Why Paul Lambert should get the sack

[jacketspuds]

I reckon lambert a gunna swap Ireland for Adam off Stoke

I would be ok with this.

[dpt666]

And me tbh

[lmarsha_926]

only have the stats for the last 6 seasons but this makes things intresting

 

 

it shows Lambert had last season the best passing Villa team in 5 years, Houllier played the better football but Lambert is trying to do what O'Neill did but on a much tighter budget

Edited December 30, 2013 by lmarsha_926

[HeyAnty]

I reckon lambert a gunna swap Ireland for Adam off Stoke

I would be ok with this.

I'd be just happy to give Ireland to Stoke.

[Isa]

I reckon lambert a gunna swap Ireland for Adam off Stoke

I would be ok with this.

I'd be just happy to give Ireland to Stoke.

We effectively have.

[maqroll]

I reckon lambert a gunna swap Ireland for Adam off Stoke

Charlie Adam is a mook 

[Dodgyknees]

Bacunas quick Kev, he dropped him, Bennetts quick enough hes dropped.

Hes cut off his nose too often .You could argue Ireland, Sidwell, Dunne, Collins, Bent, would walk into our team atm, and Cuellar Warnock and Hutton would'nt make us much worse either.

PL has been here 18 months, hes bought how many players, if theres a problem, its a problem he has created.

Bacuna you may of notice wasnt dropped he played yesterday. Bennett's been injured all season and is still injured

Bent can't walk into Fulhams shite side nor can Cuellar get into Sunderland's shite side

Ireland had numerous chances and wasted them all, Sidwell went under Houillier??

Warnock and Hutton were utter utter crap. Warnock can't get into a Championship side and no-one in their right mind will take Hutton, even on loan

Dunne and Collins cost £100k+ a week in wages. Dunne was even more injury prone than Vlaar. Collins attitude was rightly questioned and I for one am delighted he has left my club

None of the players you mention have gone on to be successful elsewhere

Garbage

Yep, these rubbish players who were part if the rot are suddenly world beaters.

Brilliant!

You would have great difficulty to find anyone on site who have referred to those players as world beaters.

The point being made is that some of those players could have been used for a short period of time to take the pressure off the younger players while they developed which would have meant the Lambert revolution being more gradual and less of a shock to the club.

These higher paid players almost got us relegated too.

Yes mate but that was with Mcleish and Lambert has spent another 40 odd million without much or any improvement.

But he was forced to sell the high earners and build a full squad for 40m, whilst he has made mistakes, it is hard to really judge him when that sort of money would have build a squad 10 years ago, player prices have doubled since. 40m gives no room to breathe and you have to find top quality for 2/3m, if it were that easy Man City and Chelsea would fill their squad. Edited December 30, 2013 by dodgyknees

[Dodgyknees]

only have the stats for the last 6 seasons but this makes things intresting

it shows Lambert had last season the best passing Villa team in 5 years, Houllier played the better football but Lambert is trying to do what O'Neill did but on a much tighter budget

Interesting, thank you.

[Electric Avenue]

Electric I can't believe you tweeted Howard to ask if he was me!!! Obviously I'm not - I don't own a fancy boat and if I did I wouldn't be such a balloon to post a photo of it on my page! ha

I didn't mate. That was a tweet howard put out there. I just cut and paste it on here.

[Raver50032]

Charlie Adam won't come here. We're nothing but a 'half arsed club.'

[Morpheus]

Bacunas quick Kev, he dropped him, Bennetts quick enough hes dropped.

Hes cut off his nose too often .You could argue Ireland, Sidwell, Dunne, Collins, Bent, would walk into our team atm, and Cuellar Warnock and Hutton would'nt make us much worse either.

PL has been here 18 months, hes bought how many players, if theres a problem, its a problem he has created.

Bacuna you may of notice wasnt dropped he played yesterday. Bennett's been injured all season and is still injured

Bent can't walk into Fulhams shite side nor can Cuellar get into Sunderland's shite side

Ireland had numerous chances and wasted them all, Sidwell went under Houillier??

Warnock and Hutton were utter utter crap. Warnock can't get into a Championship side and no-one in their right mind will take Hutton, even on loan

Dunne and Collins cost £100k+ a week in wages. Dunne was even more injury prone than Vlaar. Collins attitude was rightly questioned and I for one am delighted he has left my club

None of the players you mention have gone on to be successful elsewhere

Garbage

Yep, these rubbish players who were part if the rot are suddenly world beaters.

Brilliant!

You would have great difficulty to find anyone on site who have referred to those players as world beaters.

The point being made is that some of those players could have been used for a short period of time to take the pressure off the younger players while they developed which would have meant the Lambert revolution being more gradual and less of a shock to the club.

These higher paid players almost got us relegated too.

