jackbauer24

Absolute bare minimum is a new LB, a strong leader in midfield and a striker who works hard and can hold up the ball as needed. We may also need a CB if Richards is going to be a worry week on week. Gana and Sanchez need to be dropped, they can't be trusted to keep the ball and I'd wager most of our conceded goals come from sloppy play from the midfield. Westwood, whilst not spectacular, can be trusted to do the simple stuff well. He should sit in front of the back four and sweep up and do the simple stuff as he's generally quite composed (not at shooting though!). Then have Veretout as a more forward thinking player along side a 'proper' midfielder who won't be caught napping, won't play lazy passes and won't be caught on the ball constantly. Then use combination of Ayew, Traore or Gil with a strong striker, one who can hold the ball up, who can bully defenders and actually cause problems. With that, we might get more points than Derby but think we need probably another two midfielders if anyone still holds any hope of survival. What's letting us down is our midfield, not the defence or strikers. They put undue pressure on the defence by lazy, sloppy passes and fail to create opportunities for forward players. To be honest, Gana, Sanchez, Westwood and Veretout aren't good enough. Veretout shown the briefest glimpses but no one else has. Sinclair, Traore, Gil and Grealish as the more creative midfielders also heavily lack in key areas (Sinclair ability, Traore team work, Gil strength and Grealish workrate). It's the mdfield letting us down. Put Delph and Cleverley back in there and I'm confident we'd be just outside the relegation zone. We'd still be lacking a forward but would be doing just enough with Ayew and either Sinclair, Traore or even Gabby helping out. We're never going to be comfortable with this many substandard players, but it's the midfied that really causes us the most probkems both defensively and going forward.

We're experiencing one of the most unpredictable seasons in years, Chelsea almost look like relegation candidates, Leicester are clear at the top and 'shocks' happen every week. The only predictable element of this season is Villa. We were useless last season and then lost all our better players. We then replaced them all with gambles. We have scored the fewest goals and have had the fewest shots on target. We cover the one of least amounts of ground per game. I think almost all stats put us in the relegation zone. There is nothing that indicates it's just a case of 'clicking' or it being luck. The quality ISN'T there. It's that simple. Chelsea can argue that it's due to extenuating circumstances and they'll be fine, we can't - they're is abolutely no evidence to support that. There isn't one team that is worse than us, never mind three. This team are incapable of winning another game without some new players, we'd get a few more scrappy draws at best. Villa getting relegated is about the only thing that can be guaranteed this season. There has been no evidence since August this team has anything about it.

Today was perfect for him. Britsh weather, no point playing it in the floor, Veretout, Bacuna, Hutton and Westwood trying to cross balls in. And to be fair to him he caused a few more problems than normal. But his impact was still minimal, just wasn't awful for once. But today was perfectly set up for him and doubt that 'perfect storm' will occur too many more times this season so I'd rather see Sinclair, Gabby or preferably Traore ahead of him when we play West Ham on Boxing Day.

I said the season either started or ended today. It ended. Point isn't good enough, we were awful first half and even in the second half they were more likely to get the winner in the last ten minutes where we looked happy with the draw. Ayew is only player who played well and he was pretty anonymous first half. This squad is awful, only 5 or 6 first team signings that settle immediately, a lot of luck with injuries and at least two other teams completely collapsing will change our fate.

Is anyone else beginning to wake up to the fact Lambert and Sherwood weren't the problem yet?! How bloody obvious do you need it to be? It's nothing to do with whoever is in charge, it's the fact the playing squad lacks ANY quality due to years of cost cutting, underinvestment and cheap players. A tweak here, a different substitution there will make no difference in the grand scheme of things. We'll still have the likes of Lescott, Sanchez, Gana, Veretout, Hutton, Guzan, Sinclair... they're just not good enough at all. We're down. I know that. I've known that for ages. The only 'if' for me is whether we'll go down as the worst team in Premier League history. Without signings I am convinced we will be, this team will be lucky to win one more game without new players. Our 'best' first XI is still awful.

