WallheathLions Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 But he is at this present time the only one who can fire these bewildering idiots !!! I say we can give him a second chance only if he reacts,don,t put down to malice what you can put down to stupidity. These idiots have duped him big time and hopefully he has woken up and smelt the coffee. This is his last chance saloon because if he does,nt act swiftly I will be at the front of the protest to suggest he leaves also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 For me he gets one more chance. I am prepared, provided that he gets rid of McLeish at the end of this season, to give him this chance based on the possibility that he has been grossly misinformed and misdirected by the people that he employs to run AVFC on a 'day to day' basis. I hope that he has learnt something positive from this grave error and is now 100% determined and committed to put it right and keep tighter control and a more watchful eye on what goes on at VP in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallheathLions Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 But his second chance only comes if he acts immediately the final whistle is blown at Carrow Road. Any delay will just not give the new manager time to react and assess his options. We have for awhile now let things drift and then paid the price for lagging behind at the new season beginning. How many transitional seasons have we had ?? I still feel think we have to replace Faulkner he is so inept. Randy just clean out the dead wood and employ people who understand the make up of football in England and especially a team like Aston Villa FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 29, 2012 Second chance? McLeish was his second chance after the first error that was Houllier. If and when he replaces McLeish that will be take 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Second chance? McLeish was his second chance after the first error that was Houllier. If and when he replaces McLeish that will be take 3. Based on the fact that it proved nigh on impossible to shift Doug Ellis, and he was only a major shareholder, it will be virtually impossible to force out Lerner as he owns the lot. So, given this fact, it is prudent to sit back, take stock and assess the situation. In my assessment, and I may be wrong, it is possible that Lerner has been poorly advised and supported by people that he thought knew what they were doing. Therefore, as long as he realises the error of his ways and corrects the situation, I think he should be given one more chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthEastVillan Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I'm just hoping that, when the inevitable inquest happens, people at the very top will also be judged as in my eyes they're just as culpable as McLeish. Here's to hoping Randy can see that Faulkner et al have made some terrible, terrible mistakes. I just worry that if the people advising our owner are still in place next season then we're doomed to repeat this atrocity of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I'm just hoping that, when the inevitable inquest happens, people at the very top will also be judged as in my eyes they're just as culpable as McLeish. Here's to hoping Randy can see that Faulkner et al have made some terrible, terrible mistakes. I just worry that if the people advising our owner are still in place next season then we're doomed to repeat this atrocity of a season. If there is any repetition of this seasons **** up managerial appointment and results/performance then the knives will be out for Lerner very early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 29, 2012 Second chance? McLeish was his second chance after the first error that was Houllier. If and when he replaces McLeish that will be take 3. Based on the fact that it proved nigh on impossible to shift Doug Ellis, and he was only a major shareholder, it will be virtually impossible to force out Lerner as he owns the lot. So, given this fact, it is prudent to sit back, take stock and assess the situation. In my assessment, and I may be wrong, it is possible that Lerner has been poorly advised and supported by people that he thought knew what they were doing. Therefore, as long as he realises the error of his ways and corrects the situation, I think he should be given one more chance. Which is all fair enough but it will still be his 3rd attempt at getting it right. Oh and there is in reality no real difference between Ellis being majority shareholder and Lerner being 100% owner in terms of the ease with which they could be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Lerner is here for the money, so no fans = no money - he is doing a pretty good job himself driving fans away and I am sure this appointment will be properly thought through and he is probably working on it now (too much Stella again?