The Rémi Garde thread

[TRO]

51 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Worst of all time? No.

But Sherwood is certainly one of the worst managers Villa have had in my lifetime as a fan (since Big Ron). I don't think that's Hyperbole at all.

As for Remi, it's impossible to say how good or bad he'll be.

For me, he's shown more in his 3 games here than Sherwood has shown all season. But that could be down to a number of factors. Just look at the reaction Sherwood got last season, for example. Plus, I think he comes across as knowledgeable, calm, organised, and intelligent. Things which Sherwood could only dream of.

So my prediction is he'll do well for us and will prove to be better than Sherwood. But that's really based on a hunch at this point.

FWIW I disagree with how you have arrived at your Judgment, but I appreciate you reserve the right to do that.

They are both very different in their expression,granted, but may I just say there is no set demeanor that signifies knowledge.....you could be loud or quiet, thats just the delivery of whats inside.

I have no axe to grind with Remi, but he would not have been my first choice, the fact he is here, I will support him all the way.

Tim was very confident bordering on Arrogant, but so was Cloughie, so I would not mar him for that....Ron S was quiet like Remi, so I'm in support of that too.

but for me I would not draw on that as a barometer of the likelyhood of having a successful manager

I am not sure how you evaluate how one manager is more knowledgeable than the other, I would not like to call Remi or Tim, just because one is calm and collective does not assume to be the superior.....I have heard nothing different from Remi only the style of his delivery.....so Unless I have been to BMH to watch them work and I haven't i can only go by what happens on the field and my interpretation.

The proof of the pudding is on the football field, so we shall see......But I guess I am hoping you are right and I am wrong, although in January Remi, might have the opportunity to satisfy my point.....that its the players who are not good enough, (particularly in KEY positions.....The spine mainly)

so we both could be barking up the wrong tree.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

FWIW I disagree with how you have arrived at your Judgment, but I appreciate you reserve the right to do that.

They are both very different in their expression,granted, but may I just say there is no set demeanor that signifies knowledge.....you could be loud or quiet, thats just the delivery of whats inside.

I have no axe to grind with Remi, but he would not have been my first choice, the fact he is here, I will support him all the way.

Tim was very confident bordering on Arrogant, but so was Cloughie, so I would not mar him for that....Ron S was quiet like Remi, so I'm in support of that too.

but for me I would not draw on that as a barometer of the likelyhood of having a successful manager

I am not sure how you evaluate how one manager is more knowledgeable than the other, I would not like to call Remi or Tim, just because one is calm and collective does not assume to be the superior.....I have heard nothing different from Remi only the style of his delivery.....so Unless I have been to BMH to watch them work and I haven't i can only go by what happens on the field and my interpretation.

The proof of the pudding is on the football field, so we shall see......But I guess I am hoping you are right and I am wrong, although in January Remi, might have the opportunity to satisfy my point.....that its the players who are not good enough, (particularly in KEY positions.....The spine mainly)

so we both could be barking up the wrong tree.

I would have no problem with Tim's demeanour if he could have backed it up with a good performance as manager. I said as much last season when we were doing well that even though he came across as arrogant, it was actually quite endearing when we were winning games. Jose Mourinho is an absolute word removed of the highest order, but it doesn't matter when he's winning games (or was).
But as soon as that good performance disappeared for us then it becomes tired and irritating to have somebody like that in charge.

I also don't judge my opinion of Sherwood's knowledge on his demeanour. I judge that on the dismal performances I've seen this season and the words that come out of his mouth. None of that indicated that he had much of a clue what was going on, which he admitted as much himself.

This is off topic, so to bring it back round to Garde, you're totally right, the proof is in the pudding. And as I've said, I've already seen more in 2 out of 3 performances from Garde than I saw from Sherwood all season. I've seen players played in a real formation, I've seen our best players selected in positions that are actually suited to them on most occasions, and I've seen as good an attacking performance as I've seen from us in about 18 months, even if we were let down at the other end of the pitch.