Yes mate but that was with Mcleish and Lambert has spent another 40 odd million without much or any improvement.

But he was forced to sell the high earners and build a full squad for 40m, whilst he has made mistakes, it is hard to really judge him when that sort of money would have build a squad 10 years ago, player prices have doubled since. 40m gives no room to breathe and you have to find top quality for 2/3m, if it were that easy Man City and Chelsea would fill their squad.

While he had the remit of change DK was he forced into doing it so quickly or could it have been more gradual. Giving Bent the captaincy would suggest the latter but the real question should be has he improved our squad and one would have to say looking at the standard of football played and present points trend the answer would have to be no.

That may change though if he brings the right signings in when the window opens and I am prepared to give him that time to turn us around. That's why it's probably the most important transfer window coming up in Lambert's tenure and if backed by Lerner he must get it right this time with no more shocking purchases.

[The_Steve]

I reckon lambert a gunna swap Ireland for Adam off Stoke

Adam is a meatheaded thug. No thanks.

[smetrov]

This sudden dash for experience, I fear is the end for Lambert - although bizzarley - it is the right thing to do  - as a manager it just undermines his first 18 months at the club. Actually young and hungry wasn't the way forward after all - lets see if this works ...

 

It kinds of reminds me of Brian Little who resisted repeated calls to play Lee Hendrie - then for whatever reason (Rumours of behind the scenes arm twisting) Little played him - Hendrie Scored - But little as a manager then had zero credibility - and left days later....

Edited December 30, 2013 by smetrov

[The Fun Factory]

This sudden dash for experience, I fear is the end for Lambert - although bizzarley - it is the right thing to do  - as a manager it just undermines his first 18 months at the club. Actually young and hungry wasn't the way forward after all - lets see if this works ...

 

It kinds of reminds me of Brian Little who resisted repeated calls to play Lee Hendrie - then for whatever reason (Rumours of behind the scenes arm twisting) Little played him - Hendrie Scored - But little as a manager then had zero credibility - and left days later....

I would love Lambert to be reminded of Brian Little. Like coming 4th and winning stuff.

[Nigel]

What sudden dash for experience?

[VillaCas]

 

 

You could be right although I'd suggest if it was the case that those would be easily moved they'd probably return to the same level where they came from.

Bent being on a lot more than Benteke yet Benteke being the better player is exactly my point concerning wages v performance,

 

I don't know if really you don't understand or if you're being deliberately dense but obviously one example does not disprove a rule

 

Quote  "The logical conclusion is that the more you spend on wages, the more points you got in the Premier League"

 

http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/07/09/value-index-part-1/2013070912877

Ok I'll give you another example and one which your sarcasm will like. QPR last season.

 

 

Well, you've had two attempts at this and have spectacularly and magnificently totally misunderstood the concept. To be honest, your lack of understanding here puts the rest of your posts into context

 

In a nutshell, well established rules of economics dictate that in general, the more talented you are, the more you can expect to get paid - this is not in dispute

 

In football terms, there is a massive correlation (statistical relationship) between what you pay your players in wages and how many points you should expect to get back in return

 

 

 

Teams to the left of this line have under-performed ie they have not earnt the number of points that the amount of money they have paid out deserves

 

Teams to the right of the line have over-performed earning more points than you would expect

 

The best (worst?) example of a team under-performing during 2011/12 was McL's Villa - given the high wage bill they should have been expected to earn around 12 additional points. The fact that they didn't is clearly a function of bad management and players not performing to the level that their pay would indicate.  

 

Using a different metric, McL team was the 7th best paid but finished 16th - the worst differential (-9) between pay and position in the division (the best differentials were Brendan Rodgers' Swansea (+9) and Lambert's Norwich (+7))

 

It is not really possible to exactly say what % of under or over-performance is due to management and what % is due to players, but in the example that you provide, Bent v Benteke it seems pretty clear that your poster-boy Bent at £65k a week was not returning value and that Benteke at c£25k a week was massively over-performing (this is further confirmed by Bent's contribution at Fulham)

 

Your other example (QPR) shows exactly the same situation as at Villa in 2011/12 - a combination of bad management and players not delivering performance commensurate with their wages. Even your hero Redknapp who overachieved with Spurs couldn't turn it around

 

I would think that Lambert's team are now on something like 50% of the wages that McL's team was on - when you cut wages so dramatically, statistics would suggest that you should see a proportionate reduction in the number of points you should expect. We don't yet have the figures available but I would expect that we have moved from a position of massively under-performing under McL, to a position under Lambert where, so far, we have earned more points than the wage bill would suggest

 

http://www.squawka.com/news/2013/07/09/value-index-part-1/2013070912877

 

In my day job, I work with companies to improve their customer service - the biggest source of dissatisfaction with companies is where performance does not meet customer expectation. For example, Ryanair is clear with customers that it is a no-frills airline and so customers have fairly low expectations of the level of service they can expect and people are mostly satisfied, but if BA offered the same level of service their customers would be dissatisfied because their expectations are much higher

 

Our problem is that we have, somewhat understandably given the relatively decent performance of a few years ago, the mentality and expectations of a big club, but people who think like this are undoubtedly going to feel disappointed because their expectations are way out of step with what can feasibly be delivered with the resources employed. 