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAndLoyal Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Second chance? McLeish was his second chance after the first error that was Houllier. If and when he replaces McLeish that will be take 3. Based on the fact that it proved nigh on impossible to shift Doug Ellis, and he was only a major shareholder, it will be virtually impossible to force out Lerner as he owns the lot. So, given this fact, it is prudent to sit back, take stock and assess the situation. In my assessment, and I may be wrong, it is possible that Lerner has been poorly advised and supported by people that he thought knew what they were doing. Therefore, as long as he realises the error of his ways and corrects the situation, I think he should be given one more chance. And this is exactly one of the major problems. He, Lerner, thought it would be a great idea to employ a former credit card manager working in America to be our CEO. This, among many others things, shows that Lerner hasn't the faintest clue about how to run a football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Second chance? McLeish was his second chance after the first error that was Houllier. If and when he replaces McLeish that will be take 3. Based on the fact that it proved nigh on impossible to shift Doug Ellis, and he was only a major shareholder, it will be virtually impossible to force out Lerner as he owns the lot. So, given this fact, it is prudent to sit back, take stock and assess the situation. In my assessment, and I may be wrong, it is possible that Lerner has been poorly advised and supported by people that he thought knew what they were doing. Therefore, as long as he realises the error of his ways and corrects the situation, I think he should be given one more chance. And this is exactly one of the major problems. He, Lerner, thought it would be a great idea to employ a former credit card manager working in America to be our CEO. This, among many others things, shows that Lerner hasn't the faintest clue about how to run a football club. As I have previously stated, I am prepared to give him one more chance. However, in order for me to give him that chance he would have to convince me that he realised his mistakes and put in place corrective and preventive measures to ensure that they did not occur again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Stop your messing around. Better think of your future. Time you straighten right out,Creating problems in town. Randy, a message to you Randy. A message to you Randy. Oh, its a message to you Randy. Yeah, its a message to you Randy. its a message to you Randy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Lerner is here for the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If this has already been done i apologise but what about singing a slightly altered version of: "A message to you Rudy" by The Specials. We only have alter the lyrics slightly, Rudy - Randy and so on... Stop your messin' around Better think of our future Time you straightened right out Creatin' problems in town Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Stop your foolin' around Time you straightened right out Better think of our future Or else you'll wind up in jail Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Stop your messin' around Better think of our future Time you straightened right out Creatin' problems in town Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Stop your messin' around Better think of our future Time you straightened right out Creatin' problems in town Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy a message to you Randy. EDIT: Just seen KHV post the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 What Ellis did or didn't do is utterly irrelevant and is history.Interesting. Why ? Why is it irrelevant ? For years a lot of us complained about Ellis and the way he ran the club. We protested and chanted and complained because he was running the club badly, holding the club back, was a main blocker to the club achieving success or because some simply didn't like him. All was fair because we protested against the evil empire. I did too and believed, and still believe , it was the right thing to do. But why is that irrelevant? Why is it irrelevant, for example, to question the fan reaction to the two owners? On the one hand (Ellis) we had an owner who's decisions were holding the club back, and on the other we have an owner who's decisions (Lerner) are not allowing the club to progress, in fact they are now dragging the club backwards spectacularly. So surely it is fair game to look at the fan reaction to both and question the differences ? To askthe question "you criticised Ellis for some of the things Lerner is now doing worse" "He has to wise up on the footballing side of things" is also an interesting obvservation that, although from reading your post you have not made I take it is one you have some sympathy with. You see for someone to actually have to wise up on what is the business that Aston Villa is involved in, I find quite worrying. Even more worrying is that he does not employ the experts to help him with his lack of knowledge and that to me demonstrates a key problem with the man. To compare to our previous owner, and again I think comparisons are actually justified, Ellis didn't need to wise up on the footballing side of things, what he needed to wise up on was the financial side of things. So at least you would expect Lerner to have the advantage over Ellis on that front. Unfortunately he does not so I am struggling, and have been for a while now (almost three years actually) to see what improvemeent Lerner does give us over Ellis (hence the comparison). And so to be consistent as I criticised and wanted the removal of Ellis, so I should apply the same standards to Lerner. It is right to say "we wanted Ellis out because we wanted better, have we actually got that?" to review if you will. And to be honest you mention stuff like scarves and the holte pub but I am a simple man, we are a footballing club and all I really want is success on the pitch, the rest will follow. As I said when Ellis was in charge. I think it is dangerous to say that we should just ignore the Ellis years as they are irrelevant. To me