jackbauer24

Maybe it is a case of being Villa-weary, but I just don't care if he stays or goes. It is so completely and utterly irrelevant. He has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he's a top manager, yet he also can't really be held responsible for much when he's been given no backing. I think with enough money offered Villa could have got his backroom staff in and obviously they didn't back him in January. However, he hasn't got even one decent performance out of this team in 20 odd games. There's nothing that compels me to have strong feelings one way or the other. The only thing that will change this clubs direction is changes in ownership, then changes in players. You can't judge any manager until that happens so it's all completely irrelevant. The only slight preference I have is that Garde walks to further push the spotlight on our failing ownership.

Having been a season ticket holder for a number of years, and having sat through the cr*p we've been served this season I think it is unreasonable to suggest fans should walk out the door on '74... Surely 18 would be much kinder! Are you really expecting me to watch 74 minutes of this dross on a Tuesday night?! But I suppose we must suffer for our team so I'll be joining in....

Last time the finances were reported we made a loss of £3.9m, down from £52m the previous year. Therefore there is absolutely zero reason for our losses to be any more than £3.9m, and a lot of reasons to suggest our finances should be a lot healthier. More money should have come in - if Fox is doing his job commercially, plus extra TV money, plus FA Cup run and all that brings. Less money should have gone out with wages and expenses once again reduced as is the main aim of the board. But frankly they can't (and shouldn't) win. Post a profit and there is no excuse not to have invested more in summer/ January considering our position. Post another loss and the board are not doing their job properly. It's just a question of in what way are they inept?!

That may well be the case and the figures may end up backing up his arguments BUT either way questions need to be asked. If nothing else, does a greater loss point to creative accounting? I can't think of many reasons why our losses in the next report year should be higher than the previous one but I can see a few reasons why they should be better still. More money in; Fox said sponsorship up, FA Cup run. Less money out; huge wages gone, other costs cut. Why would losses be greater?

What will people's view be if, as I suspect, we're in profit this year? Approximately a year ago Villa announced yearly losses had fallen from £52m to £4m. That's a big jump. In the last year we have further cut costs (partic wages) and I can see us posting a profit. I think new accounts will be released within the next couple of weeks. A small profit and maybe that's good business, but what if the jump was the same again and we were £40m in profit? Obviously unlikely but what amount would have you seething that we didn't invest more in summer/ January or even going forward?

Apparently Robin Russell has resigned from the board. He's the Chief Financial Officer. Read what you want in to that...

I can understand being sad about being relegated, but don't quite share the same feelings about who we might 'lose' over the summer. I struggle to think of a single player who I value to such a degree I'll even give them a second thought when they leave. I can't think of a player that will leave us for a better team in this country that's for sure. I won't particularly miss any player from this talentless squad! I think Guzan, Richards and Lescott will all leave for America/ China paid retirements. We all know Richardson and NZogbia will be released. Think we might retain one of Veretout, Gana or Ayew but the rest will go to middling European teams, no British clubs will want them. Same applies to Okore, Gil and Sanchez. Gabby will stay due to wages and the fact I genuinely believe he wants to be a one club man. Hutton may be kept on but possibly loaned out for final year of contract. Back will come the loaned out players and current fringe players plus one, maybe two, cheap Championship players as The Board will believe we should have enough to get back up and will not want to invest in short term fixes who will need replacing immediately when we come back up at the first attempt... (sense my sarcasm) Bunn 1st Choice, Steer as Backup Defence made up of Clark, Baker, Bennett, Amavi (due to injury), Cissokho and Kinsella - possibly one defensive signing, probably CB. Midfield will consist of Westwood, Grealish (no one is going to take a chance on unproven/ attitude), Bacuna, Gardner, Lyden, probably Gana and maybe Traore (see Amavi) Strikers available will be Gabby, Gestede, Robinson - possibly one attacking signing. Think that'll be pretty close to the squad they 'assemble'. Will it be enough? Oh, and Remi will be gone. We will have a summer transfer window that sees a few nominal sales (Okore, Gil, Sanchez) a majority released/ free and then maybe two very cheap signings that will equate to far less than we make in sales with the argument we spent £50m last summer repeated to us every other week... Squad decimated and numbers reduced, wages obliterated, costs reduced to bare minimum and a very happy Board. And next week I'll tell you what the lottery numbers for September are...

