Manager Paul Lambert

[avfc1982]

I don't really know how people can say we're in decline. We were in near constant decline from early 2010 to the beginning of this year but since then things have generally been getting better. If we finish higher this season than we did last season (and I think we will) then that'll be the second year in a row we've finished higher than the previous season. We may not be rapidly improving but we're definitely not in decline.

Where the hell have you been for the last 3 or 4 years? Under O'Neill we were looking for a top 4 finish, and now we're happy just to survive season in season out. We've turned Into Small Heath, and one of these days we're gonna find ourselves in the Championship along side them.

If that isn't decline I don't know what is.

[LondonLax]

 

I don't really know how people can say we're in decline. We were in near constant decline from early 2010 to the beginning of this year but since then things have generally been getting better. If we finish higher this season than we did last season (and I think we will) then that'll be the second year in a row we've finished higher than the previous season. We may not be rapidly improving but we're definitely not in decline.

Where the hell have you been for the last 3 or 4 years? Under O'Neill we were looking for a top 4 finish, and now we're happy just to survive season in season out. We've turned Into Small Heath, and one of these days we're gonna find ourselves in the Championship along side them.

If that isn't decline I don't know what is.

 

 

Getting better year on year is the opposite of decline. 

 

We were in decline once O'Neil left and now we are on the long path to recovery. 

[Mantis]

 

I don't really know how people can say we're in decline. We were in near constant decline from early 2010 to the beginning of this year but since then things have generally been getting better. If we finish higher this season than we did last season (and I think we will) then that'll be the second year in a row we've finished higher than the previous season. We may not be rapidly improving but we're definitely not in decline.

Where the hell have you been for the last 3 or 4 years? Under O'Neill we were looking for a top 4 finish, and now we're happy just to survive season in season out. We've turned Into Small Heath, and one of these days we're gonna find ourselves in the Championship along side them.

If that isn't decline I don't know what is.

 

I never disputed that there has been decline, just that we're not declining now.

 

I won't even dignify the SHA comparison with a proper answer.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Mantis

[markavfc40]

At the moment it is hard to know how to judge the first 10 games. I do however think that after our next 5 games against Cardiff, West Brom, Sunderland, Southampton and Fulham we will be in a much better position to judge if we are indeed progressing.

 

We will then have played 15 games. If we are making progress I'd expect us to take 10 points from the next 5 games which would put us on 21 points. If we take less than 8 points I think people would be justified in suggesting we have not made any progress and kicked on from the last third of last season where we showed a fair bit of promise.

[avfc1982]

I don't really know how people can say we're in decline. We were in near constant decline from early 2010 to the beginning of this year but since then things have generally been getting better. If we finish higher this season than we did last season (and I think we will) then that'll be the second year in a row we've finished higher than the previous season. We may not be rapidly improving but we're definitely not in decline.

Where the hell have you been for the last 3 or 4 years? Under O'Neill we were looking for a top 4 finish, and now we're happy just to survive season in season out. We've turned Into Small Heath, and one of these days we're gonna find ourselves in the Championship along side them.

If that isn't decline I don't know what is.

I never disputed that there has been decline, just that we're not declining now.

 

I won't even dignify the SHA comparison with a proper answer.

Well I doubt we'll ever get back to competing for a top 4 or even a top 6 position under Lerner again, so it's obvious he has lowered fans expectations. Imagine if Ellis had tried that stunt. He'd have been hung drawn and quartered. Now we're just happy to survive in the Premier League.

No pride in the club anymore, and there's certainly no ambition.

[Mantis]

 

 

 

I don't really know how people can say we're in decline. We were in near constant decline from early 2010 to the beginning of this year but since then things have generally been getting better. If we finish higher this season than we did last season (and I think we will) then that'll be the second year in a row we've finished higher than the previous season. We may not be rapidly improving but we're definitely not in decline.

Where the hell have you been for the last 3 or 4 years? Under O'Neill we were looking for a top 4 finish, and now we're happy just to survive season in season out. We've turned Into Small Heath, and one of these days we're gonna find ourselves in the Championship along side them.

