch him with a barge pole. This is a position that is constantly given media coverage, a position where he is in direct contact and direct view of people of many races and cultures, sexualities, male and female.

 

Vive La Villa is talking as if Mackay is some sort of victim and in a way he is, but only to his own actions, not to anybody elses actions. 

 

"His livelihood is from football management. If he should never manage again isn't that his livelihood destroyed?" 

 

If he genuinely didn't manage again, how is that anybody else's fault but his own?

Of course it's ridiculous.

 

Even if you did try to enforce that rule there will inevitably be abuse of the system. Some people who know other people - nudge, nudge, wink, wink - will be allowed to get away with saying proscribed things. Other people who don't have the same contacts will be stamped on - even for things they never said, as people could make up stuff about other people.

 

We should all have a better sense of humour. M&M were wrong but they've been punished enough now and we should laugh it off and expect them to do better next time.

 

 

You're actually deluded.

Edited August 22, 2014 by samjp26

[Vive_La_Villa]

Thing is sampjp just because you have never sent what's deemed as a racist, homophobic or sexist text in your life it doesn't mean that all people that have are bad people. It also doesn't mean these people really believe those views and live their life by them.

If they did really have those views it doesn't mean they will always have those views and never change them.

[Con]

 

In context it isn't though and I wouldn't say ban him, I just wouldn't expect clubs to touch him with a barge pole. This is a position that is constantly given media coverage, a position where he is in direct contact and direct view of people of many races and cultures, sexualities, male and female.

 

If no clubs want him then fair enough. However, I suspect he could get another job and the only way to stop him working again would be a set of rules banning sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic and racist language from being used, which should be obeyed at all times wifout question.

 

 

Vive La Villa is talking as if Mackay is some sort of victim and in a way he is, but only to his own actions, not to anybody elses actions. 

 

"His livelihood is from football management. If he should never manage again isn't that his livelihood destroyed?" 

 

If he genuinely didn't manage again, how is that anybody else's fault but his own?

 

He's not a victim right now. But you could make him a victim through excessive punishment. I think that's the point Vive La Villa is making.

 

If he didn't work again that won't be his fault because he almost certainly could work again.

[KennyPowers]

I think if these were more "playful" comments then it wouldn't be a big deal seeing as they were made in private.

 

But like I said before, these aren't casual jokes, things that you can say "well we've all made jokes like that before, he's probably not actually like that".

 

These are quite vindictive comments, that to me at least, suggest they are views held by the person making them.

 

From what I've read I wouldn't describe the comments as vindictive. 

 

The most damning thing is that it's more than reasonable to assume that Mackay has been making comments like this his whole life and he's probably said a lot worse things in private. There's no real way Mackay can say I made a mistake with some text messages, he has almost certainly talked like this his whole adult life and believes it's acceptable (at least in private) .

 

Given he's been in football his adult life it's fair to assume he's been shaped by football culture and that a lot of people in football speak like this and that's the uncomfortable thing for football (fans, players and staff) to come to terms with.

[samjp26]

I give up