The Careers/Jobs thread

[Stevo985]

On 17/03/2017 at 18:15, StefanAVFC said:

Also to add, we employ across 3 languages and one of the two I mentioned, it was like he could barely speak English despite being fluent, and we were very close to not taking him because he needed fluent English.

yet here we are, he's comfortably the best member of my team, no language issues. We identified the nerves. Trusted his cv statement of fluency in English.

From my own experience with being interviewed so many people get off on the power of being an interviewer and/or lack the awareness to think 'yes this guy didn't interview amazingly but you can clearly tell he was nervous/his cv displays exactly what we're looking for.'

I agree with the general sentiment, but CVs can lie.

I'm interviewing for an analyst at the moment and obviously as a data analyst you need a decent level of competency in Excel (or something similar, in our case it's excel)

We interviewed a lady who had a great CV, interviewed brilliantly, claimed she was "proficient" at Excel.

Final thing we did was give a her a short competency test in Excel.

She couldn't answer a thing. Totally shit.

[lapal_fan]

12 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I agree with the general sentiment, but CVs can lie.

I'm interviewing for an analyst at the moment and obviously as a data analyst you need a decent level of competency in Excel (or something similar, in our case it's excel)

We interviewed a lady who had a great CV, interviewed brilliantly, claimed she was "proficient" at Excel.

Final thing we did was give a her a short competency test in Excel.

She couldn't answer a thing. Totally shit.

I'm a data analyst and am shit at Excel generally - I just use what I need to.

You shouldn't not employ someone over something which can be learned in a day or 2 - that's what is "totally shit".

If you think she had a great CV, then you should probably overlook something as trivial as learning a few **** formulas.

There's nothing on Excel which you can't google - making the problem even more moot.  She could learn how to do whatever is expected on an evening or two.

[Stevo985]

Just now, lapal_fan said:

I'm a data analyst and am shit at Excel generally - I just use what I need to.

You shouldn't not employ someone over something which can be learned in a day or 2 - that's what is "totally shit".

If you think she had a great CV, then you should probably overlook something as trivial as learning a few **** formulas.

There's nothing on Excel which you can't google - making the problem even more moot.  She could learn how to do whatever is expected on an evening or two.

No. She couldn't.

[Dr_Pangloss]

21 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I'm a data analyst and am shit at Excel generally - I just use what I need to.

You shouldn't not employ someone over something which can be learned in a day or 2 - that's what is "totally shit".

If you think she had a great CV, then you should probably overlook something as trivial as learning a few **** formulas.

There's nothing on Excel which you can't google - making the problem even more moot.  She could learn how to do whatever is expected on an evening or two.

A lot of analysts jobs have evolved beyond using Excel. My Excel is pretty good but spend most of my day using R, Python, SQL (S3/ Redshift). 

[lapal_fan]

3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

A lot of analysts jobs have evolved beyond using Excel. My Excel is pretty good but spend most of my day using R, Python, SQL (S3/ Redshift). 

Yeah I agree.  We're moving onto other reporting platforms which, provided the data is uploaded and verified, give you so much more visibility of the data sets we use (energy in my case).

Excel has been useful, but my God it's becoming antiquated.

Still find it useful for trackers, some monitoring etc.. But for BIG data, it's absolutely shit, and sometimes completely unstable.

I've always hated it lack of adaptability too, if that makes sense.  Everything has to be "on point", on Excel's terms, which aren't always mine.

But to not give someone a job, despite having a good CV because of it - in my opinion is stupid.  It's not hard to learn, and I doubt nobody could learn to use it for their purpose quickly.  Especially for finance.

That said, I have very limited details to go off, she might have no hands.

[Stevo985]

I'm helping to move things in a direction away from excel, but as things stand at the very least a decent competency in it is essential.

Despite your insistence, she couldn't learn what she needs to learn quickly. It would take months. I don't have that luxury at the moment.

I know everyone exaggerates on their CV, but to apply for a job that specifically required a competency at Excel and claim you were "proficient" at it when you can't even sum a column of figures is a step over the line for me.

 

Anyway, I shouldn't be talking about this on here.

[lapal_fan]

17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm helping to move things in a direction away from excel, but as things stand at the very least a decent competency in it is essential.

Despite your insistence, she couldn't learn what she needs to learn quickly. It would take months. I don't have that luxury at the moment.

I know everyone exaggerates on their CV, but to apply for a job that specifically required a competency at Excel and claim you were "proficient" at it when you can't even sum a column of figures is a step over the line for me.

 

Anyway, I shouldn't be talking about this on here.

In which case, it would take her a while.  Proficient can mean anything though really, depends where you're coming from.

But now you've said what her level is, then yes.  I can see why she wouldn't get the job. I'd say "sums" are 1 step up from turning your computer on.