But, I'm happy to admit that those are only baby steps and that there is a lot more to do before we can conclude he's improved us, and that it isn't necessarily down to Garde. It might be the legendary new manager bounce, but I'm reserving the right to be optimistic. I think he's started to turn the ship, whether he'll make the full u-turn we'll have to wait and see.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I would have no problem with Tim's demeanour if he could have backed it up with a good performance as manager. I said as much last season when we were doing well that even though he came across as arrogant, it was actually quite endearing when we were winning games. Jose Mourinho is an absolute word removed of the highest order, but it doesn't matter when he's winning games (or was).
But as soon as that good performance disappeared for us then it becomes tired and irritating to have somebody like that in charge.

I also don't judge my opinion of Sherwood's knowledge on his demeanour. I judge that on the dismal performances I've seen this season and the words that come out of his mouth. None of that indicated that he had much of a clue what was going on, which he admitted as much himself.

This is off topic, so to bring it back round to Garde, you're totally right, the proof is in the pudding. And as I've said, I've already seen more in 2 out of 3 performances from Garde than I saw from Sherwood all season. I've seen players played in a real formation, I've seen our best players selected in positions that are actually suited to them on most occasions, and I've seen as good an attacking performance as I've seen from us in about 18 months, even if we were let down at the other end of the pitch.

But, I'm happy to admit that those are only baby steps and that there is a lot more to do before we can conclude he's improved us, and that it isn't necessarily down to Garde. It might be the legendary new manager bounce, but I'm reserving the right to be optimistic. I think he's started to turn the ship, whether he'll make the full u-turn we'll have to wait and see.

On the Contrary, I have not seen any "new manager bounce" .....Only the Man City game did I see anything resembling it, but that soon faded ( not a criticism, more an observation)

I am not at this early stage, expecting anything from him, as I would have expected from any manager..... a long haul.

like you quite rightly say, we will have to wait and see.

[TRO]

My worry for Remi, in a few months, some analyst, whether it be fan or journalist, will make a Comparison with Sunderland and Sam Allardyce.

Some will point to Pulis at Albion,because lets face it not long ago they were worse than us.

I'm not saying Allardyce or Pulis would do any better, but you know how folk talk.

[TRO]

I know we all have our opinions about work rate, but I don't see covering ever blade of grass as a "get out of jail card" for work rate.

I want to see players closing down, denying the opposition space and comfort to play, squeezing and challenging for balls consistently, being an absolute nuisance.

What I see is a team intent on running all day as long as the opposition are ten yards away from them.....That for me is not work rate, its work shy.

its a mans game.

I don't think Watford are technically better than us, what they do is the ugly stuff much better.

[VillaCas]

Not work shy for me. We worked hard enough but we made far too many errors at the back. 

This is down to the players available not Garde.  Richards is a strange one for me - he has all the attributes athletic, strong, quick, aggressive but he lacks composure and I think any back four with him in will lack shape.  Clark needs a Vlaar-like presence to guide him through games.

[AndyBM]

In the past, we've always blamed the managers for poor performances and facing relegation, O'Neill, McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood, however, now that relegation is a certain, the manager at the helm currently cannot be blamed, the ineptitude of previous managers and the chairman has brought this on, Remi has came too late.

[DCJonah]

On 30/11/2015, 12:06:22, Stevo985 said:

I disagree. Not about Everton, that was bad.

But Saturday was better than anything we've produced this season, imo. We were just let down by defensive frailties. 

Which is obviously ultimately the manager's responsibility, but I'm willing to give him more than a couple of weeks to sort that out.

Against Sunderland we had more shots than we did on Saturday. 

We made more passes than we did on Saturday.

And we spent more time in the opposition third than we did on Saturday. 

I really don't think Garde has had much impact at this point.

 

[Stevo985]

6 on target in both games. And Sunderland are a significantly poorer team than Watford. So it's all relative (although number of passes and, to an extent, time spent in opponents third don't mean much)

But fair enough, that was also a decent performance without much reward. But against Watford we lost because of defensive errors. Against SUnderland we were undone by the manager not knowing how to counter a relatively simple change from Sunderland.

