The Randy Lerner thread

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Yeah, but come on, Risso: we achieved those finishes 13 years & onwards into Ellis's second spell after a disastrous first 'attempt' at running the club.

Randy has been here nowhere near as long and I doubt we'll end up in the third divison under him either.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[dont_do_it_doug.]

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

9th is a relegation battle?

As for Ellis, research the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

Or, to play your own game, tell me a period under Ellis where we finished in the top 6 three years running.

From 95/6 we finished in position 4, 5, 7, 6, 6, 8, 8, 16, 6, 10, 16. 8 out of 11 seasons in the top 8. On top of the two league cup wins. It went wrong at the end, just like it's gone wrong now under Lerner.

We only won one league cup during that period.

[avfc1982]

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

9th is a relegation battle?

As for Ellis, research the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

Or, to play your own game, tell me a period under Ellis where we finished in the top 6 three years running.

From 95/6 we finished in position 4, 5, 7, 6, 6, 8, 8, 16, 6, 10, 16. 8 out of 11 seasons in the top 8. On top of the two league cup wins. It went wrong at the end, just like it's gone wrong now under Lerner.

We only won one league cup during that period.

Only? I wouldn't mind one of the those right now. What's Lerner won so far?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Wasn't the point.

[sharkyvilla]

"Current dip in results"?

We've had nearly 4 seasons of relegation battles and diabolical football and you're referring to it as a "dip"!

Tell me, when did we have 4 consecutive seasons of shite under Ellis?

9th is a relegation battle?

As for Ellis, research the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

Or, to play your own game, tell me a period under Ellis where we finished in the top 6 three years running.

From 95/6 we finished in position 4, 5, 7, 6, 6, 8, 8, 16, 6, 10, 16. 8 out of 11 seasons in the top 8. On top of the two league cup wins. It went wrong at the end, just like it's gone wrong now under Lerner.

We only won one league cup during that period.

Only? I wouldn't mind one of the those right now. What's Lerner won so far?

We've been to Wembley once for a final and got cheated out of it, a Wembley semi and another semi final last year. 3 decent cup runs in about 7 years isn't that bad. Personally I don't see much point in the Ellis v Lerner argument, it has very little to do with anything.

[sharkyvilla]

I'm still amazed there's people who continue to defend him. Look at the last few years. Poor results and league finishes, loss in revenue, competition catching and overtaking us. And during all this the same group defending him and backing 'the plan' to spend what we can afford but failing to acknowledge that because of the owner that this now makes a top half finish a struggle.

I defend him because his managers have provided such poor value for his money, especially the first one who was a financial disaster and went on to do it to another club afterwards. I defend him because he just isn't rich enough to have continued to pump in so much money every year because he is only a dollar billionaire and £30m a season would bankrupt him in 20 years. I defend what he's done in the last 18 months because we've had to restructure and they've done a decent job of it whilst creating a mid-table team. But you know all this anyway.

[foreveryoung]

Use your heads guys. Football is completely different now, mainly about money. You cant compare football played under Doug to the football we have now.

[TRO]

....It started to go wrong from O'Leary

 

it was never really right, but I mean wrong,wrong.

Edited January 26, 2014 by TRO

[TRO]

Use your heads guys. Football is completely different now, mainly about money. You cant compare football played under Doug to the football we have now.

 

Mainly is true, but not completely.

 

Money has been an issue for years and years, even when Villa was accused of signing all the best players around the 1930's. Times change and things change, but principles tend to remain much the same from decade to decade and football is no exception.

 

Teams like Everton are exceptions, but we were close to them not so long ago and it isn't money ( exclusively)that has elevated them, its talent spotting....Newcastle much the same.

 

There have been many managers over the years defy the money arguement.... Brian Clough, Jose Mourinho(at Porto) our own Ron Saunders or Graham Taylor.....even Arsene Wenger has almost funded his own from sales.

 

As much as I recognise that money makes it much easier, I equally recognise that it can become a " cop out" of sorts....It can be a lazy managers way of camouflaging his inadequencies.

[Big_John_10]

Use your heads guys. Football is completely different now, mainly about money. You cant compare football played under Doug to the football we have now.

Its not just about comparing its showing how we've dropped under Lerner. On and off the field we've allowed our competition to catch and overtake us.

[Big_John_10]

I'm still amazed there's people who continue to defend him. Look at the last few years. Poor results and league finishes, loss in revenue, competition catching and overtaking us. And during all this the same group defending him and backing 'the plan' to spend what we can afford but failing to acknowledge that because of the owner that this now makes a top half finish a struggle.

I defend him because his managers have provided such poor value for his money, especially the first one who was a financial disaster and went on to do it to another club afterwards. I defend him because he just isn't rich enough to have continued to pump in so much money every year because he is only a dollar billionaire and £30m a season would bankrupt him in 20 years. I defend what he's done in the last 18 months because we've had to restructure and they've done a decent job of it whilst creating a mid-table team. But you know all this anyway.

Your first point is ridiculous. You defend him for employing poor managers? Your second point is also ridiculous. Who has asked Lerner to bankrupt himself? And the 3rd point is you defending us becoming a team whose challenge is to finish mid table. Again ridiculous. Edited January 26, 2014 by Big_John_10

[TRO]

 

 

I'm still amazed there's people who continue to defend him. Look at the last few years. Poor results and league finishes, loss in revenue, competition catching and overtaking us. And during all this the same group defending him and backing 'the plan' to spend what we can afford but failing to acknowledge that because of the owner that this now makes a top half finish a struggle.

