villianusa Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 The worrying thing for me is Lambert is hiding behind missed chances to cover up how badly we are playing. Ten games in and our possession is at 37.3% only beaten by Stoke who are below 23%. We are so bad at keeping the ball it's a joke, I can't understand how he can honestly believe the way we are playing is good or entertaining. We rely on long balls to Benteke and hope we can't snatch something on the break because we aren't good enough to pass the balls through players. I watch other teams and watch basic movement into open areas that our players don't seem to want to do or know how to. A Villa player gets the ball and everyone else stands still. if we get lucky we have one player open for a pass where other teams will have three or four. This was a feature under the last few managers so I'm not just blaming Lambert but he has the job now and hasn't improved it at all. He is found out week after week by other managers and he doesn't know how to change it. It happened last week against Everton and he was clueless against Westham yesterday. The team doesn't seem to have any shape or fluidity and players seem very frustrated. He needs to stop trying to force players into a formation because he wants to play them. He needs to stop playing three in midfield because the players he bought aren't good enough to go 2v2. He needs to give Benteke support and throw Gabby or Andi up top and drop the other. Get some width in the team and put some crosses into the box for the forwards to attack in front of goal. But in the end if we don't do better in keeping possession then we will always be under pressure. Pressure causes mistakes, in turn this will bring more defeats than victories. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today.It's getting more and more ridiculous. Not only are people rewriting our history to justify lowered expectations they're now trying to rewrite football history. Yeah money wasn't important. That's why the 4 teams who had champions league football dominated the top 4 for so long. I'm not rewriting anything. It was a different time. Football has changed. Money was always important (I never said it wasn't important, so please don't put words into my mouth), but it's become even more important over the last 5 years or so. What could be done on tens of millions a decade or so ago now takes hundreds of millions. What a ridiculous post. You do know football clubs also earn more money than they did decades ago? Money being spent has increased but so has the money coming back into clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 How come this like for like comparison wasn't used last year? How come during our worst start to a premier league season the criteria to show improvement was to compare the end of mcleishs season to the start of last year? Now it's completely different. Instead of comparing the same things it's now game for game comparisons. TBH lambert is starting to look very average but I don't think we can do better than him. Yes he's making mistake but if we replaced him we'd end up with a manager that would just make different mistakes. Under this horrendous ownership the manager has to be 100% perfect because of the limitations he's working with. Haha BJ.... instead of moaning (constantly) produce whatever stats you think support your case My case is that you and a few others select certain criteria to suit your argument that we're constantly improving. You did it last year and you're doing it again now. I even remember asking you if you'd compare things the same way and oh look you haven't. If you did compare the end of last year with the start of this then you'd see it's not as good. Like I said, you select what ever comparison suits your argument. Makes it a bit pointless really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today. It's getting more and more ridiculous. Not only are people rewriting our history to justify lowered expectations they're now trying to rewrite football history. Yeah money wasn't important. That's why the 4 teams who had champions league football dominated the top 4 for so long. I'm not rewriting anything. It was a different time. Football has changed. Money was always important (I never said it wasn't important, so please don't put words into my mouth), but it's become even more important over the last 5 years or so. What could be done on tens of millions a decade or so ago now takes hundreds of millions. What a ridiculous post. You do know football clubs also earn more money than they did decades ago? Money being spent has increased but so has the money coming back into clubs. Clearly the two haven't been going at the same pace though. If that was the case then how come the league is far less open than it once was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted November 3, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted November 3, 2013 The worrying thing for me is Lambert is hiding behind missed chances to cover up how badly we are playing. Ten games in and our possession is at 37.3% only beaten by Stoke who are below 23%. We are so bad at keeping the ball it's a joke, I can't understand how he can honestly believe the way we are playing is good or entertaining. We rely on long balls to Benteke and hope we can't snatch something on the break because we aren't good enough to pass the balls through players. I watch other teams and watch basic movement into open areas that our players don't seem to want to do or know how to. A Villa player gets the ball and everyone else stands still. if we get lucky we have one player open for a pass where other teams will have three or four. This was a feature under the last few managers so I'm not just blaming Lambert but he has the job now and hasn't improved it at all. He is found out week after week by other managers and he doesn't know how to change it. It happened last week against Everton and he was clueless against Westham yesterday. The team doesn't seem to have any shape or fluidity and players seem very frustrated. He needs to stop trying to force players into a formation because he wants to play them. He needs to stop playing three in midfield because the players he bought aren't good enough to go 2v2. He needs to give Benteke support and throw Gabby or Andi up top and drop the other. Get some width in the team and put some crosses into the box for the forwards to attack in front of goal. But in the end