jackbauer24

Gabby and Grealish have both been well out of form this season. Both are said to be Villa through and through. After their breaks for different reasons they need to now come back and bleed for the cause because an on form Grealish will cause problems, and an on form Gabby will make space and together they should be capable of at least us showing some fight as we go down. Yes Grealish is young and yes Gabby will never be prolific but both have offered more in recent times (last season) than the current players (Grealish for Sinclair and Gabby for Gestede). I think the season will make or break Grealish now, he's had the honeymoon, he's gone of the rails a tad so now it's decide which road to take - one he ends up where Kane or Barkley are, the other is the tale of Ireland or Bentley. We'll probably know by May.

Hutton - Richards - Okore - COLE would be an encouraging defence Any 'proper/ proven' striker would be an improvement, loan or not. We can't buy 'prospects' in January. We need both those to happen as otherwise every team will target our LB (Richardson, Bacuna or Clark?) and know we're very unlikely to score anyway! Can't see it happening though, would require wages...

I'm not sure there is a statistic to be found or whether I'm just fixating on his bad performances but yesterday was at least his second 'air shot' this season. Considering both his playing time, the number of shots he has and the fact he's supposed to be a striker, that just highlights how poor he is. All strikers do it, I remember the classic one Dublin did that ended up running through for Taylor (I think) to score but they are one-offs, humourous accidents not a regular part of your game. Especially as a striker. I have zero faith in him scoring with his feet and yet we are such awful crossers of the ball that his chances of scoring from them are greatly reduced anyway. Traore would offer more creativity up front, Sinclair would offer more speed, Gabby holds up the ball much better and Kozak would be more clinical with any chances that came his way. Gestede shouldn't be anywhere near the first team squad of a Premier League team and the fact he is shows why we are where we are as a squad - he's not even the worst player we have!

So by Christmas they were three points behind, by April they were 6 but with a game in hand. And they survived. If we're in either position by those milestones then I'll hold some hope, but I only see the gap being bigger by Xmas, not smaller.

Equally could be said Man City, Southampton we should have lost and Bournemouth was probably a draw based on how far ahead they could have been after the first half. All this would of, could of, should of is kind of pointless - we are where we are, we are universally seen as playing poorly more often than not and we have one of the biggest challenges to survive that any team has ever had. The question really is can we improve from this point forward so that there is no doubt we deserved to win a game? And can we get enough of them?

All this talk of other teams is relatively irrelevant. It's largely in our hands and is all whether WE are capable of getting to 35-40 points. We are now as many points from safety as we've got all campaign, but it's also 'only' six points. Forget records etc, is this squad capable of picking up the required points? Currently my view is no. Not even close. Our defence is arguably the weakest in the league, Lescott, Richardson are awful whilst Clark and Bacuna (defensively) aren't much better. Richards and Hutton are our 'best' defenders yet neither are amazing, Laursen like players. Our midfield is defensively frail with limited passing ability but also has very little bite. If we were to buy only one player in January it'd be a real engine in midfield. We need a Taylor, Petrov or Barry in there. Our strike force is Ayew. Gestede and Gabby offer nothing. But stay within 6 points of safety AND buy two or three first team players (a RB, Midfielder and a striker) and we MIGHT scrape to safety with a little luck. But then I have no faith Lerner would supply the appropriate funds or wages to get the required quality. Guzan Hutton, Okore, Richards, RB Gana, MF, Veretout Gil/ Traore, Ayew ST Subs; Sanchez, Sinclair, Bacuna, Gabby, Westwood, Bunn, Grealish Still wouldn't set the league alight but might scrape 17th with a little luck injury wise.