that would smack of wanting to ignore something because to analyse it would be uncomfortable when looking at the reactions then to now. I think we should look at the Ellis years and ask have we actually achieved what we want, that is the relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 30, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 30, 2012 For years a lot of us complained about Ellis and the way he ran the club. We protested and chanted and complained because he was running the club badly, holding the club back, was a main blocker to the club achieving success or because some simply didn't like him. All was fair because we protested against the evil empire. I did too and believed, and still believe , it was the right thing to do. But why is that irrelevant? Why is it irrelevant, for example, to question the fan reaction to the two owners? On the one hand (Ellis) we had an owner who's decisions were holding the club back, and on the other we have an owner who's decisions (Lerner) are not allowing the club to progress, in fact they are now dragging the club backwards spectacularly. So surely it is fair game to look at the fan reaction to both and question the differences ? To askthe question "you criticised Ellis for some of the things Lerner is now doing worse" "He has to wise up on the footballing side of things" is also an interesting obvservation that, although from reading your post you have not made I take it is one you have some sympathy with. You see for someone to actually have to wise up on what is the business that Aston Villa is involved in, I find quite worrying. Even more worrying is that he does not employ the experts to help him with his lack of knowledge and that to me demonstrates a key problem with the man. To compare to our previous owner, and again I think comparisons are actually justified, Ellis didn't need to wise up on the footballing side of things, what he needed to wise up on was the financial side of things. So at least you would expect Lerner to have the advantage over Ellis on that front. Unfortunately he does not so I am struggling, and have been for a while now (almost three years actually) to see what improvemeent Lerner does give us over Ellis (hence the comparison). And so to be consistent as I criticised and wanted the removal of Ellis, so I should apply the same standards to Lerner. It is right to say "we wanted Ellis out because we wanted better, have we actually got that?" to review if you will. And to be honest you mention stuff like scarves and the holte pub but I am a simple man, we are a footballing club and all I really want is success on the pitch, the rest will follow. As I said when Ellis was in charge. I think it is dangerous to say that we should just ignore the Ellis years as they are irrelevant. To me that would smack of wanting to ignore something because to analyse it would be uncomfortable when looking at the reactions then to now. I think we should look at the Ellis years and ask have we actually achieved what we want, that is the relevance. In my opinions, I think it comes down to something very simple. Doug maybe had that football knowledge, or better people around him who could give it. He was canny to be fair to the old bugger, but he simply didn't have the thing that a modern Premier league club owner needs - the ability to put in £20m a season or more and just write it off. Doug was floundering, not because of what he knew, but because he couldn't afford to be an owner anymore - he still believed he could take a little profit and be lord of all he surveyed - he was wrong. I may be being a little kind to him, I think age took some of what he had away, but the simple fact of the matter is that he could no longer afford to sit at the table. Randy can - the fact that he's never played before means that people are fleecing him left, right and centre and we can only hope that he's learned something from the experience - but right now, I think he merits another chance, because he still just about has the only thing that actually really matters in the game of being an owner - the money to have another go. Doug could have been the greatest football administrating genius in the world, but under him we'd have gone down by now and we'd not have a great deal of hope of any kind of a future - with Randy, we have to hope that the novice finds a little luck or learns fast, but if he does either, he's still got a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 What Ellis did or didn't do is utterly irrelevant and is history.Interesting. Why ? Why is it irrelevant ? For years a lot of us complained about Ellis and the way he ran the club. We protested and chanted and complained because he was running the club badly, holding the club back, was a main blocker to the club achieving success or because some simply didn't like him. All was fair because we protested against the evil empire. I did too and believed, and still believe , it was the right thing to do. But why is that irrelevant? Why is it irrelevant, for example, to question the fan reaction to the two owners? On the one hand (Ellis) we had an owner who's decisions were holding the club back, and on the other we have an owner who's decisions (Lerner) are not allowing the club to progress, in fact they are now dragging the club backwards spectacularly. So surely it is fair game to look at the fan reaction to both and question the differences ? To askthe question "you criticised Ellis for some of the things Lerner is now doing worse" "He has to wise up on the footballing side of things" is also an interesting obvservation that, although