If that isn't decline I don't know what is.

I never disputed that there has been decline, just that we're not declining now.

 

I won't even dignify the SHA comparison with a proper answer.

Well I doubt we'll ever get back to competing for a top 4 or even a top 6 position under Lerner again, so it's obvious he has lowered fans expectations. Imagine if Ellis had tried that stunt. He'd have been hung drawn and quartered. Now we're just happy to survive in the Premier League.

No pride in the club anymore, and there's certainly no ambition.

 

I think it's got to less to do with Randy and more to do with the nature of football today. We'll likely never be challenging for the top 4 again unless we get bought by some obscenely rich tycoon who's willing to pour hundreds of millions into the club.

 

People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today.

[danceoftheshamen]

Trying to be positive but our two most shocking performances have been Hull & West Ham away.. both of which we got a point from. For me what has happened is Weimann is clearly off the boil, Benteke has temporarily lost his eye for goal and we are being disrupted by a series of injuries to key players too. Coupled with that i do think opposing teams are fearful of us away from home so are closing up shop.... hence the dire games we are witnessing and 0-0 scorelines.

 

At home we have serious issues however as we are lacking the ability to play our way through packed rearguards...an issue which is now duplicating itself away from home as teams are sussing this and are genuinely fearful of our counter attacking abilities so holding back against us more meaning we keep having these dour games with few chances for either team.

 

I think this is highlighted by the fact we beat Man City, Arsenal and should have won at Chelsea too apart from the annual dodgy officials changing the course of the game as usual. The reason we have beaten these teams to me is clear.... They have gone pretty much all out to attack us and we have destroyed them on the counter. Other "lesser" teams have seen this and are fearful of it hence closing up shop until they go 1-0 up then they have us coz they can then counter us instead as we are so poor at attacking them other than on the counter.... simple!  Hence we are seeing dour games.

 

What the answer is however i don't know other than signing new players with the ability to solve this problem. 

Edited November 3, 2013 by danceoftheshamen

[Mantis]

That seems like a fair assessment to me. I still have hope that we can turn around our home form though as we actually created quite a few clear cut chances against Everton.

[danceoftheshamen]

I don't think we are far off i really don't, at home that is, against Spurs, Liverpool and Everton, all pretty decent teams it has to be said, they all played it cautiously and with our strikers being in form or fit we could have got points from all of those games. the sad thing is as soon as we go 0-1 down we struggle to score and get picked off. 

 

Against Liverpool we just couldn't quite find a way through and missed a couple of half chances

 

Against Spurs it was pretty even until they fluked the 1st goal..they had more play yes but chance for chance it was even until then.

 

Against Everton we should have won the game by the time they scored, again poor finishing by out of form/not quite fit strikers.

[markavfc40]

 

 

People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today.

 

 

Thats not really true is it. Since Randy came along in 2006 the only club that has burst onto the scene from nowhere has been Man City. Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool have been able to spend obscene amounts on fees and wages for years, Arsenal under Wenger have consistently gone about their business in the same way. Spurs have been fortunate enough to have someone like Levy who is very shrewd. 

 

We certainly have no divine right to be competing for a top 4 place. I do however think we should consistently be capable of competing for a top 6/7 finish and then you never know if you can get a bit of momentum behind you then you may just sneak a top 4 place. It is tough but as things stand we are a million miles away from it which is down to mismanagement from the owner.

 

I have been as guilty as others of blaming individual managers for our plight. However the realization for me came some time ago that our rapid decline has not been down to the managers. It has come from the top. From the parting of the ways with O'Neill due to no longer wanting to fund a top 4 push and cut costs it has been one disaster after another. Poor managerial choices. Houllier a known cheque book manager at a time you want to cut costs beggars belief but he even managed to trump that with McLeish. To compound that appointment he gave a poor manager a transfer budget of minus 20 mill and told him to slash wages. The only saving grace was that we didn't get relegated.

