Transfer Speculation (Summer 2013)

[Morpheus]

 

Excuse me, what?

 

I'm wrong because you say i am.

 

I'm entitled to an opinion am i not and whether your a moderator or not it doesn't give you the right to tell me to stop posting my opinion unless its in breach of site rules which it certainly is not!

Of course you're entitled to an opinion. No-one has said your opinion is wrong. What you are wrong on is in describing people who disagree with you as having blind faith. You are continually misusing the term in an attempt to strengthen your own position by belittling theirs. You've also now started to twist their words and change the meaning of their posts. I'd strongly suggest you stop mislabelling people and stop twisting their posts and stick to trying to make your point.

 

 

 

 

Did you back McLeish when under his tenure we were linked with Henry?

Stop with the blind faith thing. I tried explaining a few posts up why you're wrong to throw it around.

 

A bit of a contradiction there in the highlighted text BOF.

 

Secondly, i haven't tried to belittle anyone. There's a distinct difference in engaging someone on a point and belittling someone. If you don't know the difference then look at two post on poster comments directed at myself earlier in this debate.

 

I also haven't tried to label anyone either. There's a marked difference in commenting on an opinion which i did, to actually sticking a label on someone such at being part of a particular group.

[Foxy1]

Let's not forget we have signed 5 foreign players so far, surely we have to add to the English talent unless he has hope's for Gardner or Albrighton stepping up a gear now their fit. IMO we wont see a new signing for a while yet. Pre-season starts Monday and i can't wait to see how they fair in Germany, maybe this will be key to what he will or will not bring in before the window closes.

Think we will see 2 or 3 more but only when Bent, Hutton & Ireland go.

[HeyAnty]

Let's not forget we have signed 5 foreign players so far, surely we have to add to the English talent unless he has hope's for Gardner or Albrighton stepping up a gear now their fit. IMO we wont see a new signing for a while yet. Pre-season starts Monday and i can't wait to see how they fair in Germany, maybe this will be key to what he will or will not bring in before the window closes.

Did u not see the English u21s. There is very little talent.

[Wes]

No idea how good Kiyotake is...anyone?

 

He is a good attacking pivot. He's the kind of guy you look for the ball to get to if you're initating a counter attack as he has the skill to control and deliver it quicky and generally in stride of the main attacking threats. He had 5th best key passes in the Bundesliga. 4th most assists this year too.

 

He is a playmaker, not a finisher, although he is capable of scoring the odd goal. His best ability is his set piece delivery.

 

He offers hardly anything backwards though. He'd have to work on that side of the game in the premier league. His skill on the ball to escape tackles will only go so far - but who doesn't need to work on a specific area when joining the top English league.

 

It would be a gamble to see how he adjusts and trains under us. He could be almost hitting his limit or, considering he's only played outside of Japan for a year, he could be about to make another big stride forward in his ability.

 

At a guess I would guess his release clause, if as previously mentioned he is believed to have one, could be around £5-6m.

[AValon]

Like it when there speculation on a particular player from two or three sources.....thats when I tend to think there might be some substance to it. And not every links going to be a dead-end.

Would be nice if the Kiyotake rumours had legs.

[Brumstopdogs]

Kiyotake a good freekick?

[StanBalaban]

No idea how good Kiyotake is...anyone?

 

He is a good attacking pivot. He's the kind of guy you look for the ball to get to if you're initating a counter attack as he has the skill to control and deliver it quicky and generally in stride of the main attacking threats. He had 5th best key passes in the Bundesliga. 4th most assists this year too.

 

He is a playmaker, not a finisher, although he is capable of scoring the odd goal. His best ability is his set piece delivery.

 

He offers hardly anything backwards though. He'd have to work on that side of the game in the premier league. His skill on the ball to escape tackles will only go so far - but who doesn't need to work on a specific area when joining the top English league.

 

It would be a gamble to see how he adjusts and trains under us. He could be almost hitting his limit or, considering he's only played outside of Japan for a year, he could be about to make another big stride forward in his ability.