if we don't do better in keeping possession then we will always be under pressure. Pressure causes mistakes, in turn this will bring more defeats than victories. I agree with a lot of this post. The football we play is simply atrocious, we're so desperate for creativity, the most annoying thing is, we've needed a "number 10" since Merson left. Why is this not recognised by the club/Lambert? But yeah, the complete lack of movement, and even simple things like playing in triangles, pass and move, stuff you teach kids when they're 8 seems completely lost on this team. The constant whacking it up to Benteke and hoping that it falls to one of our players is getting incredibly tedious now. The atmosphere within the Villa fans at the game yesterday was just a bit strange, our usually rowdy and loud away fans were extremely quiet and subdued generally down to the fact that it was just so bad to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today.It's getting more and more ridiculous. Not only are people rewriting our history to justify lowered expectations they're now trying to rewrite football history. Yeah money wasn't important. That's why the 4 teams who had champions league football dominated the top 4 for so long.I'm not rewriting anything. It was a different time. Football has changed. Money was always important (I never said it wasn't important, so please don't put words into my mouth), but it's become even more important over the last 5 years or so. What could be done on tens of millions a decade or so ago now takes hundreds of millions. What a ridiculous post. You do know football clubs also earn more money than they did decades ago? Money being spent has increased but so has the money coming back into clubs. Clearly the two haven't been going at the same pace though. If that was the case then how come the league is far less open than it once was? How is it far less open? It used to be the exact same 4 teams finishing in the top 4 every single year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Since Randy took over our league position at this time of the year has been this.... 2006/07 played 11- points 18 2007/08 10 15 2008/09 10 20 2009/10 10 18 2010/11 10 18 2011/12 11 15 2012/13 11 9 2013/14 10 11 now as you can see our worst start to a season has not come under mccleishs time or even Houllier's,the last two seasons belong to Mr Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Is he moving the club forward ,maybe ,maybe not but the depressing thing for me is if he was to go /sacked I can't work out who we could bring in given the threadbare way the club is being run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Since Randy took over our league position at this time of the year has been this.... 2006/07 played 11- points 18 2007/08 10 15 2008/09 10 20 2009/10 10 18 2010/11 10 18 2011/12 11 15 2012/13 11 9 2013/14 10 11 now as you can see our worst start to a season has not come under mccleishs time or even Houllier's,the last two seasons belong to Mr Lambert. Interesting stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Don't be misled by some posters use of the fixture list ........ We are in a much better position now than at any time under McLeish and are 5 points ahead of the same fixtures last season - so slow progress. the above league positions show we are not in a better position,and using fixture list instead of games played is a false stat because we did not play hull last season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I'm not convinced by lambert but he no doubt has a different brief to MoN GED or Eck. He's clearly been told to get shot of all the big earners buy on the cheap and just keep us up. Each season if we stay up he's achieved his target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today. It's getting more and more ridiculous. Not only are people rewriting our history to justify lowered expectations they're now trying to rewrite football history. Yeah money wasn't important. That's why the 4 teams who had champions league football dominated the top 4 for so long. I'm not rewriting anything. It was a different time. Football has changed. Money was always important (I never said it wasn't important, so please don't put words into my mouth), but it's become even more important over the last 5 years or so. What could be done on tens of millions a decade or so ago now takes hundreds of millions. What a ridiculous post. You do know football clubs also earn more money than they did decades ago? Money being spent has increased but so has the money coming back into clubs. Clearly the two haven't been going at the same pace though. If that was the case then how come the league is far less open than it once was? How is it far less open? It used to be the exact same 4 teams finishing in the top 4 every single year. It's more open for the top 7 teams but far more closed for the rest of us. Since Randy took over our league position at this time of the year has been this.... 2006/07 played 11- points 18 2007/08 10 15 2008/09 10 20 2009/10 10 18 2010/11 10 18 2011/12 11 15 2012/13 11 9 2013/14 10 11 now as you can see our worst start to a season has not come under mccleishs time or even Houllier's,the last two seasons belong to Mr Lambert. I was under the impression the season finished in May? I don't really think that stat bears much relevance because it doesn't take into account the quality of the teams we've faced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I'm not convinced by lambert but he no doubt has a different brief to MoN GED or Eck. He's clearly been told to get shot of all the big earners buy on the cheap and just keep us up. Each season if we stay up he's achieved his target. And that's fine,if your expectations year in and year out are to avoid relegation you should be content,but when you play with fire eventually you get burnt,and relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) People keep bringing up Ellis but that was a different time. Even when Randy first bought the club money wasn't as crucial as it is today. It's getting more and more ridiculous. Not only are people rewriting our history to justify lowered expectations they're now trying to rewrite football history. Yeah money wasn't important. That's why the 4 teams who had champions league football dominated the top 4 for so long. I'm not rewriting anything. It was a different time. Football has changed. Money was always important (I never said it wasn't important, so