I still rate the Watford game as better going forward. And given the slump that's come before it it was probably a tougher task to get that out of the team.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Stevo985

[DCJonah]

I wouldn't really disagree with your reasons why you'd put it ahead. I just haven't seen enough in the last 3 games to say its been better than anything else we've seen this season. With the next few games, I'm not sure that will change much.

 

[markavfc40]

59 minutes ago, AndyBM said:

 Remi has came too late.

Possibly but he can't get a free hand in all this.

He came in with 27 games to go. With us four points from safety. A tough ask but doable for me. I thought under Sherwood that we had as good a squad as at least half a dozen other sides and I still think the same. For me Sunderland, Bournemouth, Watford, Norwich, Swansea, West Brom, Newcastle are not on paper better than us.

If Remi can't improve quite dramatically on his predecessors 0.5 points per game ratio this season then we chose the wrong manager. I think we needed some new manager bounce and needed a win within the first 3 games to give us something to build on. It has not materialised though and the pressure has increased as we are further from safety with less games. I fear we will get nothing from the next two games and Remi will be 5 games in with 1 point on the board and if that is the case, then regardless of what went before, that is not good enough.

Clearly it is way too early to make any kind of judgement on Remi but if come the time we go to Newcastle we are till sitting on 5 points then we can safely assume the change in manager will have made zero positive difference in terms of us being competitive and giving ourselves any chance of staying up which would render changing manager pointless.

There is no doubt that Remi comes across well but results are what he will be judged on. I know many fans were way more exited and pleased with his appointment than they were when Sherwood came in to replace Lambert and being honest I also found him an intriguing appointment. Bottom line is though that whether some liked him or not Sherwood came in last season when we were on a dire run and was tasked with improving results and keeping us up. He achieved that which meant he started the following season with us. The same has to apply to Remi and he needs to show something and a decent upturn in results to maintain belief in him going in to next season regardless of what division we are in.

Edited December 1, 2015 by markavfc40

[Cliffy Biro]

But sherwood was always going to give an initial bounce with his swagger and ego but it wore off quickly luckily it was enough to save us, hopefully Garde's ideas will come around to bear fruit in the end for the longer term and hopefully with enough time for us to survive. 

I do agree though, on the face of it you have 28 games and you are 4 points from safety, surely that is do-able for a good manager? Only time will tell of course.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Cliffy Biro

[Keyblade]

One thing that pleases me and gives me a glimmer of hope is that for the first time in years we actually look like having a bit of end product after constructing attacks from the back. Like, we actually create chances from time to time. For years, whenever we try to play a passing game we just struggle to get to the opponents' penalty box let alone threaten the goal.

[New_Jersey_Villa]

I don't think if we had Jesus Christ, Darth Vader or Ronald McDonald as a manager it would matter very much, until we stop gifting the opposition at least 1 goal a game. I realize we got a 0-0 with Man City, but the chances we did gift them, they fecked up.

[VillakevBromsgrove]

It takes time to change things round, we have had the international break in the middle of his time here so he was short on time working with the whole squad. He has a tough job, to save us he has to set new records in premier league history. I am not sure he can do it with the squad we have but I will certainly give him a chance. The biggest thing for me is the teams above have not really left us behind even with our poor points tally. It is certainly not over yet by a long shot. Newly promoted teams normally get off to a flier and fade in the second half of the season as teams learn how to play against them. The problem is after the last few years of trash we have watched we have all lost faith and expect the worst.

[il_serpente]

I think it was always a big ask for Garde to give the same kind of short-term bounce that Sherwood did, because the situations they came into were so different and the contrast between each of them and their predecessor did not lend itself to producing similar reactions.

Under Lambert there was clearly a malaise throughout the organization and fan base, and the players seemed to have lost faith in him to inspire them and turn them around. The liberating effect of of removing the wet blanket and having a high energy, positive personality come in and emphasize hard work and freedom to attack is the ideal recipe for a short-term bounce.

