Isa Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 The problem is that our home form is so dire, that games like today are ones that we really need to be winning. If we were competant at home, points away to West Ham and Hull would be acceptable but sadly that isn't the case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 This season has turned into a bit of a grind now. I now Benteke's been injured and our other forwards are unproven/out of sorts/Bowery but 4 league games without a goal isn't good enough. I don't think even the TSM season had that occurring. Last season we ended with goals galore and looking like we could score everytime we crossed the halfway line. I can't just believe it was the threat of relegation that got them going like that. The first 3 games I was happy with but starting with the Newcastle game we haven't been great to watch really have we? Bar the 2nd half against Man. City and 1st half against Everton our attacking play is very disjointed again which is not good at all. It won't solve everything but Lambert please sign a creative midfielder in January who can actually go into the first 11 and make a difference. It will make everyone's lives a little more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Does anybody know when we did last go four games without scoring by the way? Just checked and it didn't happen under McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Posted this in the Match thread. All sorts of the usual apocalyptic doom mongering as we get a point away without at least 3 first choice players. And continue a fine record which now goes back exactly 1 year. 19 away games, and outside the Big 4 NO DEFEATS...of 19 games away in that time we lost 5, to Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man City. Of the other 14 games we won 7 and drawn 7 scoring 25 and conceeding 17. How on earth do you find that so dreadful FFS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 That was a performance McLeish would have been proud of. Spot on. I agree, and therein lies the difference between PL and AM. I dont think PL is proud of that perfromance at all, just the character and the result. Whereas AM would have bottled that perfromance and took it everywhere - as we saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Does anybody know when we did last go four games without scoring by the way? Just checked and it didn't happen under McLeish. ..and? I wonder if it happened under Ron Saunders. Posted this in the Match thread. All sorts of the usual apocalyptic doom mongering as we get a point away without at least 3 first choice players. And continue a fine record which now goes back exactly 1 year. 19 away games, and outside the Big 4 NO DEFEATS...of 19 games away in that time we lost 5, to Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man City. Of the other 14 games we won 7 and drawn 7 scoring 25 and conceeding 17. How on earth do you find that so dreadful FFS ? Excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Does anybody know when we did last go four games without scoring by the way? Just checked and it didn't happen under McLeish. Dunno, but a lot of people seemed to know we'd gone x amount of games with no clean sheet, they will probably know the answer to this one now that one has gone away (away from home). Must take a lot of effort for some peole to keep spotting the next bad stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Does anyone remember how shit we played away at Arsenal the year we last won the League ? Just wondering ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfingers Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Does anybody know when we did last go four games without scoring by the way? Just checked and it didn't happen under McLeish.There's another stat for you to add to the collection then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Posted this in the Match thread. All sorts of the usual apocalyptic doom mongering as we get a point away without at least 3 first choice players. And continue a fine record which now goes back exactly 1 year. 19 away games, and outside the Big 4 NO DEFEATS...of 19 games away in that time we lost 5, to Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man City. Of the other 14 games we won 7 and drawn 7 scoring 25 and conceeding 17. How on earth do you find that so dreadful FFS ? As has been stated above, our pathetic home form makes a point in a winnable away game not so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) This season has turned into a bit of a grind now. I now Benteke's been injured and our other forwards are unproven/out of sorts/Bowery but 4 league games without a goal isn't good enough. I don't think even the TSM season had that occurring. Last season we ended with goals galore and looking like we could score everytime we crossed the halfway line. I can't just believe it was the threat of relegation that got them going like that. The first 3 games I was happy with but starting with the Newcastle game we haven't been great to watch really have we? Bar the 2nd half against Man. City and 1st half against Everton our attacking play is very disjointed again which is not good at all. It won't solve everything but Lambert please sign a creative midfielder in January who can actually go into the first 11 and make a difference. It will make everyone's lives a little more enjoyable. Yes , since the Newcastle game it has been crap, oh, apart from winning away at Norwich, oh and beating Man City, a good first half against Everton and 2 valuable away draws. Had we actually beat Everton and won those two away games you ar eright, it would be even better, but then of course we would now be in the Top6, and you surely don't /didn't have that as a reasonable benchmark did you ? Posted this in the Match thread. All sorts of the usual apocalyptic doom mongering as we get a point away without at least 3 first choice players. And continue a fine record which now goes back exactly 1 year. 19 away games, and outside the Big 4 NO DEFEATS...of 19 games away in that time we lost 5, to Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man City. Of the other 14 games we won 7 and drawn 7 scoring 25 and conceeding 17. How on earth do you find that so dreadful FFS ? As has been stated above, our pathetic home form makes a point in a winnable away game not so great. Well it may well have been 'said above', but it is still codswallop. Ask any Manager, from moyes, Wenger etc down, any away point in this League is valuable, and the idea of winnable games is utterly meaningless. They all are, and they all aren't. Edited November 2, 2013 by terrytini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I don't think everything can be blamed on Lambert and/or Lerner. We had a horrible opening set of fixtures and have been **** over with injuries once again. We haven't really had many chances this season to put out our fully fit best side. Who else can we blame for this quite diabolical squad though, Doug Ellis? Laughable, who else can be bloody blamed then? The guy who sets the budget and the guy brings in the players i'd say you absolutely can blame them. You're preaching to the converted with me, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) Does anybody know when we did last go four games without scoring by the way? Just checked and it didn't happen under McLeish. There's another stat for you to add to the collection then Just goes to show that most stats don't really tell us all that much besides the obvious. When you say "worth" are you going by what we paid for them or how much you would value them? How much they would command if they were sold. Would anyone pay any more than 5 mil for any of our players except Benteke, Guzan or Delph? Or if you were a manager, would you? To expand the point, how many of our players even have the potential to be worth more than that in the future? 