 

At a guess I would guess his release clause, if as previously mentioned he is believed to have one, could be around £5-6m.

Do you know what his status is like in his native Japan? Anywhere near the superstar status of Honda?

[Morpheus]

 

 

So lets get this straight. We should have unquestionable faith in Lambert because he's made several good signings yet ignore the bad ones he's made and that's my point.

Nobody said we should have unquestionable faith, but he certainly deserves at least a little bit of faith and people who are saying that they trust him with regards to signing players they don't know much about definitely aren't doing so out of "blind faith".

Its more about supporting the manager and players of our club, than it is having faith.

Whoever Lambert brings in, I'll back him and them until they give me reasoning not to.

 

 

 

 

The comment i engaged the poster on was 'if Lambert wants him then ill back him.'

Yes, because of what Lambert has proven to date in the transfer market. Not. blind. faith.

 

I certainly don't subscribe to the view that just because our manager wants a player that we should automatically back him on that. To me doing so is showing blind faith in the manager.

Again, no, it shows faith in him. Not blind faith, because we've seen how he operates and it has given us confidence that he knows what he's doing. Continuing to say 'blind faith' just tells me you don't know what blind faith means.

 

As for putting words in other posters mouths and twisting what they say. Read the posters point of view again.

I'll spell it out for you. You chose to interpret what MtBV wrote as having "faith in the signings because they were cheap". What he actually said was we have faith in the signings because he has shown that "he makes a lot of good signings". The subsequent validation was that we also happen to be signing players who will not ruin the club financially if they don't work out, which is another reason to support the approach. It is not the only reason, nor is it the primary reason. That's how you twisted his words.

 

The first comment was the second highlighted text followed by the second comment which is also highlighted.

 

As i suspected the poster was basing his opinion on his allegiance to the club and manager as a supporter rather than talking an objective view on the player. That to me goes beyond just faith in the manager.

 

In respect of your other rebuttal on twisting the posters words that was not the intention at all and i stand by my original assumption.  

[NoelVilla]

We should sack Lambert and sign Downing and Barry. Not?

[samjp26]

Baffled that you're still going on about it but yes it does go beyond the manager or indeed the specific player.

I would rather get behind both as I stated previously as I support Aston Villa and in turn I support those who we employ. Unless, as I again stated, they give me reason to want them out or even not want them here for other reasons (McLeish being a shit manager, Jermaine Jeans being injured a lot etc).

Even with those who I do know of and am unsure of, I still would support them and want them to succeed as in turn it would lead to Villa succeeding.

[Wes]

Do you know what his status is like in his native Japan? Anywhere near the superstar status of Honda?

 

No idea.

[samjp26]

Do you know what his status is like in his native Japan? Anywhere near the superstar status of Honda?

No idea.

Would doubt it as Honda has been on the scene for years, if he's highly rated I'd assume Japanese media would report something if we were going to get him?

[StanBalaban]

@Morpheus - Just my 2 cents on this - Those that are saying 'if Lambert wants him then I'll back him' and such like aren't saying that out of blind faith as PL is our manager. They are saying it based on the level of research that has been revealed Paul Lambert and his team did on Ashley Westwood before purchasing him.

One would assume that similar levels of due diligence would be done on all targets, so by saying 'if Lambert wants him' they're effectively saying 'if Lambert and his team have a 30 page dossier on a player revealing his positives, weaknesses, value to the the team, attitude, attributes and areas of improvement as judged by professional football scouts and they have come to the conclusion that this certain player will make PL's job of making the Villa a winning team a little bit easier', then I'm thinking there's obviously a good reason to back the manager's decision to bid for that player.

It's taking comfort in knowing that they've looked into that player far more than any of us ever have or could (with the exception of Wes of course).

[Jonoridge91]

 

Do you know what his status is like in his native Japan? Anywhere near the superstar status of Honda?

 

 

I went over there last year and he's about as big as Kagawa was last year. Can't say about his status now, it's probably increased with his performances in Europe but Kagawa most likely dwarfs him now. Neither touch Honda though.

So to ultimately answer you, he's well-known but isn't a megastar.

[villa-revolution]

@Morpheus - Just my 2 cents on this - Those that are saying 'if Lambert wants him then I'll back him' and such like aren't saying that out of blind faith as PL is our manager. They are saying it based on the level of research that has been revealed Paul Lambert and his team did on Ashley Westwood before purchasing him.

One would assume that similar levels of due diligence would be done on all targets, so by saying 'if Lambert wants him' they're effectively saying 'if Lambert and his team have a 30 page dossier on a player revealing his positives, weaknesses, value to the the team, attitude, attributes and areas of improvement as judged by professional football scouts and they have come to the conclusion that this certain player will make PL's job of making the Villa a winning team a little bit easier', then I'm thinking there's obviously a good reason to back the manager's decision to bid for that player.

It's taking comfort in knowing that they've looked into that player far more than any of us ever have or could (with the exception of Wes of course).

 

I bet Wes is the author of that 30 page dossier you refer to StanBalaban. The Rules are simple - If Lambo wants him & Wes wants him, we want him :)

Edited June 27, 2013 by villa-revolution

[mikeyp102]

@Morpheus - Just my 2 cents on this - Those that are saying 'if Lambert wants him then I'll back him' and such like aren't saying that out of blind faith as PL is our manager. They are saying it based on the level of research that has been revealed Paul Lambert and his team did on Ashley Westwood before purchasing him.

One would assume that similar levels of due diligence would be done on all targets, so by saying 'if Lambert wants him' they're effectively saying 'if Lambert and his team have a 30 page dossier on a player revealing his positives, weaknesses, value to the the team, attitude, attributes and areas of improvement as judged by professional football scouts and they have come to the conclusion that this certain player will make PL's job of making the Villa a winning team a little bit easier', then I'm thinking there's obviously a good reason to back the manager's decision to bid for that player.

It's taking comfort in knowing that they've looked into that player far more than any of us ever have or could (with the exception of Wes of course).

I bet Wes is the author of that 30 page dossier you refer to GreatNoel. The Rules are simple - If Lambo wants him & Wes wants him, we want him :)

If Wes wants him, Lambert listens!!

[Wes]

I've talked about so many players if Lambert listened to me we'd end up having to play 2-2-5-1!

 

I just like learning about teams and players from other leagues. I don't consider myself any kind of authority at all. Really, not in the slightest. That's why I aggregate from a lot of other people's opinions a lot, particularly from fans from the player's respective leagues, as well as relying on my own knowledge.

 

As for Kiyotake, sure I like him, he'd probably be the most gifted on the ball player we have in the club if he joined. I would be very concerned about how well he adapts to living in the country though. We don't really have another player like him in the team, maybe N'Zogbia, which makes me worry that if he ever had to leave the lineup we would have to change how we play quite dramatically. I think we'd be even more deadly on the counter though.

[villa-revolution]

I've talked about so many players if Lambert listened to me we'd end up having to play 2-2-5-1!

 

I just like learning about teams and players from other leagues. I don't consider myself any kind of authority at all. Really, not in the slightest. That's why I aggregate from a lot of other people's opinions a lot, particularly from fans from the player's respective leagues, as well as relying on my own knowledge.

 

As for Kiyotake, sure I like him, he'd probably be the most gifted on the ball player we have in the club if he joined. I would be very concerned about how well he adapts to living in the country though. We don't really have another player like him in the team, maybe N'Zogbia, which makes me worry that if he ever had to leave the lineup we would have to change how we play quite dramatically. I think we'd be even more deadly on the counter though.

 

Wes? I still reckon you wrote that dossier   The proof will be when we start playing 2-2-5-1 next season

 

Thanks for posting your in depth knowledge here for everyone to share.

[Gompedyret]

Seems very direct, going for the end product. Tekkers would have a ball playing with this fella! Incidently the uploader of this video labels him "the Japanese Iniesta". Comments at the youtube site are very favorable as well. Perhaps Hiroshi Kiyotake is everything we hoped Bannan would be?

 

[Phumfeinz]

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