That thread is genius. I was clearly too young when the sport was invented to know what it felt like in the beginning and hope that all the money Sky and other sponsors bring doesn't result in games being moved to 2am in Alaska when the 2018 World Cup begins. It would be ashame to lose the real fans to a load of Honey Badger/ Elephant half and half scarf brigade eating their Prawn sandwiches... well, assuming te Prawns don't qualify from the Oceania group. But in answer to the original thread; Cats. The answer is cats. Even when evil, cats.

Cissokho is leagues (literally, based on quality!) ahead of anyone else we could put in that position. Therefore there's little to discuss. Is he great? No. So he's no different than most of the team; an average (at best) automatic starter because there is no competition for places in our quality light squad!

What a successful window. We've removed the wages of Cole, Senderos, Ilori and possibly N'Zogbia. We've loaned out a few others too so their wages will be at least sibsidised. Do you think we could get rid of anyone else, surely there are a few more cuts we could do. We've added another level of management/ figure head too. Genius. All these other clubs thinking you have to invest in your squads... how silly of them. You sit pretty at the bottom of the league, focus on as much cost cutting as possible and watch everyone else implode as we climb the league! It's so obvious and will be the way all clubs are run soon. It's called the Ostrich Approach.

Nope, I've tried but all the players would prefer a bullet to the brain...

You are fielding a few arguments so I'll keep my response short My simple response to the idea that it is in Lerner's interest to at least give it a try is to point you to the last few years - it was in his interest to keep us in the Premier League, but in all likelihood he hasn't done that either. He simply hasn't invested in transfers and, more importantly, wages when it has become clear we were struggling year on year. I kind of agree that spending now is slightly pointless, as much as I as a fan would like it, but it's just wasting cash now. But he had an opportunity to invest in summer in 'his interest' and he didn't do it. I hope you're right and I'm wrong but history points unfavourably to a return to even moderate investment.

It is easier to fail than it is to achieve. It takes lots of money, talent and luck to get to the top but to fail just requires neglect. We are being neglected so the decline becomes quicker and quicker until it becomes an almost unrecoverable spriral. Left as we are then it is easily imaginable that we are more likely to find ourselves in League One or Two than it is to say we'd be back fighting in the top half of the Premier League. There might be a level which is as far as a big club like we are (were) could fall but in all likelihood that is a fair bit further yet. We may all hope we can bounce back up, but knowing what we do of Lerner's interest in our success, then the odds of dropping further must surely be higher than instant promotion. That doesn't mean we'll get relegated season on season, the decline would likely be slower than that, but without investment then the only way is down.

This part of your argument irritates me (nothing personal) but it just feels like some of the spin than comes out of Villa, some fans fall for and don't actually look at the reality of the situation. Without looking at the actual figures, even if we do say that's the case then it's still twisting a statistic to suit the PR spin. If I buy a house for £250,000 but then spend nothing for the next 25 years on it I can hardly argue that it's still in good condition and argue it's had the money spent on it so it's worth more than the house down the road that only cost £100k. Randy spent a lot at the start (badly) but you can't cut all spending on ANY business and expect to even stand still so it might average out ok, but is too uneven a spend to be used to argue the money has been spent. The same argument can be made focusing on this season. You have to spend a lot to replace stars, if they've left an already poor team you need to spend that and more so arguing £50m is enough is only relevant based on what you're replacing. £50m is a lot to improve a team, but to repair a gutted team it's nothing. There was so much to replace and try and improve that we needed to spend at least another £10-15m to progress. Who can argue a striker wouldn't have made a world of difference to our season? Put it this way, if we were to spend £20m this summer I'd be very happy because there is less to 'do'. £50m was not enough to do what was needed last summer.