Good point, kind of. It's all well and good saying we'd take a point away at a Southampton side that is struggling recently, but eventually you need to start getting wins if we're to get out this mess. If you can't earmark a win against an out of form Southampton then you're really cutting down the number of teams that we can do that against. Four wins against Newcastle, Sunderland, Norwich and Bournemouth won't cut it. Fair enough write of the big 5 but we need a few wins from teams placed 6th to 14th or we're done. On saying that a point today was fantastic for performance reasons - we didn't deserve it at all. Both my stream, the BBC and what I was watching showed that the gulf in class, especially in the first half, was huge and 4 or 5-0 would not have flattered them. We score quite a fortunate goal after a poor delivery and suicidal defending from Saints but still didn't create many clear cut chances. Ayew is looking increasingly promising though, it's just our woeful midfield and our jittery defence that causes the issues. So an undeserved 'free' point, we need another against Arsenal and three against Newcastle. We need an unbeaten run. Today was always a case of holding on for the draw and you could see them trying to waste time almost immediately in the second half - the only way to inspire confidence is to earn it and that's not sitting back protecting a 1-0 lead for 45minutes. Have a go for another 25 and then protect if you've got nowhere. Happy with the point. Disappointed we didn't make more of our fortune.

Well once again I was sitting five rows from the front, right next to the dugout and pretty much everything I saw was pathetic. And the ten odd people around me that chat every week also agreed it was pathetic. The defence couldn't handle Watford's forwards, the midfield lost countless battles and misplaced numerous passes and the striker was largely uninvolved for large swathes of the match. There was little quality from anything other than setpieces, which just is odd that if you're going to focus on whipping balls in that you don't put a target man in the box to at least cause problems. We spent a lot of the time lost for ideas. Traore was probably man of the match based on a late substitute appearance, that says a lot! So no, I don't think it is unfair at all and neither do all the people who sit around me. This isn't a "I'm a better fan than those who don't go" but it is what me and lots of people think based on what we're seeing week in, week out with our own eyes.

Well I hate to say 'told you so' but now having seen our non-attacking draw against Man City, our capitulation against Everton and a pathetic performance against an incrdibly poor Watford I feel a lot of people will see that as a realistic statement! And I said no wins before Xmas (i.e. before we make any signings) not ever. Does anyone see a win against one of Southampton (a), Arsenal (h), Newcastle (a), West Ham (h) or Norwich (a)? I can't. Realistic comes from us being odds on to lose or draw each of those games. We won't be favourite for one of them. It comes from being the worst team ever at this stage. It comes from us shipping goals at ease, it comes from our midfield show lack of both fight or guile and it comes from our strikers offering next to nothing. In fact I'd go as far as saying that without significant first team signings in January, we will be relegated with less points than Derby achieved with this squad. People still have faith in the players and think they just lack tactics/ fitness/ organisation/ fight/ confidence or whatever other excuse. I think it's simpler than that - they lack quality. Richards can be a good defender, the rest are useless more often than not. The midfield doesn't have a standout player, certainly not reliable, and the strikers don't score. If we were truly honest we'd keep Richards and... Ayew? Traore and Grealish have potential but have rarely delivered. Oh and Amavi, but typical our best player gets a significant injury. Every single one of the rest of them isn't good enough.

Regarding the players, my view is that you can really only have a go if they're not trying, not showing any fight. N'Zogbia is a prime example of this. But if they're simply not capable or good enough then it's not really their 'fault'. And this is what I've been stating for ages. The players aren't good enough. Simply put, they don't have the quality for this division. Maybe management, tactics and motivation haven't helped but ultimately I think even at their best they'd be classed as mediocre. And that fault lies with Lerner for not supplying the money for quality additions. Some will argue the money has been mis-spent but with the figures, especially wage wise, I think it's a very difficult task with zero room for error - when sending so little you can't even afford for one player to be a dud. Fault only lies with those not trying. The players are trying but aren't good enough. Lerner isn't trying.

Where is the evidence for statements like this? I understand historically that may have been the case but I am fairly confident it isn't this season. Bunn isn't paid more than Given, Gestede isn't paid more than Bent, Veretout isn't paid more than Delph, Gana isn't getting what Cleverley got, Richards might match Vlaar? I also bet the likes of Lowton, Weimann and even Sylla get more money than their replacements (Crespo, Ayew and Ilori) Such is the gap in quality between these players, I'd confidently guess we are saving at least £100-150k a week from last years wages. You know, from the squad that finished 17th and lost all its decent players. That's why Lerner deserves all he gets.