 

Lambert could I believe be a very good manager for us. I doubt we will find out under Lerner though as the backing he is being given isn't enough to see us compete any higher than lower to mid table. If Lerner stays one of two things will happen in the next two years in my opinion. Either Lambert will walk due to lack of ambition from those above or he will be sacked and made a scapegoat for the failings of the owner.

[Mantis]

 

 

 

People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today.

 

 

Thats not really true is it. Since Randy came along in 2006 the only club that has burst onto the scene from nowhere has been Man City. Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool have been able to spend obscene amounts on fees and wages for years, Arsenal under Wenger have consistently gone about their business in the same way. Spurs have been fortunate enough to have someone like Levy who is very shrewd.

 

Doesn't mean money hasn't become more important though. We were able to push for the top 4 and finish in the top 6 with plentiful but not obscene investment when Randy first arrived but now that would be nowhere near enough. Even clubs like Norwich, Cardiff and Southampton are spending big money these days. Even Southampton who are doing pretty well for themselves after all that money spent are unlikely to finish inside the top 7. It simply takes an even bigger level of spending these days.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Mantis

[romavillan]

 

 

 

I don't really know how people can say we're in decline. We were in near constant decline from early 2010 to the beginning of this year but since then things have generally been getting better. If we finish higher this season than we did last season (and I think we will) then that'll be the second year in a row we've finished higher than the previous season. We may not be rapidly improving but we're definitely not in decline.

Where the hell have you been for the last 3 or 4 years? Under O'Neill we were looking for a top 4 finish, and now we're happy just to survive season in season out. We've turned Into Small Heath, and one of these days we're gonna find ourselves in the Championship along side them.

If that isn't decline I don't know what is.

I never disputed that there has been decline, just that we're not declining now.

 

I won't even dignify the SHA comparison with a proper answer.

Well I doubt we'll ever get back to competing for a top 4 or even a top 6 position under Lerner again, so it's obvious he has lowered fans expectations. Imagine if Ellis had tried that stunt. He'd have been hung drawn and quartered. Now we're just happy to survive in the Premier League.

No pride in the club anymore, and there's certainly no ambition.

 

 

 

 

I can't see any reason why we couldn't compete for top 6 in a couple of years. Even continuing the current transfer policy. Football has always been dominated by the richest to some extent (when we won all our titles in the 1890s we were full of dirty tricks, money in boots for players, factory "jobs" that left a lot of time to train). The current situation would make it appear that we'd have to invest well beyond our means to have another crack at it but I don't think that is the whole story. 

Lambert, if afforded enough time and patience, in my opinion, will have us competing for top 6. We STILL haven't got rid of all the high earning players who left us in the poo the last time round. Shall we wait AT LEAST until Lambert's job description isn't getting the wages down and building a team at the same time so we get the books in order. When we do have the books in order then sticking to Lambert's transfer policy but with some more room for wages we'll probably see some fantastic young talent at our club in the the near future.

 

 

I don't really know how people can say we're in decline. We were in near constant decline from early 2010 to the beginning of this year but since then things have generally been getting better. If we finish higher this season than we did last season (and I think we will) then that'll be the second year in a row we've finished higher than the previous season. We may not be rapidly improving but we're definitely not in decline.

Where the hell have you been for the last 3 or 4 years? Under O'Neill we were looking for a top 4 finish, and now we're happy just to survive season in season out. We've turned Into Small Heath, and one of these days we're gonna find ourselves in the Championship along side them.

If that isn't decline I don't know what is.

 

 

See this is the thing, we WERE competing in the top 6, looking for better. We were also pissing money up the wall left right and centre. The hangover from that is what has caused our current predicament, we still need Bent, Ireland, Given and Hutton 100% off our books. They aren't now. That's a lot of money going in salaries for nothing. None of which is Lambert's fault. 

Who's to say if we finish top half this year (possible, I think we will) combined with those wages being shipped out that Lerner won't invest a little more heavily knowing that the wages will be under control. I know patience is thin with football fans these days but to give Lambert the time to actually get a decent run at doing something long term and a serious project with AVFC, then we have to be patient for another year. Next summer is when you can say whether the board has any ambition or not.