I think he should be given a start but, like a lot of people on here, think it should be in more of a striker role. We have a lack of forward options, he refuses to pass anyway, he can beat a man and will take a shot. What's to lose? At least give him the confidence of a start and then take him off after 60 if it's not really working, can't see how he'd be worse than any other striking options.

Agree 100% with him on both N'Zogbia and Gabby. Also think he's got a very strong point with his view on Traore. But it always sits uncomfortably with me when any manager of any team shares this in public, it should be kept in house. Just screams of divisions, fractured relationships and an unhappy squad. Back every single one of them in public, then be honest with them at BMH. I always think clubs that share this kind of information and feelings with the press are in an even bigger mess than we think - and when that comes to Villa it must be bad!

There a lot better options out there than Gabby Agbonlahor. But the depressing thing is, here and now, he's still one of our best options up front - the lack of numbers doesn't help admittedly but he's also a better option than Gestede, even going forward will have more of an impact than Kozak does and I worry Ayew will be off the second we're relegated.

ANGRY - that we have an owner who is so useless as to get a club the size of Villa relegated. RELIEVED - that it's happening finally, I feel it was always coming and in a way wish it happened sooner to instigate change HOPEFUL - that owning a season ticket will be a pleasure rather than a chore for a year SCARED - that owning a season ticket will just see the same demise at a new lower level EMBARRASSED - by how bad we are, the fact we're going down with a whimper, losing 'ever-present' status AMBIVALENT - which is what Lerner's ownership has made lots of fans feel like. RELAXED - other than the last few years anyway, I saw this coming on September 1st. I've had very little doubt so have made peace with it. Nothing we can do about it and we know Lerner will do nothing about it so stopped caring. I go every week but don't get angry at the losses and barely celebrate rare goals such is going through the motions at the moment. The outcome is inevitable both game by game and the season as a whole. So... schizophrenic?!

Draw isn't good enough at this stage. If we're still happy picking up a point just because we're away against another lowly placed team then it's over. 3 points or nothing. The season starts, or finishes, on Saturday.

He was one of only two players to make an impact in the first half. It was limited and it lacked any true threat but he tried something and I prefer that to people backing out of stuff for fear of making a mistake. And talk of him being the worst player in the league is laughable. For a start he's better than Lescott, Clarke, Richardson, Sanchez, Gestede and Gabby. And that's without needing to think about the squad too much! He's also our top scorer this season for someone who doesn't play as a striker. Don't get me wrong, I'm hardly his biggest fan but in a way that's worse - he's not great and he's still better than half our squad.

Is it just me or is this basically our squad anyway? Minus Gestede, Gabby and Richardson who are useless rather than lack desire. So you'd pick from pretty much the squad we have... You're right about lack of desire and attitude though. I just think you can add Lescott (desire's gone at this stage of career), Bacuna (doesn't seem to take it seriously) Hutton (attitude is too agressive, desire is there in buckets), Clark (attitude/confidence), Gana (desire doesn't seem there, no extra runs, no passion, no voice, meek), Sinclair (attitude right, probably similar to Lescott regarding desire, especially with new kid), Grealish (attitude clearly, thinks he's made it) and Traore (not yet a team player). Doesn't mean the above can't be ok/ good players, just means currently they're not showing desire to win balls or the right attitude for the situation we're in. That's very different to ability though.