If I was to take out the fact I support Aston Villa, then I'd be ecstatic we were getting relegated. I'm sure I'm like a lot of fans that likes to see stupidity/ lack of respect punished. Much like many fans look at the likes of Newcastle's Ashley or Cardiff changing their badge or Blackburn sacking endless managers and hope they get relegated as it's what they deserve. Aston Villa deserve relegation. Lerner deserves relegation. The fans don't. But we'll be back and wherever we may be they'll always have my support. And once the hurt subsides I may raise a smile at the thought that Lerner lost a shed load of cash and goes down in history as a massive failure. Sorry, but get relegated in this day and age when the reality is big clubs (which we used to be) just need to pay to stay in the league and he'll go down as a far worse chairman than Ellis. For all Ellis' flaws there was less guarantee that money equalled success, a small team could play 14 players and win the league - all Lerner needed to do was invest equally to all most teams in the last four years - if he overspent initially that's his fault, you cant just cut all funds, you reach a realistic level and stick to it and he's failed to do this. Wages mostly. Happy he'll pay, gutted I will too.

I didn't realise quite how good Hutton was! http://talksport.com/football/gareth-bale-wayne-rooneyand-alan-hutton-included-lequipes-great-britain-xi-151117174593 (Talk Sport)

Regarding Austin I think it's now even less likely we, or anyone else, will buy him in January. Unlike in summer when a few clubs obviously decided he wasn't worth the gamble for £15m the power has now shifted more in his favour - just see out the remainder of the season then get the choice of any Premier League team with a nice signing on bonus. What you don't do is join a struggling club that might 'trap' you back in the Championship on a longer contract.

This is another problem with trying to discuss emotive issues, people take one line from a general point and get offended by it or make it more sweeping than it is generally meant. Context is an important issue but so is recognising that any disussion relies on making similarities to experiences the reader may be more familiar with, quite clearly in this case where it is stated it's principly unfair but it is about self-governing and clearly making sure everyone knows you're nothing to do with what is being represented under your name. I didn't once state all Islamic countries should be punished, I said peer pressure from those you respect modifies your behaviour and a load of rich white politicians in Britain is not going to curtail radicalism as effectively as a more robust response from Islamic scholars. Self-policing. And I don't care what you or anyone else in this thread says both against or in support of my short little paragraph that states a general belief I have, I have no intention of commenting in this thread again. I'm self-governing to recognise there will always be people who like to get all het up about stuff that really isn't required and it's not worth arguing semantics over such issues.

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion, I am neither educated or worldly enough to have all the answers to complex issues I have neither the experience or beliefs to base my comments on. However I do think, as unfair as it may seem, that the only way there is a real chance of preventing radicalism is if the religions from which it originates far more proactively step away from themselves being in any way represented by the actions of individuals who act in 'their name' or speak for 'their god'. Not a throw away statement about disagreeing, but full on rooting out, reporting, shaming and proactively separating themselves from these people. At the moment it often feels like there is an underlying sympathy for their beliefs, for their strong feelings with just a simple public appeasement of "but I wouldn't have gone that far". It's the way of the world. If a few football fans cause trouble, a club's name is pulled through the mud and the club is fined or punished. Obviously that's not fair on the 95% of decent fans but is a understandable deterrent to make clubs stamp out any chances it happens again. I'm sure when you were at school a small majority of the kids in your class caused trouble and the whole class was punished, principly unfair but peer pressure means it's less likely to happen again. As a general rule, people and groups need to effectively police themselves and any outside groups that try to influence that are often fought against. Many religions have had their spells of both persecution, and being the persecuted, but as a generalisation they need to remove that element from within. At the moment I don't think the Islamic community is doing enough PR, enough action or enough to remove themselves from the horrors that are commited under their name.

I'd rather move Hutton, get Bacuna in that side, try Ilori, use Crespo, push Clark over there with Okore in as CB or practically anything rather than Richardson come back. Anything apart from involve Lescott. That's the line.

