Xela Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Don't disagree with any word you have said @TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted March 23 Popular Post Share Posted March 23 (edited) I think the problem the younger generations have is twofold It really, really **** stinks that the state pension has a triple lock while working people have been shafted for a generation. Wages stagnate, the cost of living goes up the pension goes up. An ever increasing number of working people reliant on benefits and living in poverty while their taxes go towards a triple locked pension for the wealthiest generation in history is vile. And yes, there are lots of pensioners in poverty and lots of youngsters living the life, but we're talking broad trends. This is obviously a systemic issue. Individual boomers aren't the problem, the broad group of pensioners voting for their own interests and pulling the ladder up behind them is, though. The political class and wealthy elite encouraging this is a bigger one. Secondly, particularly over the last 20 years, the younger generations have been shafted again and again. People in their 30s and younger know nothing but the government making their deal worse. Ask people in their 20s and 30s what they think their state pension will be and most of them will laugh in your face. It's not something that the two flavours of centre right corporate bitches are putting to the electorate, so what's the alternative? Riot like the french, I guess. Edited March 23 by Davkaus 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, TRO said: All the more reason, why it should be high on the agenda for folk who are not retired....to see it as worth fighting for....like other countries have. Many, countries in Europe have far better, pension benefits than us.....we are pretty low down in the pecking order. That should not be the case for a country as high profile as ours. The State Pension, should be achieved by all, not just the lucky ones, who have lived....So the threshold is too high, and that is something we should fight for, not dismiss......maybe that's the march that should take place. Some say, we can't afford it.....that because its been spent on things, that are questionable/debatable. If we cannot operate a scheme, where we look after our pensioners, as in theory everyone, should benefit..... we are losing our soul and our culture and depressing the working population....those folk, should have something tangible to look forward to, not throw in the towel...because of Ministers and Bureaucrats, who can't see the importance of motivating the working population.....The carrot cannot be placed too far ,from the Donkey.....All working folk, should be able to see, and achievable Oasis.....otherwise its cruel. The countries that prioritise their elderly folk, have purpose and meaning and it reflects on their overall society. Everyone should see that retirement day, as something for them, unless the good lord, denies them.....I am unsure, enough people, think it's worth fighting for which is defeatist. I am amazed in a society, like ours, how the folk who have reached the retirement age, should be the only ones interested in a better deal......So many will get there, and wished they had fought a bit more. This country can afford it.....its about getting priorities right. It's absolutely not your problem, but the generations beneath yours are just getting shafted on all things cost - so fighting for a pension is pretty low down because fighting for somewhere to live and/or fighting for a working NHS and/or fighting for safe schools and so and so forth are far more urgent and pressing. I have no idea what the state of retiring will be when I get there but I'm almost 100% certain it will be nowhere near as cosy as it was for my parents; mortgage paid off 20 odd years ago, lovely state pension, dropped working at 60. It won't be anywhere near that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 23 Moderator Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Davkaus said: It really, really **** stinks that the state pension has a triple lock while working people have been shafted for a generation The people who will benefit the most from the triple lock are those furthest from taking their pension. This assumes that the state pension isn’t cancelled, but it’s compounding of increases, like with interest on a multi year savings account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Just now, blandy said: The people who will benefit the most from the triple lock are those furthest from taking their pension. You're absolutely right in principle, but this, and my second point, are the important bit Quote This assumes that the state pension isn’t cancelled In 30 years, do you really think the state pension exists, or isn't at least means tested? This pyramid scheme can't go on forever. The infinitely growing pension pot exists in the same economic fantasy land as the infinitely growing GDP, and it's going to come crashing down. Some pensioners love to cry "but we've paid in for this for our whole lives", but what they've paid in is nowhere near what they're taking out. The system is a scam, and the younger generations are its victims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 There was an interesting article in the Times this weekend about birth defects, comparing the choice of generational incest and inbreeding with the choice of a mother having a "geriatric pregnancy" in her 30s. That may have been an older mother a couple of decades ago, but what responsible woman with a hope of having a career along with giving her child a decent life can afford to have a child in her twenties these days? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 23 Moderator Share Posted March 23 27 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Some pensioners love to cry "but we've paid in for this for our whole lives", but what they've paid in is nowhere near what they're taking out And some pensioners have paid in way more than they’re ever taking out. The state pension is, compared to other countries in the EU etc. pretty woeful. I agree the political will to make changes isn’t there and it’s possible that one day the changes necessary may eventually be made, or partially made, but I’d wager that at the point they do it, if they do, the accumulated “stock” for younger individuals will not be taken from them, but a new level of annual increase will be set without the triple lock. They won’t lose what they have already gained to that point. Taking the example of more recent changes, they been around increasing the age you get it. For women it went to 65 from 60, then for people my age it went from 65 to 67 and I think it’s gone up another year since then. But the level of weekly payments accumulates each year and the young benefit the most from that (though they obviously don’t see that until many years time). Further, younger people are paying less, typically, because they generally earn less at the start of their lives (and nothing if they’re kids). And then again they also benefit the most over time, assuming the Tory NI rate cut endures for any length of time. Its a rare example of something that counter-intuitively actually benefits the young the most, while also being of genuine help to all the pensioners with little or no other pension provision, many in poverty. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted March 23 VT Supporter Share Posted March 23 5 hours ago, Xela said: 68 when I get it.. i've basically wiped it out from my calculations/projections. Anything received will merely be a bonus. Same. I realised about a decade ago it would be worthless (mostly through my wife nagging) so pumped money into private pensions. Whenever I got a parish or promotion I'd pop part of it in to the pot. Think I'm currently on about 17% of salary which helps. One of my colleagues is on a final salary pension scheme though, she told me she'd just ticked into £1m in total which is ridiculous and something I'll never get near. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 24 VT Supporter Share Posted March 24 I see the Tories have pledged to keep the triple lock if they win the election (ha ha). Partly a last ditch attempt to hold on to their pensioner demographic, but mainly a trap for Labour, who now have to decide how to respond. Damned if they do, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted March 24 VT Supporter Share Posted March 24 I'd like to know whether it's because I'm old that each year feels like the wheels are finally going to fall off of human civilisation, or whether it really is about to collapse. Is this just something that every generation feels as they get older, or are we actually wahoonied this time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 56 minutes ago, HKP90 said: I'd like to know whether it's because I'm old that each year feels like the wheels are finally going to fall off of human civilisation, or whether it really is about to collapse. Is this just something that every generation feels as they get older, or are we actually wahoonied this time? Yes every generation thinks that. There are always peaks and troughs in the cyclical nature of society, economy, wars, etc… but the general trend across decades and centuries is always a trend of things improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 On 23/03/2024 at 14:37, Xela said: Don't disagree with any word you have said @TRO ........About everything? ok...I'm pushing my luck 6 hours ago, mjmooney said: I see the Tories have pledged to keep the triple lock if they win the election (ha ha). Partly a last ditch attempt to hold on to their pensioner demographic, but mainly a trap for Labour, who now have to decide how to respond. Damned if they do, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 On 23/03/2024 at 16:11, bobzy said: It's absolutely not your problem, but the generations beneath yours are just getting shafted on all things cost - so fighting for a pension is pretty low down because fighting for somewhere to live and/or fighting for a working NHS and/or fighting for safe schools and so and so forth are far more urgent and pressing. I have no idea what the state of retiring will be when I get there but I'm almost 100% certain it will be nowhere near as cosy as it was for my parents; mortgage paid off 20 odd years ago, lovely state pension, dropped working at 60. It won't be anywhere near that. I am not suggesting, there aren't other pressing issues, of course there are.....but the worth of State pensions in the uk are exaggerated by some....and the triple lock, is only the bare minimum, of what should be in place, not an extravagant gift. We have paid in all our working life, so it's been no free ride, for us....and check out how many other European countries, eclipse our Pensions substantially. I am not suggesting, that pensioners deserve, special treatment, I am merely saying it can be a measure of the culture, that exists in a country, if they are treated well.....If a country doesn't treat its children or elderly well, the culture of that country is questionable. Let's be clear here....in an ideal world, everyone, should get there, and benefit.....That's been my thoughts, when I wrote about this.....a programme designed for all, should they qualify. I am not trying to bang the drum, just because I am lucky to qualify.....I am banging the drum, to create a life for all, when they get old.....pensioners cannot, move jobs or create leverage, like working people can....but comparing working people with pensioners, was not my intention or in fact the objective.... 2 different scenarios for me. Ps Your last line was the very crux of my point....that's what we should be fighting for, so YOU can benefit, to a least the same degree as your parents.....I was not suggesting a big brucie bonus now, but ensuring younger folk don't get a watered down version....now's the time to fight for the folk coming up to retirement age, who are working.....Pensions are not just for today, they are for tomorrow to.....and at election time, they should be reminded of the importance to the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 There was talk the Tories and Labour had quietly agreed to not mention the pension issue, because it's a financially ruinous policy that is wholly unfair on younger generations. And it's not even beneficial electorally; obviously Labour now have to pledge to keep the triple lock too. So we've just screwed the country for another term for no reason. As @Davkaus said above, I'd be absolutely astonished if it didn't end up being means tested by the time I get around to retiring. I just don't see the maths working any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: As @Davkaus said above, I'd be absolutely astonished if it didn't end up being means tested by the time I get around to retiring. I just don't see the maths working any other way So the people who have paid the most, get the least, and vice versa? That’ll go down really well (especially with any Tories who are left). Imagine if they could improve the prospects and wealth of the country just by admitting they made a mistake in 2016. How easy would that be? Imagine all that extra money to improve people’s lives! Edited March 24 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Just now, Genie said: So the people who have paid the most, get the least, and vice versa? That’ll go down really well (especially with any Tories who are left). That's how it works with most taxes and benefits, right? You have higher tax rates the more you earn, personal tax allowance is lost over £100k of tax, same with child support payments, unemployment benefits etc. If you're earning that much money then you don't need help from the state, and you're expected to pay more in to support the rest of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 47 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: That's how it works with most taxes and benefits, right? You have higher tax rates the more you earn, personal tax allowance is lost over £100k of tax, same with child support payments, unemployment benefits etc. If you're earning that much money then you don't need help from the state, and you're expected to pay more in to support the rest of society. Pension is slightly different in that theoretically you’re putting money aside for yourself later. Many will have been earning good money but not putting anything aside privately as counting on the public pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 24 VT Supporter Share Posted March 24 10 minutes ago, Genie said: Many will have been earning good money but not putting anything aside privately as counting on the public pension. Anybody hoping to retire purely on the state pension is out of their mind. That said, my parents did. And boy, were they ever skint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 10 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Anybody hoping to retire purely on the state pension is out of their mind. That said, my parents did. And boy, were they ever skint. Its madness… but I bet millions are doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 23 minutes ago, Genie said: Pension is slightly different in that theoretically you’re putting money aside for yourself later. Many will have been earning good money but not putting anything aside privately as counting on the public pension. They wouldn't be affected by means testing though, most likely - you'd either need income (which comes from a private pension / investments) or lots of assets. If you've got lots of assets then again it's not unreasonable to expect people to sell down to a more normal level before starting to get state support, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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