I don't think anyone is so out of their mind with rage that they can't see he's obviously not at fault for everything. Even me! In the same way you can't blame the manager when Sanchez gets caught on the ball by being useless for example... But it's Lerner's fault we have bad players, it's Lerner who's restricted the transfer budget to pennies to make every signing a bigger gambke than it needs to be, it's Lerner who has restricted the wages to peanuts so we attract prospects from lower standard divisions, it's Lerner who has hired the wrong people in every department, it's Lerner who has responded to practically every situation in the worst possible way, it's Lerner's fault even if he's just guilty of neglect. You can't really ever pin the fault on one man when any mass corporation goes under, but Lerner is more culpable than most. This wasn't market forces, or a result of external pressures or even increased competition from other teams - this was systematic failings by Lerner at every stage of his ownership. If a fat person has decided they've eaten too much for five years they are right to do something about it. They modify their diet, they cut out elements and cut back gradually. But what they don't do is go on a hunger strike for five years. They do that, they die. And that's what Lerner has effectively done with Villa. I have no issue with having a pauper for a Chairman and spending within boundaries is fine but that leaves only two outcomes; either he's a useless business man who has crippled this club after going on a five year spending splurge that was stupid to begin with and unsustainable OR he's a useless businessman who doesn't know how to modify a business and has neglected us to such a degree that we are where we are. Is he 100% responsible? No. No one ever is. 99% seems fair though. It's a limited chain of command, in an organisation he should have complete control over (no franchises, not 1000s of employees stretched across the globe). He needs to get a decent CEO, a decent Manager and a decent team. 20 people in simplistic terms. All very manageable to any Chairman who's in charge of a club the size of Villa (the biggest, most successful team in the midlands, the fifth most successful team in England and Prem Leage ever presents) with the riches this league brings. If he's got the wrong people in charge every time for the last ten years, that's all on him, he's had 3 or 4 CEOs and 6 or 7 managers, how any times do you need to get it wrong. And I've said it before; it boils down to one fact. He bought Aston Villa for a very cheap amount, debt free. He's now about to see us relegated with the worst squad most of us have ever seen and millions of pounds in debt. That's ALL Lerner.

Have you got a link that those interested can click on, I'd love to read it but have no idea what CITW is! Fox baffles me, I've been in the same room as him and spoken to him 1 to 1 and he comes across fantastically, he has answers for everything and says the right stuff. But then you see where we are, how we've got there, and you can't help but feel it's spin.

One of the worst players on the pitch first half (but it was a tight contest between about 9 of them) One of the best players on the pitch in the second half. We need more second half performances from him, but even then I'm not sure he's particuarly good he just looks good occasionally because compared to Sanchez, and even Gana to some extent, he's world class! He's shown nothing to suggest he's even on par with the likes of Delph or Cleverley or that he has it in his locker. He's pretty average but still one of our best midfielders. Depressing.

I never get this whole MON hatred thing, well not for his player purchases anyway. He was given money and spent some of it well and some of it exceedingly poorly. I don't think his performance in the transfer market was particularly good or bad. Petrov, Carew, Young, Milner, Delph, Downing all good purchases. But obviously recognise the Heskey, Sidwell and Davies disasters. But can he be overly faulted for spending more money than we could afford? Even if you argue that every signing was a bad one, every wage was excessive and it was all one massive disaster, the fault lies with Lerner. But worse still, if that much of a mistake has been made, what you don't do is just cut all spending on transfers and wages and keep doing it year on year for FIVE years. How bad a business man do you have to be to still be paying for a five year 'splurge' another five years later? And according to an article I found on net MON spent £120m in four years and recovered £39m - so £20m a season isn't even that excessive, it feels it now but £20m is kind of par for the course in this division. But then that admittedly doesn't cover wages - I doubt even MON discussed wages with players, that's Lerner again. Lerner took on a Premier League club for a bargain price, not in any debt. He is about to relegate us with our worst ever squad, and in huge debt, even if it is just to him. The fault for all this is his, and his alone.

Tom Fox's fault doesn't lie with which manager was in charge and for how long. It's such a minor part of our problem, we're basically arguing about who has made us play the best whilst still losing. I said this in September, we were done for the second the window closed and we hadn't responded to the departures we experienced. Lambert got us surviving with a squad that was marginally better than this one, Sherwood finished the job (coinciding with Benteke return) and then struggled with the much worse squad we have now. Now we have Garde who is also struggling with the rubbish players we have. Have a go at him for player purchases, sales, whether committees were used and the general cost cutting - but arguing over which manager lost in the worst way is so pointless. They all lost, they all had their own ways, it's the quality of the players that is the issue. Lambert, Sherwood, Garde even McDonald briefly - it makes no difference, good players win you matches whether you're a particuarly good manager or not. Some manager's might have got us to 14th/15th which Lambert did initially, but our current squad is capable of 20th, 19th at best. Sherwood might be 20th, Garde might be 19th but there isn't a manager out there that could get this squad of players out of the relegation zone.