1 or 2? I think Gabby and Weimann are worth more than that, possibly Vlaar as well. As for potential, it's impossible to say. I bet nobody thought Benteke would turn out to be somebody we could potentially get £30m+ for. Not saying any of the other players will turn out that good but it's impossible to see into the future. Edited November 2, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 We're not playing well at the moment but nor were we this time last year and leaking goals all over the place. This year we look a lot more solid,so let's build from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) Soooo 10 games into the season now. Id have liked a couple more points, perhaps to remain on par with WBA or Hull... But there we go. I see it as though we have picked up points in half of the games we have played, which isn't too bad. We also have more points compared to games played which is the key to avoid relegation. How does this compare to last season - does anyone have the info? Edited November 2, 2013 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Well to get 50 points, a guaranteed top half finish, we should be on 13 now, so we are 2 points shy. And unlike many teams have played 8 of the top 10. Really makes one wonder what the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 It actually does matter 'how long we're prepared to wait' to the fan base though VillaCas. There has to come a point where acceptance of patience is replaced by expectancy. I tend to think that is part of the problem why we have underachieved for so long due to the continual apathy of our fan base. We in general are less demanding than we should be and believe the rhetoric coming from the club that it's a five year plan or we're in another rebuilding process more in hope than actual belief that this club is going to turn the corner. Oh so now it's all the fans who don't agree with you's fault......I see how this works. Lerner f*cked up with O'Neill, Houllier and McLeish - I think Lambert is our best chance to make a recovery, so I choose to get behind him. If I see that he's not making progress I won't be as vocal in my support. If I see him making a complete balls up of it, I would want him replaced. If you think that your constant sniping and negativity is helping the club in the long term, thats your perogative - I would have thought though that if you truly want to agitate for major change then you might look for a more effective platform than sarky comments on a web forum Do you actually believe that our current squad after the period of development you speak off is going to be good enough for top six? NO - nowhere near good enough - in fact we could spend another 50m in the next window and would still not be good enough for the top six. If you do then fair play but i feel the current crop may have hit their ceiling of ability already and what we see now is what we'll get for the foreseeable future until they are replaced which leads me to your second question. Lets throw Barry and Milner into the equation with the players you have already chosen (Yorke and Young). Why did Barry stay for an extra season. He wanted to see if we could qualify for the CL and probably looked beyond that to see the ambition of the club. I thought it was because we refused to sell him to Liverpool? Players at any club although they will always deny it in public, will be aware of how the club is going to be run in the present and in the future and i'm in no doubt that both Barry and Milner and indeed Yorke and Young left our club on the basis of a lack of ambition. They knew they weren't going to win any trophies with us or be a member of a team that was going to compete for a sustained period of success and unfortunately they have been proven right! We're not a top six side and unless we have different owner I don't see us being one anytime soon, in which case we are always going to lose players to bigger clubs. Newcastle couldnt stop Ba going to Chelsea, Everton despite finishing 7th still couldnt hang on to Fellani and soon Baines. We are not going to be a top six side in the foreseeable future but that is not down to Lambert The way to get around that is to show ambition by buying the right players. Player's who your better players at the club will want to stay and play with because they will know the club is showing ambition by bringing quality to the club and will at least be able to challenge within the top six and of course you will have to pay wages in line with the quality you sign. I've seen many posters coming back with but we've already tried that with MON and it didn't work. It didn't work due to spunking millions on the wrong players who spent their time on the bench and that choice of player was down to the manager and not the actual method or policy used! I repeat, we are not going to be challenging in the top six anytime soon, thats not down to Lambert Your last point concerning being in a cycle is one i have already agreed with but you can break out of that cycle by investing well in the right type of players at both ends of the spectrum (youth & experience) rather than just one as Everton have already proven to create the right type of balance in your team. Of course you need an astute manager and a chairman who will back that astute manager when the right players become available to build that balance. Currently we may or may not have the right manager as for me he has gone too far in one direction and not enough in the other for whatever the reason, but at the moment i don't think i'm alone in thinking that we certainly don't have the right chairman. I'm much closer to your way of thinking regarding Lerner than I am regarding Lambert. My personal view is that Lambert has done well with the limitations imposed on him - I think that the current squad is a staging post for better players to arrive over the next couple of seasons. It actually does matter 'how long we're prepared to wait' to the fan base though VillaCas. There has to come a point where acceptance of patience is replaced by expectancy. I tend to think that is part of