[Stevo985]

21 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

But now you've said what her level is, then yes.  I can see why she wouldn't get the job. I'd say "sums" are 1 step up from turning your computer on.

Exactly. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm helping to move things in a direction away from excel, but as things stand at the very least a decent competency in it is essential.

Despite your insistence, she couldn't learn what she needs to learn quickly. It would take months. I don't have that luxury at the moment.

I know everyone exaggerates on their CV, but to apply for a job that specifically required a competency at Excel and claim you were "proficient" at it when you can't even sum a column of figures is a step over the line for me.

 

Anyway, I shouldn't be talking about this on here.

In the JD does it list examples of what's required (e.g. VBA, pivot tables, lookups etc)? Might help clear things up, 'competency' is a bit woolly.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss

[guyavfc]

Do we have any teachers on here? I'm looking at getting into Primary School teaching, I think it's something i'd enjoy and it's suited to my personality. Having said that I'm getting very mixed reactions off people I talk to about teaching.

[Dr_Pangloss]

44 minutes ago, guyavfc said:

Do we have any teachers on here? I'm looking at getting into Primary School teaching, I think it's something i'd enjoy and it's suited to my personality. Having said that I'm getting very mixed reactions off people I talk to about teaching.

My mrs is a teacher and she wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Hours are very long if you're a halfway good teacher with standards (i.e. mark books properly and plan good lessons), eating up a lot of her time 'after work', on weekends and even in the holiday. 'Standards' and their corresponding frameworks seem to change regularly, leaving everyone in a state of flux as to how to implement the latest govt. flavor of the month. Also, it has to be said, parents are total clearings in the woods and a constant source of stress, and depending on what you do now, the pay isn't exactly amazing. 

Obviously the flip side is that it can be very rewarding. But you have to weigh up all the shit that comes with it and frankly, how much hard work it actually is. A friend of mine made the switch from investment banking to teaching last year in a quest to do something more rewarding and said after his first week that he was utterly exhausted and has never worked so hard in his life LOL.

I think there are teachers/ ex teachers on here who might be able to give you better advice but this is basically what I get from all my girlfriend's frequent complaints. She has actually looked to get out of teaching at various points but stayed in as the world outside is a bit unknown and she'd have to start from the bottom. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss

[jackbauer24]

42 minutes ago, guyavfc said:

Do we have any teachers on here? I'm looking at getting into Primary School teaching, I think it's something i'd enjoy and it's suited to my personality. Having said that I'm getting very mixed reactions off people I talk to about teaching.

I wouldn't go as far as saying don't do it but really really think. Don't listen to all those people who think they know the job, listen only to those who do/did the job.

Bulletpoints to think about;

*It is not 8 til 3 five days a week. A study a few years back suggested a teacher works an average of 65hrs a week. I know of no teacher who doesn't put a day aside at the weekend for planning/marking/assessment.

*Can you take constant negative scrutiny? You will be observed constantly to begin with and even after ten years you're still actively observed or assessed once every two weeks through formal observations, book trawls, assessment data, pupil progress or performance management. You HAVE to be told you're doing something wrong all the time so they can mark their sheets to show they are improving their staff for Ofsted - you are never fine/doing a good job.

*Schools vary wildly. Both with management and children. Some schools, especially in Birmingham, will be more about behaviour management than teaching. Yes, this is primary. I've had runners, chairs thrown, attacks on adults and all kinds of language from under 9s and in a 'normal' school not a behavioural unit.

*The only bit of teaching most teachers like is teaching. You're lucky, genuinely, if that takes up 33% of your time. You teach for 4.5 days a week (PPA is 0.5) so approximately 24hrs a week - the rest is planning, assessment, meetings etc.

I could go on. I think the career is very very broken at the moment, me and my partner are both Primary teachers. I wouldn't enter the profession personally now, there are other jobs you could do for a much healthier mental and social well being. Your pay, especially at the start isn't great either. After ten years I was on 34k but now supply as it takes 90% of the crap away. My other half is hoping to be a deputy next year and will be on 45k - we did a work hours count only last month, she did a 72hr week in the 'average' week we documented - got in at 7am Mon to Fri, worked til 5.30 at school (bar one til 6.30, meeting) then came home and did another two hours on marking/ planning/ resources/ assessment. She always sets aside Saturday (Villa ST holder of course!) and then did another 6/7 hours on Sunday. This half term she's had a week off rather than the two the public believe because still more work to do and Easter booster classes etc in prep for SATs.

Go in to a school for a week or two, get plenty of real experience. When I say real I mean where you aren't just doing the fun teaching/playing bit as that is less than a third of your time. If it still interests you, go for it, but don't say you weren't warned!

Oh, and as a slight aside, assuming you're male, you'll either be expected to go straight for leadership roles, you're gay or youre a kiddyfiddler! Still a surprisingly high resistance to male teachers in primary, normally from institutionalised old midwide type teachers!

