Mic09 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 There are many reasons why England are no good. Too many foreign players in our top leagues, not enough quality in our players or coaching staff, lack of strength in depth, our best players are past their best etc. Also, look at how many of the best players from the top countries play outside of their own leagues. All of our players, last night, play in our own league. How many Uruguayans play in their own country? Overall, we just aren't good enough. I don't think I will ever see England win anything in my lifetime and I'm 42 now. I don't want to get into this argument (another thread) but too many foreigners argument is laughable. 1. English Premier League IS the best league in the world 2. Every one of English internationals is a starter at their club 3. That's right, because mr Chi or mr Kowalski are better than Smith and Murphy we should just get rid of them. I am sure that this will improve Smith and Murphy (because a lack of competition is very healthy for development isnt it). rubbish. I'd say take away the private chopper away from Barkley before he gets rotten as well... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 20, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2014 There are many reasons why England are no good. Too many foreign players in our top leagues, not enough quality in our players or coaching staff, lack of strength in depth, our best players are past their best etc. Also, look at how many of the best players from the top countries play outside of their own leagues. All of our players, last night, play in our own league. How many Uruguayans play in their own country? Overall, we just aren't good enough. I don't think I will ever see England win anything in my lifetime and I'm 42 now. I don't want to get into this argument (another thread) but too many foreigners argument is laughable. 1. English Premier League IS the best league in the world 2. Every one of English internationals is a starter at their club 3. That's right, because mr Chi or mr Kowalski are better than Smith and Murphy we should just get rid of them. I am sure that this will improve Smith and Murphy (because a lack of competition is very healthy for development isnt it). rubbish. I'd say take away the private chopper away from Barkley before he gets rotten as well... Correct. I started the thread about this and I stand by it. The argument that too many foreigners in the league is hurting the national team is, imo, nonsense. It's a go to excuse but there's no evidence for it at all. If anything, it's beneficial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Oh come on, just because they earn alot doesn't mean they don't care. I'm sure they are all hurting in the hotel at the moment. Nope, I don't agree. Name anyone in our team that plays with the heart and drive of Suarez ? Bear in mind, if any of them did he would not got into the positions he did with the ball. They might be hurting but not for the reasons you think, They will be of personal reasons only, ego's, sponsorship deals missed etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Oh come on, just because they earn alot doesn't mean they don't care. I'm sure they are all hurting in the hotel at the moment. Nope, I don't agree. Name anyone in our team that plays with the heart and drive of Suarez ? Bear in mind, if any of them did he would not got into the positions he did with the ball. They might be hurting but not for the reasons you think, They will be of personal reasons only, ego's, sponsorship deals missed etc. But it can't just be the money, can it, because Suarez earns as much, probably more than most of the England players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Suarez is just mental in that regard, I'm not sure there's a footballer in existence today who has a greater will to win than him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa_shere Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What does Woy do to justify his salary? Clueless! The FA need to come out and say what the future of our game is, not all this grassroot bollocks, im talking about style and tactics. Woys England is medeival. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 20, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2014 What does Woy do to justify his salary? Clueless! The FA need to come out and say what the future of our game is, not all this grassroot bollocks, im talking about style and tactics. Woys England is medeival. This is nonsense, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Oh come on, just because they earn alot doesn't mean they don't care. I'm sure they are all hurting in the hotel at the moment. Nope, I don't agree. Name anyone in our team that plays with the heart and drive of Suarez ? Bear in mind, if any of them did he would not got into the positions he did with the ball. They might be hurting but not for the reasons you think, They will be of personal reasons only, ego's, sponsorship deals missed etc. But it can't just be the money, can it, because Suarez earns as much, probably more than most of the England players? Agree on that, its not just the money, they just don't give a ****. Suarez plays like his family have been kidnapped and a gun is on the temple of his Mrs with the kidnappers watching the game. She lives if Uruguay win, loses fingers if he don't score at least one. Wearing the England shirt means they should ALL play like that ALL the time in my world, same when players pull on the Villa shirt. That is the attitude I would demand as manager. Anything less then **** off, simple as that. England players play like they are all trying to remember where their car keys are. Small but important difference I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AVFCforever1991 Posted June 20, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ahh, the myth of too many foreigners... If we had won, would that mean we had just the right amount of foreigners or?.... I think that whole way of thinking is just an excuse for xenophobia. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa_shere Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What does Woy do to justify his salary? Clueless! The FA need to come out and say what the future of our game is, not all this grassroot bollocks, im talking about style and tactics. Woys England is medeival. This is nonsense, basically. How exactly? Woy cruised the group stages like every other manager fair enough, but his team selection and tactics this torno was poor. The way we set up against Italy was so naive it was unreal. Why play Gerrard and Henderson and have them sit 10 yards off italys central midfield. We should have pressed them. Why play them again yesterday when they had nothing to do, we only needed one of them. With all the strikers on the pitch, in a random positions, how many clear cut chances did we create in two games? Where was the change in tactics when we where losing the game against Italy or yesterday. Again for the second highest paid manager in the world cup, i'd expect a whole lot more tactical nouse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ahh, the myth of too many foreigners... If we had won, would that mean we had just the right amount of foreigners or?.... I think that whole way of thinking is just an excuse for xenophobia. Give over. I don't happen to agree that it is the problem