jim Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 God I wish we could go back to the halcyon days of Doug's last ten years of ownership. League cup wins, average 8th place finish and no debt. I hope we don't go back to those dark days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 God I wish we could go back to the halcyon days of Doug's last ten years of ownership. League cup wins, average 8th place finish and no debt. I hope we don't go back to those dark days! Is our average league position much different from those times and these times, if you want to look at it like that? Is a solitary league cup win worth pining over? Is it bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 God I wish we could go back to the halcyon days of Doug's last ten years of ownership. League cup wins, average 8th place finish and no debt. I hope we don't go back to those dark days! Is our average league position much different from those times and these times, if you want to look at it like that? Is a solitary league cup win worth pining over? Is it bollocks. In the rush to condemn Lerner for the last 4 years people seem to forget the first 4!! I know it's unusual for us to have consecutive low finishes but I bet the win raio and the average finishing positions are roughly the same for both. Hopefully this new CEO being touted is someone to get us on the front foot again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 God I wish we could go back to the halcyon days of Doug's last ten years of ownership. League cup wins, average 8th place finish and no debt. I hope we don't go back to those dark days! Is our average league position much different from those times and these times, if you want to look at it like that? Is a solitary league cup win worth pining over? Is it bollocks. 11th under the current regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 God I wish we could go back to the halcyon days of Doug's last ten years of ownership. League cup wins, average 8th place finish and no debt. I hope we don't go back to those dark days! Sorry - but we DID NOT have no debt - we were mostly in debt but still didn't stop him taking bonus after bonus every AGM by claiming debt had gone down a little. Wish people would not re-write history. Granted we did win a couple of cups and finished average 8th BUT we ALSO got relegated on more than 1 occassion with HIM in charge - but don't let some facts get in the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Posted August 7, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2014 People really need to get away from thinking or saying that because people are saying Lerner is worse than Ellis that means people are saying Ellis was good. It is not Ellis was shit Lerner is shitter 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 People really need to get away from thinking or saying that because people are saying Lerner is worse than Ellis that means people are saying Ellis was good. It is not Ellis was shit Lerner is shitter Richard mate - I am all for the criticism of Lerner and Ellis but when a comment is made that is totally inaccurate I feel I have to respond. Lerner (and Ellis) have done good things and both Lerner (and Ellis) have done bad things - but when a comment is made that is false (i.e no debt under Ellis) then I feel it has to be stated that it is a falsehood and that maybe people are re-writing history. I'll be glad to see the back of Lerner too as we all hoped he would be the one to take us forward - hindsight proves it not to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Naz mate my post wasnt aimed at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 People really need to get away from thinking or saying that because people are saying Lerner is worse than Ellis that means people are saying Ellis was good. It is not Ellis was shit Lerner is shitter Richard mate - I am all for the criticism of Lerner and Ellis but when a comment is made that is totally inaccurate I feel I have to respond. Lerner (and Ellis) have done good things and both Lerner (and Ellis) have done bad things - but when a comment is made that is false (i.e no debt under Ellis) then I feel it has to be stated that it is a falsehood and that maybe people are re-writing history. I'll be glad to see the back of Lerner too as we all hoped he would be the one to take us forward - hindsight proves it not to be. Can we just give them an equal overall relative rate of shiteness? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 If you want to debate Lerner / Ellis then you must first decide how you deal with Lerner. There has been a very clear change in direction from Lerner over the past few years, the financial governance of the club is almost unrecognisable from the first few years under O'Neill. The Lerner of the first few years may aswell be a completely separate entity, and as such you must consider Lerner based upon his current running of the club. Unfortunately, it is a straight up race between new ownership and relegation at the moment, either one of those is sure to happen within the next 24 months. There is very little you can say to defend Lerner without referring back to the time when he did have an interest in the club, an interest that has long since disappeared. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Naz mate my post wasnt aimed at you. No probs Richard - I'm sure it wasn't. Sometimes the written word on the internet looks like it is! Anyway - the sooner we can move on from this mess we are in (and I am sure we will) the better. I just want to go to Villa Park and wtach my team (whether I enjoy it is another matter)!. Pity as I am going to miss the first two home games for the first time in 40 odd years. I am in Turkey for 3 weeks (promoted at work so there to work and visit family)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted August 7, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2014 I still can't fathom how a man who took us into the third tier of English football and had the European champions relegated within five years.; and, who, owned the club for over 30 years, but only delivered two league cups; who didn't take us on that extra step when it was SO much easier (i.e. the days when newly promoted clubs could come up and challenge/win the league) is not shitter than Lerner!? In Ellis' first 7-8 year spell, which is around the same number of years Lerner has owned us, we spent most of that time in division two/three. And our relegation to division three was overseen by him. Nothing Lerner has done is any worse than the inflictions Ellis caused to the club. We could be as big as United/Liverpool if it wasn't for Ellis. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted August 7, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted August 7, 2014 Those who claim Lerner is worse than Ellis either have short memories or like to practice revisionism. Lerner: - Had plans, lost interest, wants out - never to return. - Looking to break even (or even a minor loss) when selling the club having put in his own money - Broke up or sold off a decent side to cover costs and his own mistakes with an aim to run the club as a business within it's means - Nearly got us relegated - Ownership lasted 8(ish) years - Got a tattoo of Villa Ellis: - Had plans, was forced out... then came back for more. - Looking to balance the books when selling, despite making millions out of the club. - Broke up or sold off a European Cup and Championship winning side - seemingly out of spite. - Got us relegated. Twice. - Ownership lasted 32 years - Got his name tattooed on Villa Park stadium 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The biggest difference for me between Lerner and Ellis is Lerner gambled and messed it up whereas Ellis never had the balls to go for it when he had numerous chances and would have cost a lot less. Absence makes the heart go fonder but record books don't lie. Anyway Lerner is still here and still has a chance to make sure he's better than Ellis!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 7, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2014 Those who claim Lerner is worse than Ellis either have short memories or like to practice revisionism. I keep seeing this but I'm not sure I've actually seen anyone say that they think that Lerner is worse than Ellis. Some think he will leave the club in a worse state than when he inherited. Myself included. Some think he is no better than Ellis for a variety of reasons. But I don't recall anyone saying he is worse than Ellis, so I'm not quite sure why people keep making accusations of revisionism or feeling the need to state Lerner isn't worse because nobody seems to be saying otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 The whole debate is a bit of a 'prettiest poo in the toilet' contest. There's no real benefit in comparing the 2, but as Trent says, people are quite entitled to believe that Lerner has left us in a worse state than he found us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Trent to be fair Ive said above your post that Lerner is shiter than ellis and I believe it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 So the new CEO rumour was yet another false dawn ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 7, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2014 Trent to be fair Ive said above your post that Lerner is shiter than ellis and I believe it Must have missed that, I think you are wrong but I'm not going to get into which is the worst debate as it will only depress me that my entire life as a Villa fan has been under the stewardship of these arse clowns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Left us as he found us then? We are further away from 4th than ever before, back then we could still compete and had a good team of players. If only we had the likes of Bouma and Mellberg now! A hell of a lot of that is to do with FFP though - there's no chance of getting into that elusive group without ridiculous investment and ability to swallow massive fines. It is now a truly closed shop and will be until the change the rules to actually make things fair. It's the reason we are seemingly struggling to find a buyer - what's the point of owning us? And because of Lerner we are effected more by FFP and he's made it much harder for us to be competitive again. You don't blame him for that? We're in a much worse state than when he got us and with no sale in sight I think that will continue to get worse. I don't really care if he might not be as bad as Ellis, its irrelevant to the mess he's made of being the owner of Aston Villa and the state we will finally be in once he does leave us. I think he's caused massive long term issues, we're looking at our fourth consecutive bottom half finish and until he leaves that's exactly where we will continue to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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