As much as I hate him, I disagree. Delph would walk in to this team and provide both a lot more bite and a lot more drive. He'd not lose the ball as easily as Sanchez and Veretout, and he'd offer more attacking assistance than them too. He'd feed Ayew. In fact as much as I don't really rate our strikeforce, I think Ayew and one of Gabby, Sinclair or even Traore would be good enough if we had any midfield whatsoever. Benteke is obviously far superior but it's the midfield that lets us own defensively and in attack. They offer nothing.

Wrote this initially in the wrong thread. The season starts, or finishes, next week. A win is only thing to maintain an iota of hope, anything less and it's over.

Today was today. Hardly as if we have a good record against Arsenal at the best of times. The season either starts or finishes next week. It's as simple as that for me. Win and I'll retain a tiny bit of hope, anything less and it's finished.

I will accept it was all down to Sherwood if, even if he doesn't save us, Garde's Villa show at least midtable football (and results) from here on. However I'm very much in the camp that these players just aren't good enough, it's as simple as that. And others are right in saying we need some of our own shocks now too, can't write off any game. Although we lost 12-0 last season with a much better squad so it doesn't bode well! Assuming we lose tomorrow, the ONLY chance we have of even having hope is winning every game left this calendar year. We need 3 or 4 wins on the bounce. But just reading that sentence is laughable...

Just to put this in to further perspective, although there could be lots of barometers, this is a list of the 20 most successful clubs in England. You could argue this is what the Premier League should look like: 1. Man Utd - ever present in the Prem (£) era 2. Liverpool - as above 3. Arsenal - as above 4. Chelsea - as above 5. Villa - as above =. Spurs - as above =. Everton - as above ------------------------------------- The above teams could argue there is an element of 'right' to be considered a big team and no excuse to be relegated. 8. Man City - five seasons out the top league, but huge investment and somewhat of an anomaly - a small team acting/becoming big 9. Newcastle - two seasons out the top league, everyone laughs at the complete ineptitude of a Chairman who can get Newcastle United relegated. =. Forest - the first of the 'big boys of old' - only five seasons in the money league, missed the boat to some degree last seen 1999 =. Wolves - only four seasons in the money league 12. Blackburn - 18 seasons, monumentally badly run and everyone laughs at the Venky's ownership --------------- Other than Forest and Wolves who missed the boat, these teams need to epically mess up to be in trouble, Blackburn , Newcastle did! 13. Leeds - god, where to start, the epitome of a poorly run team =. Sheffield Weds - only eight seasons I top flight, missed the big money =. Sunderland - surviving just, despite only 15 seasons in money league =. West Brom - only ten seasons in money league, very much yo-yo but clearly well run 17. West Ham - 20 seasons, but some very dodgy ownership for a while that resulted in investigations etc 18. Portsmouth - another example of a team awfully run =. Burnley - getting in to the teams that are on border anyway =. Bolton - as above ----------------------------------------------- Smaller teams where there is an excuse for relegation, but Leeds and Portsmouth messed up hugely. *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_competitive_honours_won So teams that have been relegated that 'shouldn't' have been - Newcastle (Ashley). Blackburn (Venky), Leeds (Ridsdale and now Cellino) - Lerner will join that group. There really is NO excuse. No team has a divine right to be in the top league BUT you have to perform epically badly both on and off the pitch to get certain teams relegated. I think some people underestimate the blame that should be attached to Lerner for this. This is not the players or the managers, or whether he's paying for past mistakes, or if FFP shafted him. This is a person who bought a debt free Premier League team with a massive fanbase and a huge silverware collection and is about to get them relegated. He joins Ashley, Venky's, Risdale in the worst owners the Premier League has ever seen category.