either, but put the racism card away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted June 20, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2014 The problem with English football is the way we coach the youth at grassroots level. It may not be the answer you want but it's the true answer. No countries train their kids like we do, whereby at the age of 8/9 years old they are playing on full sized pitches, and the kids who can kick the ball the furthest and score from 30yards out get picked week in week out, regardless of technical ability. That was definitely how it was when I was a kid, I drive past football pitches every now and again and see kids playing competitively on 11 aside pitches. It's just wrong and it needs to be changed. Kids shouldn't be playing on 11-aside pitches til they're 15/16. The only thing I think Woy could have done differently IMO is not pick Wellbeck considering how truly awful he was last season. Maybe not playing Rooney too. We are also lack a decent defensive midfielder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 20, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2014 What does Woy do to justify his salary? Clueless! The FA need to come out and say what the future of our game is, not all this grassroot bollocks, im talking about style and tactics. Woys England is medeival. This is nonsense, basically. How exactly? Woy cruised the group stages like every other manager fair enough, but his team selection and tactics this torno was poor. The way we set up against Italy was so naive it was unreal. Why play Gerrard and Henderson and have them sit 10 yards off italys central midfield. We should have pressed them. Why play them again yesterday when they had nothing to do, we only needed one of them. With all the strikers on the pitch, in a random positions, how many clear cut chances did we create in two games? Where was the change in tactics when we where losing the game against Italy or yesterday. Again for the second highest paid manager in the world cup, i'd expect a whole lot more tactical nouse. What strikers? We had Sturridge playing centre forward. Wellbeck playing as a wide attacker, which is his best position and Rooney playing either wide attacker, which isn't his best position admittedly, or behind Sturridge. Rooney is best at CF, and to be honest I'd agree with your post in as much as I'd have dropped him at times. I agree that Roy's tactics aren't the best. There as a bit of naiveity in the Italy game but that doesn't change the fact that we actually put in a decent performance and you can't blame him for picking the same team for the Uruguay game after that. His squad selection is good. He has taken more or less the best squad that was available to him imo. Yes there's the odd tweak you could make, no Smalling, could have brought Cole. But on the whole, when you consider he'll never please everyone, it's a very good squad. As for the starting lineup, again I think you could make the odd tweak. Drop Rooney and play someone else there maybe. Ideally Gerrard wouldn't be in there for reputation. But again, what more could he have done with the players available? Honest question, I don't know. I'd have picked a very similar starting lineup. Something went wrong against Uruguay. England looked panicked and they reverted back to the same old England. But that's the problem. We went backwards a step when, In my genuine honest opinion, Roy has taken us forward slightly and has us pointing in vaguely the right direction. Yeah he's not the best manager in the world. But for years we've been crying out for youth. He's done that. For years we've been crying out for a move from 4-4-2. He's done that. For year's we've been crying out for a more attacking approach. He's done that. For year's we've been crying out for the same old players not to be picked just because of reputation. Ok a couple are still fitting that category imo, Gerrard and Rooney mainly, but again he's tackled this problem somewhat. The easy option is just to fall back on the manager and say it's all his fault. But Roy is not medieval, as you put it. The absolute WORST thing we could do is sack Roy and replace him with the same old manager we usually get who'll play 4-4-2 with the same old players and we'll just be the same old England all over again. Stick with Roy or, if you do replace him, son't make it a snap decision. Make an intelligent choice who will carry on the very small steps that Roy has taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) The manager is to blame imo He did not change tactics from the Italy game, Uruguay were a completely different side who play a completely different way he could have changed the system to change things up and keep Uruguay guessing but no he bowed to media pressure and was too concerned with where to play Rooney in a system which was flawed and ineffective Just because we had a lot of decent young players does not mean you have to force them into a formation that was not working. Uruguay were playing extremely narrow last night and out fought us in the middle of the pitch we needed another body in there like Wilshere to compete or we could have played 3 at the back to contain Suarez with two wing backs to stretch the play in the wide area's and get at them down the flanks where they were vulnerable Edited June 20, 2014 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ahh, the myth of too many foreigners... If we had won, would that mean we had just the right amount of foreigners or?.... I think that whole way of thinking is just an excuse for xenophobia. I wouldn't say xenophobic. People look for excuses and we have (I believe) a higher percentage of foreign players than other top leagues in Europe. That's what people will look to. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference as we have been poor for 40 years, long before foreign players were so prevalent! Its not xenophobia though to look for reasons why we are so poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raver50032 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gutted - I wasted two bottled beers watching that... And it wasn't even a Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted June 20, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 20, 2014 "Drop Rooney" I stopped there he was our best player, he just had to much to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Everyone in the office angry and moaning. Predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Anyway as has already been mentioned, if Italy win both their remaining games, then an England win by any score against Costa Rica would put England through - just. Because Uruguay's other defeat was by a 2 goal margin. Edited June 20, 2014 by Voinjama 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Player will all develop at different rates and we all know that an English player will cost you double what you can buy a similar foreign player for. The opportunities for players to develop through the leagues is reduced because of this. None of this had an effect on the game last night when there was zero movement from our players at throw-ins, we have two kinds....long down the line for a flick on or throw to the man running in who taps back to the thrower. Thats the sum of the coaching, rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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