I defend him because his managers have provided such poor value for his money, especially the first one who was a financial disaster and went on to do it to another club afterwards. I defend him because he just isn't rich enough to have continued to pump in so much money every year because he is only a dollar billionaire and £30m a season would bankrupt him in 20 years. I defend what he's done in the last 18 months because we've had to restructure and they've done a decent job of it whilst creating a mid-table team. But you know all this anyway.

Your first point is ridiculous. You defend him for employing poor managers? Your second point is also ridiculous. Who has asked Lerner to bankrupt himself? And the 3rd point is you defending us becoming a team whose challenge is to finish mid table. Again ridiculous.

 

 

for what its worth I think your argument is inaccurate.

 

This is the way I see it :

 

Firstly, he has appointed managers that as far as the team is concerned have added little value to improving our position....and as far as strengthening the team THEIR choices have proved to be poor.

 

Randy Lerner in my view has a limited knowledge of football, He had a CEO who also has a skill base that lends it to the financial side of the club.....so he trusted his managers to guide the club to better things through their team building....He seemed to have a great relationship with MON at one time, until he realised we was paying too much for what we was getting from them and when he addressed it.....POP

 

We had many years of meetings and marchs against HDE to remove him ...One of the main accusations was interfering in team affairs and not leaving the managers free to get on with it.

 

Randy Lerner has done exactly the opposite to what the majority of fans criticised HDE for doing....He is now being castigated for giving managers too much rope. It is starting to sound like I'm buggered if I do and buggered if I don't.

 

I perfectly understand your frustration, but in his camp, his people will think HE has been let down.

 

To a certain degree Randy Lerner has funded his managers until recently, I accept him being naive in letting his managers squander his money, but he also has to give them a chance to prove or disprove themselves.In O'Neills case, he give him too long,before realising the state of play,that can equally be leveled at the CEO, but to be fair to O'Neill he probably camouflaged the problem by acheiving some kind of success, paradoxically speaking.

 

I have always said on here it is more than one person that has contributed to our demise. I accept Randy Lerner has ultimate say, the responsibilty has to be ultimately his, hence he is underwriting his cock-ups, I assume.

 

There are many examples over the years of Football Managers creating  the demise of a football club, but the owners trust in these people to do the opposite, thats what they recruit them for.....If only it was all that simple.

 

In my humble view, the biggest set back for our football club in recent times, has been signing too many players that have not worked out for us.....in a direct sense, that is not Randy Lerners fault.

 

Finally, unless I am misreading your claim....you seem to be suggesting that a shooting in Peckham, is the Prime ministers fault.

Edited January 26, 2014 by TRO

[NIVillan]

The bigging up of the O'Neil years always makes me smile.  No higher than 6th and didn't win a trophy.

[Papillon]

The bigging up of the O'Neil years always makes me smile.  No higher than 6th and didn't win a trophy.

 

At least have the decency to spell his name correctly.

 

Martin O'Neill gave us one hell of a ride, we challenged (as far as possible) the teams competing for 4th and we scored a lot of goals.

 

To be even close to winning anything you need the level of investment he got - and then some.

 

It's pretty easy to criticize in retrospect, few people were complaining when we scored above 70 goals in the league one year!

 

In his prime MON was lightyears ahead of Lambert, a level the current guy probably never will reach IMO.

[thetrees]

 

 

In his prime MON was lightyears ahead of Lambert, a level the current guy probably never will reach IMO.

 

 

Appropriate.

 

He had an ego to match Buzz Lightyear, although I suspect that Buzz Lightyear would make a better football manager.

Edited January 26, 2014 by thetrees

[bobzy]

If Lambert was given the kind of money O'Neill was, this thread wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be struggling in the same shape we are.

 

I still enjoy that people basically want an oil merchant to come in and pump hundreds of millions into the club yet again.  We've been there, it went wrong, we're now paying for it.  Why the hell would you want to repeat this?

[NoelVilla]

He was brilliant when he signed NRC and Heskey. The bigging up of the O'Neil years always makes me smile.

[GENTLEMAN]

It is far too soon to write off Lambert.

[NIVillan]

 

The bigging up of the O'Neil years always makes me smile.  No higher than 6th and didn't win a trophy.

 

At least have the decency to spell his name correctly.

 

Martin O'Neill gave us one hell of a ride, we challenged (as far as possible) the teams competing for 4th and we scored a lot of goals.

 

To be even close to winning anything you need the level of investment he got - and then some.

 

It's pretty easy to criticize in retrospect, few people were complaining when we scored above 70 goals in the league one year!

 

In his prime MON was lightyears ahead of Lambert, a level the current guy probably never will reach IMO.

 

 

 

Oh dear I have lost all decency cause I mistyped and left one l off.

 

Glad you were not my teacher for spelling tests

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

To be honest with you I have to agree with those above, I genuinely feel if Lambert had the type of money MON was given we would have gotten champions league. We wouldnt have gone seasons without full backs and signed average dross on inflated salaries. Probably wouldnt have bought Emile Heskey either when we were right in the fight for the Champs league! (And im not necessarily even Lamberts biggest fan!)

Edited January 26, 2014 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN