KennyPowers Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Whats the story with the fair play rules? Are they still coming in to play and surly there will be a few prem clubs affected Good question. Every few months I read a story that says X club is in blatant contravention of the rules and is in danger of being banned from European competition but nothing actually seems to happen. Last club I read about was PSG. My impression is FFP all nonsense. Maybe someone who has studied it can explain how they're all getting round it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Whats the story with the fair play rules? Are they still coming in to play and surly there will be a few prem clubs affected Good question. Every few months I read a story that says X club is in blatant contravention of the rules and is in danger of being banned from European competition but nothing actually seems to happen. Last club I read about was PSG. My impression is FFP all nonsense. Maybe someone who has studied it can explain how they're all getting round it. What I have heard - is that should a club legally challenge FFP - the club would probably win - whilst I am not a legal expert this would make sense - if somebody wants to invest money into what is effectivley a business - any legislation preventing this would IMO be against 'restrictive trading' practices..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's always going to be easy to find ways around FFP. If you are a member of the Qatari royal family owning PSG you can just get your brother to sponsor the club for however much you need to show you are not losing too much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Just read a list of the 50 best managers in Europe( highlighting their achievements at different clubs)... with captions from eminent people from within the game, other managers and players who they have worked with. .......not a mention of an owners name amongst them all. So if an owner isn't important I take it you had no issues with Doug. I had some issues,not no issues... But that did not stop us having some decent times, with Brian LIttle and Graham Taylor. Ps I didn't say an owner wasn't important, I just happen to think a manager is more important to success ON the field. Edited November 21, 2013 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Whats the story with the fair play rules? Are they still coming in to play and surly there will be a few prem clubs affected Good question. Every few months I read a story that says X club is in blatant contravention of the rules and is in danger of being banned from European competition but nothing actually seems to happen. Last club I read about was PSG. My impression is FFP all nonsense. Maybe someone who has studied it can explain how they're all getting round it. we're still in the first 3 year monitoring period - 2011/12 to 2013/14. You can have up to 45mil Euro loss during this period, and exclude wages for players signed before 2010. anyone not meeting the requirement will get sanctioned during the 2015/16 season. the next monitoring period gets a bit more strict, as it only allows a 30mil Euro loss, and you can't exclude wages of pre-2010 players. i doubt it will affect any Prem clubs, as its only for clubs in Europe. Man Utd and Liverpool have enough revenue, Arsenal don't spend much, Man City have signed massive sponsorship deals, Spurs sold Bale, Everton don't spend. Chelsea would be the most likely to fall foul of it if Mourinho goes on a major spending spree. There is also the Premier League FFP coming in, but thats a bit different (and more restrictive in some ways). Edited November 21, 2013 by ender4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I still feel , prior to the austerity programme imposed.... We had a better chance of succeeding in terms of funding than we did under Doug Ellis. That opportunity seems for the present...lost. The managers under Doug's stewardship had in my opinion a tougher task of dealing with the funds available to them and in some cases made a pretty good fist of it. Chelsea and Man City are obvious cases of which have made things worse for us ( and the rest) in recent times, that the managers under Doug did not have to deal with. I have made my comments as clear as I can and for sure Randy has made some howlers, but he did put up money in better shape and more co-operatively than Doug. I have never felt that the actions of the owner is irrelevant....I just fervently believe (and I think history supports me) that the competency of the manager is much more important. I guess the holy grail is a great manager & filthy rich owner, who is willing to support him almost unconditionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 To be fair at least Man U and Arsenal can justify their wage bills with the amount of revenue they pull in. Every football fan in the country should be livid with what Chelsea and Man City have done. Pissing away hundreds of millions of pounds away every year. Money that has been generated from the natural resources of foreign countries. Disgraceful really. The only good thing to say is well at least the country is raking in some extra tax revenue. As a football fan though it's a disgrace. Yeah that's the worst thing about current football, it's not the fact that certain teams can spend so much more, but the fact that they can waste so much more than others. We spent and wasted a shitload but are paying for it, whereas teams can spend a fortune on Wright-Phillips or Santa Cruz and it means nothing to them. We sort of had one chance and blew it. Do you know, as short as it is, that is one of the most apt posts, I've read on here. Well illustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Ps I didn't say an owner wasn't important, I just happen to think a manager is more important to success ON the field. The two go together though don't they. You won't have any sustained success without a good manager and either a wealthy owner or one wealthy enough and with the where with all to get income streams up to a level to sustain the spending levels required to provide a manger with the necessary funds to compete for honors. I guarantee one thing. No club will win the league that hasn't got one of the top 4 or 5 wage bills in the country no matter who the manager is. You can go one step further and say that despite the odd freak you won't find a club consistently finishing in the top 6 or 7 without a wage bill that will fall into the top third highest in the country. It has been that way for many years and will continue to be that way for many more. Edited November 21, 2013 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Whats the story with the fair play rules? Are they still coming in to play and surly there will be a few prem clubs affected Good question. Every few months I read a story that says X club is in blatant contravention of the rules and is in danger of being banned from European competition but nothing actually seems to happen. Last club I read about was PSG. My impression is FFP all nonsense. Maybe someone who has studied it can explain how they're all getting round it. we're still in the first 3 year monitoring period - 2011/12 to 2013/14. You can have up to 45mil Euro loss during this period, and exclude wages for players signed before 2010. anyone not meeting the requirement will get sanctioned during the 2015/16 season. the next monitoring period gets a bit more strict, as it only allows a 30mil Euro loss, and you can't exclude wages of pre-2010 players. i doubt it will affect any Prem clubs, as its only for clubs in Europe. Man Utd and Liverpool have enough revenue, Arsenal don't spend much, Man City have signed massive sponsorship deals, Spurs sold Bale, Everton don't spend. Chelsea would be the most likely to fall foul of it if Mourinho goes on a major spending spree. There is also the Premier League FFP coming in, but thats a bit different (and more restrictive in some ways). Thanks for that, makes it bit clearer. How did Malaga get banned from Europe for their mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Thanks for that, makes it bit clearer. How did Malaga get banned from Europe for their mess? That was a bit different, it wasn't due to the official FFP. They hadn't paid their outstanding bills, and Uefa had had enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ps I didn't say an owner wasn't important, I just happen to think a manager is more important to success ON the field. The two go together though don't they. You won't have any sustained success without a good manager and either a wealthy owner or one wealthy enough and with the where with all to get income streams up to a level to sustain the spending levels required to provide a manger with the necessary funds to compete for honors. Everton have done OK and same could be said for Spurs who have a wealthy owner but rarely use his funds. Swansea and Wigan won trophies last year and before that sha are hardly mega rich clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ps I didn't say an owner wasn't important, I just happen to think a manager is more important to success ON the field. The two go together though don't they. You won't have any sustained success without a good manager and either a wealthy owner or one wealthy enough and with the where with all to get income streams up to a level to sustain the spending levels required to provide a manger with the necessary funds to compete for honors. Everton have done OK and same could be said for Spurs who have a wealthy owner but rarely use his funds. Swansea and Wigan won trophies last year and before that sha are hardly mega rich clubs If you read the rest of my post I said that the team that wins the league will have one of the top 4/5 wage bills in the country. The clubs that consistently finish in the top 6/7 will have the top third highest wage bills in the country. As I said you will always get the odd freak who will break into the top 6/7 without having a wage bill that matches that position. However to sustain that level season after season clubs will need to have a wage bill that reflects it if they want to attract or retain the players that can consistently finish in the top third. As for stating that Wigan, Sha and Swansea have won a cup recently. Come on any club can win a cup. Bradford were within 90 mins of winning one last season. Cup wins are completely different to sustained success in the league which is proved by the fact two of the clubs you mentioned were relegated in the season they won those trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Champoins League is the Holy Grail as when you reach the group stages the revenues generated are huge which means more monies for wages essentially. We all know what happened to us in our pursuit of this and we are still suffering now to a certain extent. This year there appear to be up to 6 teams vying for the top four places (if you discount Everton and Southampton) which is as competitive as the league has been for years. Therefore the chances of us reaching Europe are very slim with only the FA Cup left. I wonder what Lerner's plan is going to be for the next few years? If he plans to sell I hope he is better at choosing a new owner than he has been at choosing managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 You're a word removed, Lerner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 You're a word removed, Lerner. Foolish. This man has kept us financially sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 You're a word removed, Lerner. Best post I've read for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) We need better players in many positions. Edited November 25, 2013 by dodgyknees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Midfield is so so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 dreadful ,im trying to think of a worse midfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendi Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 he not been to any games i think that show you he really cares about the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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