Official's decisions - "it evens out over a season"

[Folski]

 

Could we keep some kind of table?

 

Well volunteered mate.  Great idea.

 

 

I'll do it no problem but I may miss quiet a few things, I feel the Premier League should be only competition used, if there were any dubious decisions from the weekend list them there only ones off top of my head were the Southampton penalty, Vlaar not being sent off, missing any?

[Jarpie]

The problem starts when players and managers have refs mobile numbers and text and call them for little chats, jokes and general back slapping. Invites to parties and club days and all the rest of the corporate lobbying type shit that goes on. Telling your mates fergie or mourinho is on the phone or texting is a big ego boost for anyone.  

 

There shouldn't be any kind of contact between referees and the clubs outside of the associations, and those who would be found out to have contact, should be dismissed immediately.

[BOF]

I see exactly what you're saying, and you're right. But "corruption" to me implies a very deliberate, cunning effort, and it's hard for me to see the motivation in Friend's case. Wouldn't such corruption be possibly a criminal offence, too? What's in it for him? To me, it seems more like a kind of reckless cowardice than deliberate, cunning effort to damage certain sides. In any case, he sucks. He's not up to PL standards.

Note that I have never once used the term corruption and I am not implying criminality. All we have presently is a growing body of work attributed to him favouring our opposition. Even if it is a subconscious thing on his part the net result is the same. He does not give Aston Villa Football Club a fair crack of the whip when he is the referee. That is enough for us to request he not referee our games. I'm not suggesting payments or that he has a season ticket with the bluenoses. I'll use the more umbrella term of bias which is inclusive of all manner of innocent aswell as not-so-innocent motivations. But if AVFC are getting f**ked over by him on a consistent basis then he needs to stop reffing our games. Simple as that. It's up to the powers-that-be to figure out the reasons why.

[daft]

Referee's should be interviewed immediately after the game just like the players & managers & asked to give account of their major cock ups.

 

Imagine what bullshit Kevin Enemy would come out with, squirming with embarrasment as he trys to explain away the Ivanovic's assault on Benteke & Terry's blatant hand ball.

 

Imagine the interviewer - " How the f*ck did you get those two decisions so ridiculously wrong Kevin, you were only standing 5yds away? Can you understand why many people have come to the conclusion that you are a F*****G cheat & that you are favouring the rich 4?"

 

Or Dowd after Wembley 2010 - "F*ck me Phil, how the hell has Vidic stayed on the pitch there for that foul on Agbonlahor? It's a clear sending off decision because he was clean through on goal & he has been denied a clear goal scoring scoring opportunity? Plus why did you allow Rafael to escape two blatant bookable offences & then book James Collins for his first offence? Double standards or what Phil? Can you understand Phil why many people have come to the conclusion that you are a F*****G cheat & that you are favouring the rich 4?"

 

Knowing full well that they would be shown up later for blatant cheating in front of a live TV audience might just help give them the incentive to make the correct decision in the first place in order to avoid looking truly, truly incompetent in that after match interview.

 

Refs are human & they have ego's too. If they call things correctly they could then look forward to the after match interview with relish knowing their decisions would be fully vindicated. ie

 

Interviewer:  "Well Anthony, Arsene claims you called both Villa pens incorrectly & that you were wrong to send off Koscielny, however our replays prove that you were vindicated in all 3 decisions & that it is just  pure sour grapes from Arsehole Whinger."

 

Ofcourse the FA would not allow this to happen though because they know it would expose the obvious corruption that is going on in the game & it would be naive of anyone to think otherwise IMO.

 

They did this last season in Swedens second highest hockey league and I think that worked very well. It was always interesting to hear what the ref had to say, and even led to some instances of the ref in question admitting getting calls wrong. I for one would welcome that. 

[Marka Ragnos]

 

I see exactly what you're saying, and you're right. But "corruption" to me implies a very deliberate, cunning effort, and it's hard for me to see the motivation in Friend's case. Wouldn't such corruption be possibly a criminal offence, too? What's in it for him? To me, it seems more like a kind of reckless cowardice than deliberate, cunning effort to damage certain sides. In any case, he sucks. He's not up to PL standards.

Note that I have never once used the term corruption and I am not implying criminality. All we have presently is a growing body of work attributed to him favouring our opposition. Even if it is a subconscious thing on his part the net result is the same. He does not give Aston Villa Football Club a fair crack of the whip when he is the referee. That is enough for us to request he not referee our games. I'm not suggesting payments or that he has a season ticket with the bluenoses. I'll use the more umbrella term of bias which is inclusive of all manner of innocent aswell as not-so-innocent motivations. But if AVFC are getting f**ked over by him on a consistent basis then he needs to stop reffing our games. Simple as that. It's up to the powers-that-be to figure out the reasons why.

 

 

Point taken. Didn't mean to put words into your mouth. You never said "corruption."

 

I really like what you're saying there, and I can go along with it.

 

Here's my big question: how many Villa fans (or lovers of the game, ie, neutrals) will actually bother to complain to the FA? I really believe they will listen if enough fans make a fuss, but I sometimes wonder whether the anger gets misplaced or vented -- then forgotten. As I said, the FA makes it pretty simple to complain.

 

There's also the IFO, of course. Again, pretty handy email form available, but useless if no one uses!

Edited August 22, 2013 by Shifted To Neutral

[BOF]

I imagine only an official complaint by the club would be listened to seriously.

[Marka Ragnos]

 

Referee's should be interviewed immediately after the game just like the players & managers & asked to give account of their major cock ups.

