Malky Mackay and Iain Moody

[Eames]

I completely agree with that blandy, particularly the last line but only to the point that as you say that is all that can realistically be done.

 

However I'm not sure that that is enough that someone in his position should then be able to simply return to a position they previously held. You seem to be suggesting that footballers/managers are held to different standards or judged differently because they are footballers/managers and while I think that is true, I perhaps think it is true in a different way.

 

If I were to hold/express the views he seemingly has and be exposed for it within my company, industry I would be out of a job and I suspect I'd find it almost impossible to find another one at the same level. So regardless of if I went on a course I would be held accountable for my actions and punished in terms of my career because of them.

 

So footballers/managers are treated differently because if anything they are actually able to get away with far more than many other people in society. 

Thing is Trent, the difference  between you (as far as I know) and Malky/Ched or whoever, is that their talents, skills and abilities are taken from a tiny talent pool. To the point where players and to a lesser extent managers are not employees, they are assets that in theory add value to a club. 

 

PR liabilities they may be, but if Malky gets Wigan promoted this season or next - the loss of a sponsor and the temporary PR shitstorm will be dwarfed by the gain of Premier League football. 

[blandy]

I think you're right Eames that he got the job because of his percieved abaility to get Wigan playing well etc. and that Whelan is much more bothered about that, with the rewards on offer, than the fact he sent some bile by text.

It's a shame in a way, and that part is grubby and indicative of the way football is all about money and the promise of money.

I still think the "punishment" for sending text messages whould be based around education and so on, rather than a period of (further) unemployment.

I struggle to think of a "normal" industry where the content of legal and private messages would lead to a straight sacking, even if unpleasant or racist. It would probably be illegal to sack someone for the legal content of their private communications.

I suppose you could argue that some of the texts were work related, or on a works phone (I dunno) and therefore not wholly "private", but it's not clear cut, to me.

[TrentVilla]

Which is kind of my point, footballers and managers are treated differently but not in an adverse way as was being suggested they are in reality more favourable treated.

 

Small point of order blandy, he wasn't sacked by anyone for those messages and while they may have been private messages they were on work devices which is how they were discovered, which would be a disciplinary issue in most companies.

[ChrisVillan]

Has it ever been cleared up whether he was using work devices or accounts? I'd expect a pretty severe reprimand if I did racisms on work devices. Maybe he did - probably doesn't reflect well on Tan that it was either kept private or didn't happen, then came out later.

[TrentVilla]

My understanding of it was that it was on work devices (which is why it would become a disciplinary issue) but didn't come to light until he left Cardiff and the records were looked at because Tan was looking for evidence in relation to transfer activity. He then waited to inform the FA of this just as he was set for the Palace job.

[blandy]

Which is kind of my point, footballers and managers are treated differently but not in an adverse way as was being suggested they are in reality more favourable treated.

 

Small point of order blandy, he wasn't sacked by anyone for those messages and while they may have been private messages they were on work devices which is how they were discovered, which would be a disciplinary issue in most companies.

I don't agree with the first point, Trent. If anything they are generally treated more harshly.

 

I know he wasn't sacked for it - he'd already been sacked. And yes it would be a disciplinary issue, but I'd wager it wouldn't automatically lead to a sacking, but to a warning and hopefully to some retraining.

Where I do agree is that with such a thing on your record, in many (though not all) industries, it'd be hard to get another job. I think that was Eames' point, with which I agreed.

Politics, Sport, the Film and TV industry, the media - the types of places we tend to read about more often, people get "let back in". Same happens in manufacturing, and places with good union representation, too.

[TrentVilla]

I don't agree with the first point, Trent. If anything they are generally treated more harshly.

 

Politics, Sport, the Film and TV industry, the media - the types of places we tend to read about more often, people get "let back in". Same happens in manufacturing, and places with good union representation, too.

 

 

I might be missing something, probably I am, but these two points to me seem to be contradictory although I've no experience in manufacturing or strongly unionised work places.

[krisagg75]

i'm glad mackay has the job at wigan

the right  manager for the right chairman.

[heid3ster]

Does no one hire publicity advisors anymore?

[kurtsimonw]

Sending those silly texts to his mate doesn't make him any more of a racist than saying you'd DHUTWU about a woman makes you a rapist.

Well that analogy doesn't work.

Yeah, the anology was a bad one, but I agree with his point.

As for being treated differently. If I were a doctor and sent a racist text to someone. I think there's 0% chance I never get another role as a doctor. I truly do not think they would care if I were good enough for the job.

[AVFCforever1991]

Does no one hire publicity advisors anymore?

 

Dave Whelan did but he quit because he was a Chinese Jew...

[romavillan]

If the Kick it Out people are serious, and if the FA is serious about how the Kick It Out campaign is perceived then they have to do something about Whelan and Mackay. You can't have them pair applauding a kick it out banner and then the stuff like the Guardian interview coming out. After all the protestations of Mackay, publicly having to deny being a racist homophobe, then the man giving him a job almost immediately getting in to hot water for let's generously call it '70s terminology in reference to a couple of the world's cultures looks really, really bad.

 

All it needs now is UKIP to win in Wigan and for the candidate to give an interview in a wigan shirt at the DW stadium about repatriation of foreigners...
 

[Ghost]

I wonder what the players at Wigan are thinking.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

What will I spend all my money on today, most likely.

[MakemineVanilla]

There is a very real danger that we start believing that the only kind of people who are totally determined by their genes, and therefore unalterable and irredeemable, are racists.

[blandy]

excuse me?

[MakemineVanilla]

excuse me?

 

Rather than assume that Mackay and his ilk are irredeemable racists, who should be denied employment or cast from society as pariahs, it should be assumed that they are just idiotic, ignorant, boorish ****wits, and just rehabilitate them by sending them on what they call a 'sensitivity' course.

[blandy]

Yep. Agree completely. Even Whelan.

[leviramsey]

Sorry Pete, I just can't agree with you. Like I said earlier, if you don't hold the views you don't send the text. I think it's appalling that somebody who has exposed his disgraceful positions on these issues is allowed to walk back into a job within months, and I absolutely do think it reflects badly on the game.

You wouldn't be posting that holding racist views and expressing them by text is worse than holding the view that women aren't full people and raping them unless you hold the view that the former is worse than the latter.

From that, I can only conclude, in my opinion, that you probably are a rapist, or maybe just wish you had the cojones to rape.

[penguin]