The board's reckless ambition in backing MON is what got us in the mess that, in my opinion, Lambert is doing a fine job of steering us out of.

Edited November 3, 2013 by romavillan

[Big_John_10]

People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today.

It's getting more and more ridiculous. Not only are people rewriting our history to justify lowered expectations they're now trying to rewrite football history.

Yeah money wasn't important. That's why the 4 teams who had champions league football dominated the top 4 for so long.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Big_John_10

[Big_John_10]

we still need Bent, Ireland, Given and Hutton 100% off our books

Haha

A few years ago it was wait till we shift a few big earners. Then it was wait till we shift a few more and now the only thing holding us back are given and Hutton.

[Mantis]

 

People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today.

It's getting more and more ridiculous. Not only are people rewriting our history to justify lowered expectations they're now trying to rewrite football history.

Yeah money wasn't important. That's why the 4 teams who had champions league football dominated the top 4 for so long.

 

I'm not rewriting anything. It was a different time. Football has changed. Money was always important (I never said it wasn't important, so please don't put words into my mouth), but it's become even more important over the last 5 years or so. What could be done on tens of millions a decade or so ago now takes hundreds of millions.

[avfc1982]

We've absolutely slashed our wage bill yet still we don't see any changes. Lerner wants practically every player at the club on a relative pittance, and that's where we're nearly at.

And the result of that is.... Well just look at us now. This is the Villa Randy Lerner has given us. An embarrassment of a team.

[VillaCas]

 

After 10 games

 

W  D  L  F  A   PTS

2   3   5  8  14    9

 

 

Against same opposition

 

W  D  L  F  A   PTS

2   0   8  8  25    6

 

*Hull exchanged for Wigan.

 

Yes I was sad enough to sit and do that but I'm going to go out on a whim and saying we're doing better than last year 

 

I lied.  Hull exchanged for Reading.

 

 

We're

 

W D L F A   Pt

3  2 5  9 12 11.....not 9?

 

Five points better off on the same fixtures as last year

 

Disappointing performances but progress nontheless.

 

Expectation is far to high - we can afford a lower mid-table squad at the moment and that's what we've got

[VillaCas]

 

 

Comparing games from last season is completely meaningless, especially when you have to choose what team to replace the relegated team with.  We're still bottom half, playing shit football.

Well you can decide it is meaningless, but it actually, factually, does have meaning.

 

It demonstrates, with actual facts, which I know does annoy people and is nowhere near as good as ignorance and blind prejudice, that Team for Team we ar egetting better results than last year, so far.

 

Now, you may or may not care, or you may not like the football, but you are quite wrong to describe it as meaningless.

 

 

No, it is meaningless.  Three of last year's teams we won't be playing.  Three new teams didn't have corresponding results last year.  You can't say Hull = QPR or whatever, they're entirely different teams.  In any case, being marginally better than last year, which was just about as bad as it gets, isn't saying much.

 

 

It's a very fair comparison actually, it just doesn't fit your prejudices

 

[VillaCas]

How come this like for like comparison wasn't used last year?

How come during our worst start to a premier league season the criteria to show improvement was to compare the end of mcleishs season to the start of last year? Now it's completely different. Instead of comparing the same things it's now game for game comparisons.

TBH lambert is starting to look very average but I don't think we can do better than him. Yes he's making mistake but if we replaced him we'd end up with a manager that would just make different mistakes. Under this horrendous ownership the manager has to be 100% perfect because of the limitations he's working with.

 

Haha BJ.... instead of moaning (constantly) produce whatever stats you think support your case

[1974Centenary]

 

Sad to see that so many are frustrated

They'd be just as frustrated if we were fighting for top four.  There's no patience among fans today and having so much coverage of the game in the media and on the net just adds to the frustration.  

 

We're in transition and we're steadily improving.  If we finish comfortably mid-table this year that will be  progress and allows us to build again for improvement next year.  All this moaning and failure to see the bigger picture smacks of the Venky's boardroom at Blackburn Rovers.

 

I think that's one of the strangest things ive read today.What would these frustrations be based on,considering this hypothetical position?