 

Personally, I've lowered my expectations and I'm not currently judging Lambert against the same standard that I judged MON, Houllier or McL - if and when Lambert gets more money (to spend on wages not on fees - there is a much much lower correlation between fees and performance) my expectations of him will rise accordingly

 

I've got no particular favouritism towards Lambert but whilst in my opinion he is keeping us on the plus side of the chart I continue to support him

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Very well reasoned VillaCas and completely understandable. To be honest, I've no issue with the points return so far. We're a bit closer to the bottom three than I'd have liked but 3 points on Wednesday could turn that on its head.

What none of that is able to defend is the standard of football on show. How disorganised and demotivated we look. How much worse we seem to be getting game by game. Whilst I admire your persistence I know you're not stupid, you know, as a consumer, that on the pitch the level of entertainer provided simply isn't good enough and that if current form continues we're only heading one way.

[VillaCas]

 

While he had the remit of change DK was he forced into doing it so quickly or could it have been more gradual. Giving Bent the captaincy would suggest the latter but the real question should be has he improved our squad and one would have to say looking at the standard of football played and present points trend the answer would have to be no.

That may change though if he brings the right signings in when the window opens and I am prepared to give him that time to turn us around. That's why it's probably the most important transfer window coming up in Lambert's tenure and if backed by Lerner he must get it right this time with no more shocking purchases.

 

 

Good grief.....again with this nonsense.   That's not at all the real question AT ALL

 

Only in your fantasy world would you expect someone going from a £70m a year to a £35m a year wage bill to "improve" the squad!

 

We are in a cost-cutting operation - the real question is are we getting better value for the amount of resource employed and CLEARLY we are - Lambert earnt more points and better position than McL whilst utilising resource that cost and earnt massively less - so by any standard that is better

 

Is that the best that any manager could do? Possibly not - Rodgers or Moyes for example might do better. Is that better than any other manager that Villa could attract could do? probably yes

 

You have totally mis-understood the nature of the task facing us

[AstonMartin82]

This sudden dash for experience, I fear is the end for Lambert - although bizzarley - it is the right thing to do  - as a manager it just undermines his first 18 months at the club. Actually young and hungry wasn't the way forward after all - lets see if this works ...

 

It kinds of reminds me of Brian Little who resisted repeated calls to play Lee Hendrie - then for whatever reason (Rumours of behind the scenes arm twisting) Little played him - Hendrie Scored - But little as a manager then had zero credibility - and left days later....

 

This thread should be called "The Overreaction Thread" and your post sums it up perfectly.

 

Nothing quite like over reacting to a third parties in the know on an internet forum. 

[VillaCas]

Very well reasoned VillaCas and completely understandable. To be honest, I've no issue with the points return so far. We're a bit closer to the bottom three than I'd have liked but 3 points on Wednesday could turn that on its head.

What none of that is able to defend is the standard of football on show. How disorganised and demotivated we look. How much worse we seem to be getting game by game. Whilst I admire your persistence I know you're not stupid, you know, as a consumer, that on the pitch the level of entertainer provided simply isn't good enough and that if current form continues we're only heading one way.

 

I tend to agree with you. I've set out my reasons why I support Lambert and at the moment he is still on the plus side of the chart for me (as he has been since he came here) - however, that doesn't mean that I would continue to support him if performances continue to slide. Once he crosses over to the negative side of the line he is fair game

 

The problem for us is that resources are cut so close to the bone that, at the moment, that we really shouldnt expect much more than lower bottom half - We have a very weak squad and so a few injuries to key players leaves us very exposed. It's no wonder than confidence looks so low.   Lerner really needs to back Lambert in the window or be prepared to face the consequences.

 

To cover off the circular arguments that will undoubtedly be raised again.

 

I believe Lambert was right to freeze out the overpaid, underperformers (I also believe that this was part of the agreement with Lerner when he took the job)

I believe that Lambert would have liked to bring in a little more experience and quality but funds were not available

I believe that the £40m figure that is constantly trotted out is a red herring - in the same period we have lost players that cost double that to recruit

I firmly believe that wages = performance and whilst we are paying peanuts we will be a bottom half team

I believe that Lambert hates the style of football we are playing but is resigned to the fact that it is the best way to get points on the board

I believe that Lambert has taken a massive hit to his reputation on the gamble that Lerner will back him to achieve in Y3, Y4 & Y5