There's all types of arguments and counter arguments about Lerner's spell in charge, from the hope of the past to the dispair of the future. But to me it is really simple. Unless their is a massive sporting upset (as in record setting) then Villa are going down. I don't care if it's due to not spending enough, spending badly, employing the wrong people, not being able to cope with FFP or any other reason - simply put the buck stops with him and no one else. Further more for a club the size of Villa historically and financially to be pretty much nailed on for relegation is so bad that I would argue he is the worst Chairman we have ever had. Gone are the days where 14 players can win the league, gone are days where minnows can rise to the top and stay there, all you need is a biggish team to begin with (Everton, Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham etc), a modicum of investment and some knowledge from football minds. If you get a team like the ones mentioned relegated you are doing an EXCEPTIONALLY bad job, there is no excuse in this day and age where money makes the biggest impact. Newcastle went down and everyone knows who's to blame for that. For an ever present Prem League club, with a massive historic ground, a decent structure (youth, training etc), the largest fan base in the Midlands, an illustrious history that was bought by Lerner with no debt (I believe) to be relegated in 2015/16 is nothing short of a disgrace of epic proportions and whatever the reasons, whether he's nicer than other Chairmen on a personal scale, shows such incompetence that he will go down as the biggest failure in our history. 30 years ago big teams could have been at risk more reguarly as teams were more closely matched but now the gap is so big there is little excuse for such a monumental failure that sees teams like West Brom, Swansea, Stoke and Souhampton miles ahead of us. There is NO excuse to make this acceptable.

Seeing as I think our biggest problem is the lack of strength or skill from our midfield, I'd set us up ultra defensive with fast players up front to hit on the route one type counter attack. We don't have a single player who could go toe to toe with an Arsenal midfielder so why bother? Guzan Hutton Richards Okore Clark/Ilori Westwood Sanchez Gana Traore Ayew Gabby Subs: Lescott, Richardson, Veretout, Sinclair, Kozak, Bacuna and Bunn Midfield to break up play, play simple balls, maintain possession and NOT try to take players on. Westwood will keep it tidy, Sanchez will be the enforcer and Gana's job to spot the passes. Gabby is good at holding up ball and Ayew and Traore's pace would get them up there quickly. Gabby is going to be isolated for huge periods of the match though. Gestede is useless, Kozak hasn't played and Ayew, Sinclair and Traore try to take players on too much against a team like Arsenal. We need Gabby on form hustling and causing problems. If (when) we go behind bring on Veretout for Westwood or Sanchez, Bacuna for LB and Kozak for Traore (Gabby going back) to go for more crosses with pace behind. If we somehow take the lead and are holding on, Ayew or Traore off for Veretout/Bacuna. No space for Grealish this week, not good enough for attack and we need more defensive players on bench to either hold any points or stop it being a rout. Prediction if everything goes perfectly 0-0. Otherwise I can see a 4/5 or even 6-0 loss with a shaky defence, confused midfied. The way our midfielders lost the ball last week whilst in possession would see an Arsenal team over run us. We need to be physical as we'll have little answer for their skill and can see our defence being split open at ease without the midfield helping out a lot.

I think I would definitely class as one of the negative posters and believe we're screwed... BUT it's just a symptom of how I lot of people use the internet, to get it off their chest, to rant and rave. It's a bit like saying how horrible your family are... but if anyone not from your family says it to you their so wrong! I definitely post on here a lot more when we're rubbish (I've obviously needed to quit my job to camp on here the last five years!) but it's just a way of getting the frustration out, screaming and having a tantrum! At VP I support them 100% every week. We're all here because we love Villa and just deal with the situation in different ways. I'm a supporter who rants and raves but goes every week. Others might be overly positive and opimistic but are staying away from VP til we improve. Neither is the 'right' or 'wrong' way.