 

 

They did this last season in Swedens second highest hockey league and I think that worked very well. It was always interesting to hear what the ref had to say, and even led to some instances of the ref in question admitting getting calls wrong. I for one would welcome that. 

 

Nope. Wouldn't work. Simply put, it would be "bad optics" for the FA. I would make rules seem overly attached to personalities rather than principles. Again, would lead to some pretty ugly optics.

 

Imagine if judges gave in-depth personal interviews about their feelings and failings immediately after court rulings. The integrity of the whole justice system would seem to rest on subjective flailings in the dark rather than hard, formidable principles.

I imagine only an official complaint by the club would be listened to seriously.

 

You underestimate yourself! 

[BOF]

I happen to agree that interviewing referees directly afterwards would not be a positive move, as much as us as fans would love to see them squirm. I would however like to see them wired for sound in the way rugby union referees are. That might serve the same purpose without the accusatory/confrontational aspect of an interview.

[BOF]

You underestimate yourself! 

Perhaps, although I'd say I have no faith in the system.

[Marka Ragnos]

 

You underestimate yourself! 

Perhaps, although I'd say I have no faith in the system.

 

 

Understandable. I am a fairly newly active supporter obviously, and I don't know what it's like to go through year in and year out seeing bad decisions hurt your club. I have the optimism (and perhaps foolishness) of someone just out of diapers in terms of fandom.  Still, from my perspective, it seems fairly clear that the FA has not done a good enough job. If fans and superfans have no faith in the system, the FA is failing at something, perhaps a lot.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Shifted To Neutral

[daft]

I happen to agree that interviewing referees directly afterwards would not be a positive move, as much as us as fans would love to see them squirm. I would however like to see them wired for sound in the way rugby union referees are. That might serve the same purpose without the accusatory/confrontational aspect of an interview.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. The reason it worked here was because the interviews were pretty relaxed in the sense that the interviewers didn't really go after the refs aggressively. So there was a lot of respect between both parts even though they did bring up controversial situations and showed replays for comments. But I think the PL is too big of a machine for that to work.

[daft]

 

 

You underestimate yourself! 

Perhaps, although I'd say I have no faith in the system.

 

 

Understandable. I am a fairly newly active supporter obviously, and I don't know what it's like to go through year in and year out seeing bad decisions hurt your club. I have the optimism (and perhaps foolishness) of someone just out of diapers in terms of fandom.  Still, from my perspective, it seems fairly clear that the FA has not done a good enough job. If fans and superfans have no faith in the system, the FA is failing at something, perhaps a lot.

 

 

The main issue is that the system is upheld by people, and people make mistakes and have biases. Making it all fool proof is impossible. 

[villa-revolution]

The Premier League is corrupt. It's the richest league in the world with many rich clubs run by billionaires, some that have dubiously gained their wealth illegally to put it mildly.

 

Some may not like it but where there is money there is corruption. Money talks & buys influence within the corridors of power.

 

Cowardice is just a euphemism of corruption.

 

We were completely cheated out of it last night & nobody anywhere will convince me otherwise.

 

Fiend should be struck off completely for his fiendish decisions as he is either a blatant cheat or is making a mockery of professional refereeing.

 

If the FA don't depose or demote him they are simply just endorsing this.

 

They are simply corrupt.

[HalfTimePost]

referees for both our games have been awful. We arguably would have won that game last night had the decisions gone our way.

 

In fact no, not 'gone our way', had they been correctly officiated when it was so obviously clear what decision was right in real-time, without replays and slow-mo. We'd have won 2-1 had Ivanovic been sent off and the penalty given.

 

Arsenal ref was poor too, but to both us and to Arsenal, can see why they feel aggreived about Vlaar but similarly, Luna was incorrectly booked, Szczesny should've been off etc

[mikeyp102]

I actually think the current standard of refereeing is really poor for all teams. There is a serious lack of consistency and commen sense from them all.

[villa4europe]

I imagine only an official complaint by the club would be listened to seriously.

 

you'll never guess what the mail are reporting!

[danceoftheshamen]

Some great debating going on here and the eloquence you display in your posts is very enjoyable neutral. I do disagree however as i have seen more than enough "evidence" over many seasons to be as sure as one can realistically be that there is something suspect going on at the higher levels of the game. I include Fifa in that too.

 

It is of course difficult to prove such things by the sheer nature of the fact that it is so so easy to brush things off as "Pressure from home fans" or "Cowardice" or "He didn't see it clearly" etc etc. These are the age old excuses we have been fed as it is very difficult to prove otherwise of course. When you dig a little deeper however you start to see patterns emerging.. The same officials getting it wrong over and over again and yet they are very often the same ones who get given the key fixtures involving those clubs especially it seems for really key fixtures which is rather odd don't you think?

 

A certain Phil Dowd was case in point in a recent cup final which has been mentioned already in this thread of course.. Again it was a disgrace what happened that day too and i simply can't buy the argument that he must be a weak ref i mean if thats the case why oh why would he be given a game of such magnitude?

 

I can understand any referee getting one decision wrong occasionally but repeatedly? in one game? all against the same team? with really blatant incidents a five year old could call?

[ForeroGabe]

Refs seem to favor the top 4 teams. I'm still furious at what happened yesterday as we got robbed a point if not a win. The ivanovic elbow can be explained by the ref as he might have had a different angle but the John terry handball is Inexcuseable. These refs are supposed to be professional but week in and week out they prove they are just utter crap.

[Ponky]

I was going to suggest using a DRS system like they currently use in the cricket but that's bloody corrupt too!

[Seat68]

I read a few refs forums, they are quite interesting as they give an official perspective away from the passion supporters feel, and they are scratching their heads at Kevin Friends decisions a little.