the problem why we have underachieved for so long due to the continual apathy of our fan base. We in general are less demanding than we should be and believe the rhetoric coming from the club that it's a five year plan or we're in another rebuilding process more in hope than actual belief that this club is going to turn the corner. Oh so now it's all the fans who don't agree with you's fault......I see how this works. Lerner f*cked up with O'Neill, Houllier and McLeish - I think Lambert is our best chance to make a recovery, so I choose to get behind him. If I see that he's not making progress I won't be as vocal in my support. If I see him making a complete balls up of it, I would want him replaced. If you think that your constant sniping and negativity is helping the club in the long term, thats your perogative - I would have thought though that if you truly want to agitate for major change then you might look for a more effective platform than sarky comments on a web forum Do you actually believe that our current squad after the period of development you speak off is going to be good enough for top six? NO - nowhere near good enough - in fact we could spend another 50m in the next window and would still not be good enough for the top six. If you do then fair play but i feel the current crop may have hit their ceiling of ability already and what we see now is what we'll get for the foreseeable future until they are replaced which leads me to your second question. Lets throw Barry and Milner into the equation with the players you have already chosen (Yorke and Young). Why did Barry stay for an extra season. He wanted to see if we could qualify for the CL and probably looked beyond that to see the ambition of the club. I thought it was because we refused to sell him to Liverpool? Players at any club although they will always deny it in public, will be aware of how the club is going to be run in the present and in the future and i'm in no doubt that both Barry and Milner and indeed Yorke and Young left our club on the basis of a lack of ambition. They knew they weren't going to win any trophies with us or be a member of a team that was going to compete for a sustained period of success and unfortunately they have been proven right! We're not a top six side and unless we have different owner I don't see us being one anytime soon, in which case we are always going to lose players to bigger clubs. Newcastle couldnt stop Ba going to Chelsea, Everton despite finishing 7th still couldnt hang on to Fellani and soon Baines. We are not going to be a top six side in the foreseeable future but that is not down to Lambert The way to get around that is to show ambition by buying the right players. Player's who your better players at the club will want to stay and play with because they will know the club is showing ambition by bringing quality to the club and will at least be able to challenge within the top six and of course you will have to pay wages in line with the quality you sign. I've seen many posters coming back with but we've already tried that with MON and it didn't work. It didn't work due to spunking millions on the wrong players who spent their time on the bench and that choice of player was down to the manager and not the actual method or policy used! I repeat, we are not going to be challenging in the top six anytime soon, thats not down to Lambert Your last point concerning being in a cycle is one i have already agreed with but you can break out of that cycle by investing well in the right type of players at both ends of the spectrum (youth & experience) rather than just one as Everton have already proven to create the right type of balance in your team. Of course you need an astute manager and a chairman who will back that astute manager when the right players become available to build that balance. Currently we may or may not have the right manager as for me he has gone too far in one direction and not enough in the other for whatever the reason, but at the moment i don't think i'm alone in thinking that we certainly don't have the right chairman. I'm much closer to your way of thinking regarding Lerner than I am regarding Lambert. My personal view is that Lambert has done well with the limitations imposed on him - I think that the current squad is a staging post for better players to arrive over the next couple of seasons. Concerning this debate with you i've made no 'sarky comments' and if you don't like the answers to your questions then don't ask the questions in the first place unless you're prepared to listen to someone else's opinion without insults. No-one is expecting 50m to be spent in one window but an 11m net expenditure when there were glaring weaknesses in the team is tantamount to negligence by the chairman especially when you also consider the increase in revenue from TV money. Concerning the transfer of Barry. After Liverpool didn't meet our valuation it was agreed between both player and manager that Barry would stay for another season to see if we could meet his ambitions. You seem to be ruling out the possibility of another club coming in for Barry when his transfer to Liverpool collapsed. I agree that not being a top six side isn't all down to Lambert. Most of the blame for that lies with the chairman but in one of your previous posts while you were debating with someone else you mentioned the turn over of players purchased by Lambert. So this is his squad is it not, formed by his choice of player and as you have already agreed with me, those players have shown that they are no better than mid table quality at best and at worst relegation material so Lambert cannot be excluded from criticism especially when you also consider that several of his purchases on a limited budget are not considered good enough to get into the first team even when we have injuries. Taking that into consideration you cannot say by any stretch of the imagination that with the exception of Benteke Lambert has done a good job in formulating his own squad at Villa Park because at the moment we are no better than where we were under McLeish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avfc96 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 In comparison to this time last season- (including the Sunderland game) 12-13 P-10 W-2 D-3 L-5 GF- 8 GA- 14 13-14 P-10 W-3 D-2 L-5 GF-9 GA-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Same fixtures, swapping QPR for Hull.........last year played 10, Won 1, Drawn 1, Lost 8. Points = 4 Goal Diff = -18 This year, Won 3, Drawn 2, Lost 5. points 11, Goal Diff -3. As I say, makes you wonder what the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 After 10 games W D L F A PTS 2 3 5 8 14 9 Against same opposition W D L F A PTS 2 0 8 8 25 6 *Hull exchanged for Wigan. Yes I was sad enough to sit and do that but I'm going to go out on a whim and saying we're doing better than last year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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