please don't put words into my mouth), but it's become even more important over the last 5 years or so. What could be done on tens of millions a decade or so ago now takes hundreds of millions. What a ridiculous post. You do know football clubs also earn more money than they did decades ago? Money being spent has increased but so has the money coming back into clubs. Clearly the two haven't been going at the same pace though. If that was the case then how come the league is far less open than it once was? How is it far less open? It used to be the exact same 4 teams finishing in the top 4 every single year. It's more open for the top 7 teams but far more closed for the rest of us. Since Randy took over our league position at this time of the year has been this.... 2006/07 played 11- points 18 2007/08 10 15 2008/09 10 20 2009/10 10 18 2010/11 10 18 2011/12 11 15 2012/13 11 9 2013/14 10 11 now as you can see our worst start to a season has not come under mccleishs time or even Houllier's,the last two seasons belong to Mr Lambert. I was under the impression the season finished in May? I don't really think that stat bears much relevance because it doesn't take into account the quality of the teams we've faced. That's your opinion,others may see it differently.Maybe I should list all the results from these years to see who we did play. Edited November 3, 2013 by 1974Centenary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 That's your opinion,others may see it differently. Well obviously. However, it's a fact that we've had a very tough start to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I'm not convinced by lambert but he no doubt has a different brief to MoN GED or Eck. He's clearly been told to get shot of all the big earners buy on the cheap and just keep us up. Each season if we stay up he's achieved his target. I.e. Wigan Mark II... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1974Centenary Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) First ten games That's your opinion,others may see it differently. Well obviously. However, it's a fact that we've had a very tough start to this season. In the history of the premier league Villa have undoubtedly had the toughest start to a league campaign ever.And yet we started by beating Arsenal,go figure. Edited November 3, 2013 by 1974Centenary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 It's more open for the top 7 teams but far more closed for the rest of us. So how is that different to when Doug was around? The top 4 was always closed off for everyone but the same 4 teams. You've just said its more open now. And actually no villa fan is talking about top 4 anymore. But there's no reason we couldn't expect to be around the top 7 on a more consistent basis. The only reason is our owner refusal to run the club in a way that allows that, you may choose to lower expectations for what ever reason but don't pretend Lerner's task is impossible compared to Doug's era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) First ten games That's your opinion,others may see it differently. Well obviously. However, it's a fact that we've had a very tough start to this season. In the history of the premier league Villa have undoubtedly had the toughest start to a league campaign ever.And yet we started by beating Arsenal,go figure. So? Just because we beat Arsenal doesn't mean we're going to beat every other top team. It's more open for the top 7 teams but far more closed for the rest of us. So how is that different to when Doug was around? The top 4 was always closed off for everyone but the same 4 teams. You've just said its more open now. And actually no villa fan is talking about top 4 anymore. But there's no reason we couldn't expect to be around the top 7 on a more consistent basis. The only reason is our owner refusal to run the club in a way that allows that, you may choose to lower expectations for what ever reason but don't pretend Lerner's task is impossible compared to Doug's era. I've already explained what's different - it now requires far more money to compete at the top of the table. Actually, avfc1982 was talking about the top 4/6 and how he thinks we'll never challenge for that again under Lerner. I was making the point that we aren't likely to challenge for the top 4 again unless we get bought by a really rich owner who's willing to put more money into the club than we've ever seen before. As for Lerner "refusing" to run the club in a way that allows that, do you really expect him to sink yet more and more money into the club? As annoying as it is I don't blame him after what happened before, coupled with the fact that it takes even more money to be competitive these days. The real issue here is not the spending levels now but the lack of restraint and control in his first few years. If he hadn't taken such a laid back attitude to the finances until relatively recently then maybe we'd be able to spend more. Edited November 3, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I've already explained what's different - it now requires far more money to compete at the top of the table. But it's the same. We couldn't afford to compete with the sky 4 with Doug in charge and we can't now. Lerner is not in a more difficult situation. And any issues that do make it difficult have been brought on by his poor decisions. As for Lerner "refusing" to run the club in a way that allows that, do you really expect him to sink yet more and more money into the club? As annoying as it is I don't blame him after what happened before, coupled with the fact that it takes even more money to be competitive these days. I actually can't believe that fans actually have this opinion. It's shocking, it really is. You don't blame him? Are you serious? No one forced him to buy the club and he's done nothing but **** up. And because of those **** ups you've got no problem with a billionaire running the club you support on the cheap hoping to survive each year? Amazing. The real issue here is not the spending levels now but the lack of restraint and control in his first few years. If he hadn't taken such a laid back attitude to the finances until relatively recently then maybe we'd be able to spend more. No I think the issue is spending levels now. Regardless of his previous **** ups, surviving on the cheap is not an acceptable aim for this club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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