Good luck!

Edited April 18, 2017 by jackbauer24
Marking spellings of course!

[StefanAVFC]

40 minutes ago, guyavfc said:

Do we have any teachers on here? I'm looking at getting into Primary School teaching, I think it's something i'd enjoy and it's suited to my personality. Having said that I'm getting very mixed reactions off people I talk to about teaching.

Trained, placements were awesome and I did really well ending in a job at one of the schools I trained in.

Once September rolled around, everything changed. You're expected to give up your life with little or no reward.

Don't recommend it to anyone.

[HanoiVillan]

My wife is planning to do a PGCE as well this year. I'm aware of all the negative comments, and to a large extent they must be true - the flood of people leaving the industry can't be interpreted any other way - but I'm in a bind as I don't want to flat out say 'just don't do it, you'll hate it'. I don't quite know how to handle the situation. 

[jackbauer24]

10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

My wife is planning to do a PGCE as well this year. I'm aware of all the negative comments, and to a large extent they must be true - the flood of people leaving the industry can't be interpreted any other way - but I'm in a bind as I don't want to flat out say 'just don't do it, you'll hate it'. I don't quite know how to handle the situation. 

Right...good news or bad news?! Your relationship will have to be very very strong, maybe this is for the relationship thread! Unfortunately, and I'm not wishing to scare you, it is such a common story that relationships break down when one partner takes up teaching. Just as a straw poll at my current place, I'd say 80% of relationships broke down because of the time demands and stress the career puts on people. For the none teacher partner it's really difficult to fathom - it's hard to understand it's not just a job and you feel you're letting children down if you don't do it with every ounce of your energy. It's quite emotionally blackmailing really and the government and management use that guilt to push you further.

That's not to say you can't have a relationship as a teacher! It's just most relationships seem to have been formed between teachers or those in the education sector OR relationships that started after the individual had already become a teacher so it wasn't a shock to the system.

You are in a bind, you have to be supportive but you can see issues arising. I feel for you. I think all you can do is support her wishes, at least the knowledge of what she's getting in to will help you better prepare for it. You're going to have to be patient and be prepared for tears, lots and lots of tears! I'd tell her to speak to as many teachers as possible to get an accurate view of it - don't listen to outsiders views or misleading adverts! Hell, show her this thread where three/four teachers have already said they'd be, at best, wary about entering the profession. No-one is sticking up for it who's an actual teacher yet.

Good luck, it's going to be tough but she'll appreciate your support and she's going to need a lot. In a weird way, you just have to hope she sees it for herself. I was speaking to two people who though teaching was a goid idea just this last academic year, both dropped out the course after seeing what I'd told them would happen for themselves. You might just have to let her try. And in best case scenario, maybe she'll be that rare few who like it for long enough to make it worth while.

 

[guyavfc]

I appreciate the advice guys and most definitely the warnings. I have an interview for my Schools Direct Primary PGCE next week. At the moment I'm supporting SEN students in a high school but (think I) want to make the step up to be a teacher. I guess for now I'll just see how things pan out. I really do appreciate all your feedback, thanks.

[StefanAVFC]

My manager just got promoted, and I've been told her role is mine. Will transition into the role over the next 2/3 months from a supervisory position into managing 20 people. A fun step up, excited!

[El Zen]

I'm a teacher and I absolutely love my job. However, a) I don't teach primary and b ) I don't teach in the UK. I work hard and some weeks can be exhausting but never anything like 65 hour weeks and it's always, always incredibly rewarding. 

[chrisp65]

On 4/18/2017 at 12:30, guyavfc said:

Do we have any teachers on here? I'm looking at getting into Primary School teaching, I think it's something I'd enjoy and it's suited to my personality. Having said that I'm getting very mixed reactions off people I talk to about teaching.

I've got a mate who has worked his way up to being a primary school head and it turns out he has a flair for it. He's currently head of one and also acting head of another that had been failing. His wife is my wife's friend and she is a deputy head at a local school and it suits her to stay there in that post as it's a good job walking distance from home. Suffice to say, between them they earn over £100K a year. They enjoy it, it's not an easy job and it's not 9 til 5. But they were never ever going to be 9 til 5 people.

I have three other friends that are or were teachers, one has retired early having had his arm broken by a comp pupil. One finds it a doddle, one finds it hard but rewarding. 

All five have social lives. Two of them are coming out with me in a couple of weeks time, for three consecutive nights of gigs.

It's not easy and it's not a life of misery.

 

[Sid4ever]

Tried looking back over previous threads but can't find one, so apologies if not the right thread.

I have a dormant pension from previous employment with one of the larger pension providers, and have been advised/had it suggested to move it into a SSAS, where I will be the 5th trustee. 

Does anybody have any advice/thoughts that could help me make up my mind whether this is the right thing to do?