One match down so a bit early to be jumping to any conclusions but first impressions are good. He picked the team most people have been crying out for. He was calm and focused on match (I hate that give us a wave chant unless you're winning comfortably) and within about three minutes I turned to my girlfriend and commented how obvious the change was with us playing keep ball - must have had 100% possession in first three minutes. The result was great, the endeavour was good and there was a fair bit of luck on ourside but you get the feeling that the confidence gained from that game may be more important than the point. However, like always, it will mean nothing without a point or three against Everton. We need a little run of at least not getting beat. It was Man City so it's understandable, but you still can't see a clear sign of where goals are going to from, not consistently anyway. I hope once Garde has confidence in our defence that he turns to our midfielders and strikers to give them the confidence to start taking more shots. At least have a go. We need to be within 5 or 6 points heading in to January and get a striker in if we are to get out of this. I think Garde will get us a few more draws but I still can't see many, if any, wins with our sparsity of quality in the final third.

I'm a complete embarrassment too then. Westwood probably would have done a very similar job to Veretout today, perhaps less attacking intent but definitely better control as Veretout got caught out more than once today despite having a good game. I never have understood the hate for Westwood, he may have his limitations but he's never really let us down, can't think of a time when he's been the worst player on the pitch like Richardson, Lescott or even Gabby. In fact Hutton in his early days here was often the worst player on the pitch. Westwood rarely drops below average and peaks in to good and excellent with a good team around him. He'll never be outstanding but a team that looks to just be midtable doesn't need that yet!

Without at least three first team ready signings in January, I can't see us staying up. We need a CB, an experienced midfielder (we have lots of potential but no leader/ calm head in there) and a relatively 'safe' bet for a striker. Obviously all signings have an element of risk but we really need to look very short term with any signings in January and getting someone like Austin would be perfect - regardless if much discussed injury worries. Short term, experienced heads with relegation clauses would do me, or even loans.

I only speak for myself here, but a few posters on here seem to imply that if you aren't positive about Villa going forward then we're overly negative, whining and almost wallowing in self pity. That's not the case. I don't feel I'm being negative, just realistic but recognise that everyone has a differing opinion. What I would say that is despite my views as to our predicament and the quality of our squad I still support Villa 100% at VP and have not given up - I just feel we have to tread water til January as I think however good Garde may be, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear! Realising this means more pressure should build on Lerner supplying significant money in January - it worries me that some people seem to think a change of manager is enough. I just don't see it.

Not picking on you but you made a concise point so I wanted to ask a simple question if this is your thinking. You say we have a good enough squad to survive and it just needs direction and them playing to their potential so, if we are relegated, does this mean Garde failed and was another bad manager? My issue is I DO think this squad is bad enough to be cut a drift, I genuinely do, and take no pleasure from it (I have a season ticket a few rows from the dugout so have to exper8this pain every few weeks!) but have seen very little individual quality in the players even if you put aside the team aspect. I'm not certain that the squad is good enough to survive. I believe they are. But am I certain? No But what I am certain of is that the squad is better than results have suggested so far this season and that that is down to mismanagement. So will Garde have failed if we still go down? That is impossible to say right now. He's landed in the job in a very tough position. Technically speaking yes, he will have failed, because I imagine his remit is to keep us up. However, from this position I'm not entirely sure that makes him a bad manager. That will be totally dependant on what we see from him from now until the end of the season. The squad isn't great, but I cannot fathom anyone who believes our league position accurately reflects the quality of the squad. Again, I'm not trying to say it is MUCH better than our league position, but I think it's nigh on unarguable that the squad is not as bad as 4 points in mid november. There are so many things that Sherwood did that has proved detrimental to the team. To suggest that he has gotten as much out of the squad as possible is just ignoring all of those things. Things like not playing Gil, the decline of effectiveness of Grealish, the weird and constantly changing formations, the misuse of personnel like Ayew, the setup of the defence, the inability to respond to anything the opposition manager does (Stoke, Leicester, Sunderland etc) All of those things have effected us negatively. Just ONE of them could have made a difference. if we hadn't tactically imploded vs Leicester, for example, and held onto the victory we'd be 18th. If we'd reacted to Advocaat's changes at half time in the Sunderland game and beaten them we'd be 19th. The margins are incredibly fine. I cannot be convinced that, under a better manager, we would STILL be in this position, which appears to be what KHV and possibly yourself are suggesting. Just one victory would see us 18th and a point from safety. I can't believe that anybody really thinks that has been beyond us so far this season. If the argument is are we capable, or should we be, higher in the league than we are with more points then I can see a strong argument to agree with that. We could be 19th, 18th even 17th with a bit of luck/better management here and there. BUT, this also ignores the fact we've had a very easy start in most respects. If anyone is arguing that changing the manager makes no difference then I disagree with them, but it's whether it makes a significant difference. My belief, as much as I don't like it, is that the scope for Garde to improve is severely hampered by the quality in the squad. I think quibbling over 20th or 18th is kind of irrelevant when you still get relegated either way.