from reading your post you have not made I take it is one you have some sympathy with. You see for someone to actually have to wise up on what is the business that Aston Villa is involved in, I find quite worrying. Even more worrying is that he does not employ the experts to help him with his lack of knowledge and that to me demonstrates a key problem with the man. To compare to our previous owner, and again I think comparisons are actually justified, Ellis didn't need to wise up on the footballing side of things, what he needed to wise up on was the financial side of things. So at least you would expect Lerner to have the advantage over Ellis on that front. Unfortunately he does not so I am struggling, and have been for a while now (almost three years actually) to see what improvemeent Lerner does give us over Ellis (hence the comparison). And so to be consistent as I criticised and wanted the removal of Ellis, so I should apply the same standards to Lerner. It is right to say "we wanted Ellis out because we wanted better, have we actually got that?" to review if you will. And to be honest you mention stuff like scarves and the holte pub but I am a simple man, we are a footballing club and all I really want is success on the pitch, the rest will follow. As I said when Ellis was in charge. I think it is dangerous to say that we should just ignore the Ellis years as they are irrelevant. To me that would smack of wanting to ignore something because to analyse it would be uncomfortable when looking at the reactions then to now. I think we should look at the Ellis years and ask have we actually achieved what we want, that is the relevance. Whilst I wouldnt disagree with any of the points raised it is important to remember that Ellis had what? 30 odd years in charge, Lerners had 6 or so years, 3 of which were successful (at least on the surface) on and off the pitch. I still don't blame him persay, I think he's getting shite advice but he's chosen to surround himself with morons so that can't be excused so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_avfc Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 C'mon Randy DO IT http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands-news/2012/04/29/aston-villa-boss-alex-mcleish-faces-sack-by-end-of-season-66331-30862044/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAndLoyal Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 What Ellis did or didn't do is utterly irrelevant and is history.Interesting. Why ? Why is it irrelevant ? For years a lot of us complained about Ellis and the way he ran the club. We protested and chanted and complained because he was running the club badly, holding the club back, was a main blocker to the club achieving success or because some simply didn't like him. All was fair because we protested against the evil empire. I did too and believed, and still believe , it was the right thing to do. But why is that irrelevant? Why is it irrelevant, for example, to question the fan reaction to the two owners? On the one hand (Ellis) we had an owner who's decisions were holding the club back, and on the other we have an owner who's decisions (Lerner) are not allowing the club to progress, in fact they are now dragging the club backwards spectacularly. So surely it is fair game to look at the fan reaction to both and question the differences ? To askthe question "you criticised Ellis for some of the things Lerner is now doing worse" "He has to wise up on the footballing side of things" is also an interesting obvservation that, although from reading your post you have not made I take it is one you have some sympathy with. You see for someone to actually have to wise up on what is the business that Aston Villa is involved in, I find quite worrying. Even more worrying is that he does not employ the experts to help him with his lack of knowledge and that to me demonstrates a key problem with the man. To compare to our previous owner, and again I think comparisons are actually justified, Ellis didn't need to wise up on the footballing side of things, what he needed to wise up on was the financial side of things. So at least you would expect Lerner to have the advantage over Ellis on that front. Unfortunately he does not so I am struggling, and have been for a while now (almost three years actually) to see what improvemeent Lerner does give us over Ellis (hence the comparison). And so to be consistent as I criticised and wanted the removal of Ellis, so I should apply the same standards to Lerner. It is right to say "we wanted Ellis out because we wanted better, have we actually got that?" to review if you will. And to be honest you mention stuff like scarves and the holte pub but I am a simple man, we are a footballing club and all I really want is success on the pitch, the rest will follow. As I said when Ellis was in charge. I think it is dangerous to say that we should just ignore the Ellis years as they are irrelevant. To me that would smack of wanting to ignore something because to analyse it would be uncomfortable when looking at the reactions then to now. I think we should look at the Ellis years and ask have we actually achieved what we want, that is the relevance. Top post Richard. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islingtonclaret Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Just read that the Boggies are after Chris Houghton. Please take note Lerner & Falkner - if you want to poach a rivals manager, THAT'S the right time and person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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