I've recently moved to TalkTalk and it's great value so far with no problems. I think there's an element of them trying to make up for the bad press last year. Deinitely giving them a year because the offer I got was so cheap; Line Rental, free anytime calls and 76mb unlimited fibre internet for £18pm! then because I'm a customer I'm allowed to have a sim only with them too; changes frequently but got 1000m, unlimited texts and 3GB data for £5.50pm All the above are the prices for the entire year on 12 month contracts. Router seems better than BTs too.

I'll 'defend' him. Are any of our players 'good'? Not really. Are any of our players going to be 'legends'? Unlikely. Is he the best player in the squad? No. Is he the worst player in the squad? No. Is he even our worst midfielder? No. Does he mouth off or show a bad attitude? No. There are a lot of issues I have with our club and players before I started attacking, at the very least, a hard working professional player who plays with pride for our club. He's better than Sanchez, he's more reliable than Grealish. He's not N'Zogbia. Which midfielder is he keeping 'out'? Could he be improved on? Of course, but that goes for practically every position. More desperately we need a striker or two, a centre back, a left back, a goalkeeper and then maybe he might be up for 'review'. The hatred by some towards him really astonishes me. Every single one of the people who sit around me at VP week in, week out recognises his contribution to a very poor team/ squad. We might all wish for better but I can say I've never heard his name on the list of 'must go' grumbles or even having such a bad game that there are calls for him to be substituted. Unlike Guzan, Lescott, Clark, Hutton, Sanchez, N'Zogbia, Sinclair, Gabby and Gestede at fairly frequent times. Underrated doesn't mean we think he's great, just that he's the least of our problems.

The 'big spending' comment is just spin but also highlights where this board is going wrong. They genuinely believe that they have 'proof' that spending money doesn't work because over his time here Lerner has spent x amount. But because they are not football people and think players are 'stock' with no sell by date they fail to recognise that if you spend £200m in year one but nothing in year ten then this isn't going to fatally harm you. Very few people complained at the level of spending initially. A lot now recognise it wasn't good spending. Most also realise it was unsustainable so needed to be cut back a little. But what the fans, the intelligent media and the wider footballing world see, but the board can't, is that you can't simply cut all investment if you've spent badly initially. You adjust, you tighten your belt but you do not starve the club. Over his entire 'legacy' he may have spent a lot but it is so disproportionately spread that it is inaccurate to suggest money doesn't work. They have tried overspending and it was a fun failure, they have tried starvation and it has been death by a thousand cuts. They can not see there is a midde ground and that's why we should all be worried.

You would hope a team with Guzan, Richards, Clark, Richardson, Sanchez, Grealish and Gabby with a few youngsters and then first teamers on the bench would be enough against Wycombe, especially at home. Now the 'monkey' is off our back in terms of waiting for a win, this game is less banana skin that it was before. I'd definitely rest a majority of the team that played Saturday.

I find it amazing how different fans see such different things from the same player. I was watching him so closely today, on and off the ball, as this thread was in my mind as I believe he gets far too much abuse. No-one is going to call him a world beater but he is so reliable and was a calm influence in a midfield that was charging around physically (but at least accurately today Gana) and misplacing every pass (Veretout). He tidied up numerous tricky situations, he seemed to create quite a few chances (even a clever back heel to put Cissokho in space) and he worked his socks off. Everyone around me thought he played very well today. I wonder if people get a different impression when they watch it on TV. I know I'm wasting my time on here, people who hate him are never going to change their mind. He's not a player who goes on surging runs or scores wonder goals but he is so very neat and tidy with the ball. He's not as good as either Gana or Veretout on a skills basis perhaps but he's a hell of a lot more consistent. He's also loads better than any of our sub options. This passing the ball backwards/sideways thing that has already been broached above is ridicuolous - it's often required to retain possession and a few times he got us out of tricky positions and nipped in to get the ball back to a defender or into a safer area. Surely in his role we should expect him to have nearly a 50/50 ratio on direction, to start our attacks and break up others. He's not our best player, no doubt about it, but I'd strongly suggest he's our most underrated. We have a lot of bad players who get due stick, and he'll have better games some days than others but I never hear a single groan at VP when he's on teamsheet.