In contrast, it's clear that Sherwood hadn't lost all the players' faith regardless of what the supporters thought, and the newness of the season probably didn't have them convinced that we were as good as down without a change. Couple that with Garde's low key demeanor and it's not exactly a situation that you'd expect to light an immediate fire. His best shot at success (and any other prospective appointment's, really) was always going to be a sure, steady hand that could get the team settled and playing consistently as a unit, with players gaining confidence in themselves and their teammates and believing that places in the first team will be determined by merit. Whether there was/is enough time for that dynamic to save Villa's place in the Premier League is another matter, particularly since most of us still aren't sure that the players are good enough regardless of what Garde does.

To me, he's shown some progress, particularly in that team selections seem based on some underlying logic that takes into account players' performances and their suitability for his strategy for a particular match. He got it spot on against City, mostly right against Watford and terribly wrong against Everton. Everton was a stark reminder of his lack of PL savvy. Watford was a reminder of the team's fragile confidence and the size of the task before him. I'm still optimistic that in time he'll get things on track if the supporters don't write him off too soon. I'm less optimistic that there will be enough time to catch three other teams.

[Wainy316]

Some of our attacking play was excellent on Saturday, unfortunately we're worse at the back than we are good up top.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, il_serpente said:

I think it was always a big ask for Garde to give the same kind of short-term bounce that Sherwood did, because the situations they came into were so different and the contrast between each of them and their predecessor did not lend itself to producing similar reactions.

Under Lambert there was clearly a malaise throughout the organization and fan base, and the players seemed to have lost faith in him to inspire them and turn them around. The liberating effect of of removing the wet blanket and having a high energy, positive personality come in and emphasize hard work and freedom to attack is the ideal recipe for a short-term bounce.

In contrast, it's clear that Sherwood hadn't lost all the players' faith regardless of what the supporters thought, and the newness of the season probably didn't have them convinced that we were as good as down without a change. Couple that with Garde's low key demeanor and it's not exactly a situation that you'd expect to light an immediate fire. His best shot at success (and any other prospective appointment's, really) was always going to be a sure, steady hand that could get the team settled and playing consistently as a unit, with players gaining confidence in themselves and their teammates and believing that places in the first team will be determined by merit. Whether there was/is enough time for that dynamic to save Villa's place in the Premier League is another matter, particularly since most of us still aren't sure that the players are good enough regardless of what Garde does.

To me, he's shown some progress, particularly in that team selections seem based on some underlying logic that takes into account players' performances and their suitability for his strategy for a particular match. He got it spot on against City, mostly right against Watford and terribly wrong against Everton. Everton was a stark reminder of his lack of PL savvy. Watford was a reminder of the team's fragile confidence and the size of the task before him. I'm still optimistic that in time he'll get things on track if the supporters don't write him off too soon. I'm less optimistic that there will be enough time to catch three other teams.

just about where I am on all this....very well put.

[El-Reacho]

16 hours ago, TRO said:

I know we all have our opinions about work rate, but I don't see covering ever blade of grass as a "get out of jail card" for work rate.

I want to see players closing down, denying the opposition space and comfort to play, squeezing and challenging for balls consistently, being an absolute nuisance.

What I see is a team intent on running all day as long as the opposition are ten yards away from them.....That for me is not work rate, its work shy.

its a mans game.

I don't think Watford are technically better than us, what they do is the ugly stuff much better.

There has to be a strategy to work rate though. Sherwood had the team playing with a huge work rate at the start of the season - chasing everything, and repeatedly we ran out of steam at the 60 minute mark and were useless after that. A well coached side will know exactly when to close and when not to close - to preserve energy. Pirlo took it to the point where he never had to break sweat let alone tackle anyone.

The City game showed clear instructions on when the team were to let City have the ball - even when they were in our half.

[kurtsimonw]

In the past, we've always blamed the managers for poor performances and facing relegation, O'Neill, McLeish, Lambert and Sherwood, however, now that relegation is a certain, the manager at the helm currently cannot be blamed, the ineptitude of previous managers and the chairman has brought this on, Remi has came too late.

If he's a good manager, obtaining 4 more points than 3 teams over 27 games is surely not a massive ask, is it? We've actually moved 4 points further from safety in just 3 games! It's obviously in part due to having 2 tough games so far, but if he doesn't pick up points in the next 12 or so then he's pro ably just not very good either.