Not picking on you but you made a concise point so I wanted to ask a simple question if this is your thinking. You say we have a good enough squad to survive and it just needs direction and them playing to their potential so, if we are relegated, does this mean Garde failed and was another bad manager? My issue is I DO think this squad is bad enough to be cut a drift, I genuinely do, and take no pleasure from it (I have a season ticket a few rows from the dugout so have to exper8this pain every few weeks!) but have seen very little individual quality in the players even if you put aside the team aspect. Richards for example has shown leadership, aggression (too much!) and gone on a few marauding runs but Veretout, Crespo, Gana, Sanchez, Lescott, Gabby, Gestede haven't shown any quality, to differing amounts. Gana looks ok but fairly anonymous, but no where near Delph quality and you'd expect that regardless of management he individually would have created more excitement even if there was no end product, a run, a shot, something. Gestede is solely about attacking headers (but his flickons are awful, watch them next match) and no amount of training and organisations is going to give Lescott back the years. I think our 'best XI' is still far far too weak. The best defence we can muster has at least one dodgy CB. The strike force we have is simply not good enough, it's the key aspect that relegates teams not scoring goals and even the most optimistic fan recognises we HAVE to place hope in Ayew as there are no other options. In the midfield we have a lot more choice and luxury players which is the one area Garde may make an impact. I'll be back at VP year on year regardless of what division we're in. I'll support any new manager and the players during the match. But I can't lie to myself to pretend these are good enough players to help us survive because I don't believe that. Garde might be able to take them in and get them organised and understanding each other and perhaps even fitter and concentrate more, but I doubt he can make them significantly better and younger! If he makes us more solid we will pick up a few points and draws, I can see that, but I'm fairly sure it'll also kill our chances of scoring as we struggled to do that with a gung-ho approach. I hope I'm wrong.

I could not disagree with you more. Cheryl is still a babe! But Gabby is well past it.

I don't mean to pick on you but this is indicative of the kind of hyperbole that's getting thrown around right now. Gestede banged in 20 league goals for Blackburn last season but you're suggesting he would have to drop down four tiers to get regular football? He's no world beater, but he could do a job in the right set up against the right opposition. And that's been our biggest problem so far - tactics and team selections feel like they've come from a dart-throwing monkey hidden in the basement of VP. Can we stay up? It's a big ask but it's possible if RG get's a team playing with belief and plays to their strengths. It'll be a fight, but no need to abandon all hope just yet. He might turn out to be a complete muppet, or he might turn it around. It's certainly not impossible that we'll be playing Prem football next year. I would hope it's clear that it is not meant literally, it is a mechanism used to highlight how bad they are in comparison to the rest of the squad and the league as a whole. Obviously they are not bad enough for League Two, in the same way people proclaim x player shouldn't even earn a wage as a footballer or the referee must be blind or we hope they give 110%... Sorry, should I just say they're all doing a better job than me so well done to them all? In fact every player today played better than any of the people who write on these boards ever could. Clap, clap, hooray for everybody. Except Richardson. I'm better than Richardson.