It's really simple to me; show me the evidence that transfers, but to an even greater extent wages, doesn't equate strongly to league position and I'll try to get behind this whole 'structure' party line that Lerner, Fox and now Hollis are peddling. We may be slightly underperforming, we definitely couldn't sustain the MON years but I fail to see how we can be performing THAT badly in structure to be where we are. I doubt any of our new players are on very high wages at all. Any high waged players will have come in free (Richards/ Lescott nominal). We've cut and cut and cut. I'm all for spending within our means but it's clear to everyone in football that we've cut too much, too deep and too quickly. Both in financial terms and in established quality. We've cut wages on experienced Premier League players and bought in potential gambles. I fully agree that something is 'fundamentally broken' but it's at board level - the belief that minimal spending in the richest league in the world is possible. Leicester spent £43m net in last two years. We spent £15m. I very much doubt that our wages NOW are higher than theirs. Southampton spent £32m for a couple of seasons running and then made huge profits selling their best players (like we did with Benteke) but, like us, they are beginning to pay for constantly selling and cutting costs. They're actually in year two of not investing sales (like we were after selling Milner/Young/Barry etc) and have slipped to 12th after Champions League talk (which they didn't achieve - sound familiar?) and I guarantee that if they carry on doing a Villa and not investing for three more years they'll be in relegation zone too. Sorry board, money generally does equal success. Try to make sure it's spent better by all means, have your scouts, look for value, think about whether you can sell them on eventually BUT you need to invest and you need to pay decent wages. There is NO other way. There isn't another team who has succeeded without spending money.

Why are people talking about this as fact? There is nothing anywhere to suggest this move is on. Not bothered either way, just wondering why it's being talked about like it's done when no media outlets are talking about it at all.

He definitely has an ego BUT that's probably a good thing. We need less timid players, less players who have zero confidence because an eight year old might shout something nasty... I liked the way he celebrated his first goal for the club, I like the way he was business like in his response to his goal today against poor opposition, I like that he wanted to explain stuff to the fans - not like he was shouting at them or anything. I think he is as disappointed as the rest of us, relegation isn't going to look god on his CV and I think he thought he'd be looking at the England squad this year rather than dealing with this crap. That being said he is not reliable and is lacking discipline as he tries to lead the club out this mess. I think he takes the responsibility of captain very seriously but is equally as disappointed with his own inconsistency as the rest of us. Before his goal he looked very good at RB and although he might not want to play there anymore, I think that's where he should stay going forward. A back four of Richards Okore Lescott Cissokho is our best defence. I have no issues with Richards' effort or desire.

I keep being told he's good in the air but that's it... I don't even get the 'good in the air' bit. He doesn't win a majority of his headers, there is little direction to them if he does. He doesn't attack crosses and gets out muscled at corners. I'd say he isn't even Villa's best player in the air. Add to that the fact he doesn't make runs, he has an awful touch, he can't hold up the ball and actually is one of the few players I don't think is even trying (I believe most are trying they're just very limited by ability) then he is an absolute waste of space as a squad player, never mind a starter. Kozak, Gabby offer more. Youngsters would at least get experience. Callum Robinson and Villa would be better served by offering him starts rather than Gestede, even though he may never meet the grade either.

The replay should be free for people who went to this game/ season ticket holders. A bit of PR, get a decentish crowd and is the least fans deserve after watching years of drivel. Otherwise I can see the crowd being less than 15k. But I also await comments that even free it's not worth it!