Big_John_10 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Obviously BJ you are welcome to provide any stats that you think prove whatever point you are trying to make I don't need to provide stats. My point is you choose the criteria to compare in order to suit your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 How much time are you prepared to wait for that development VillaCas? This season, next season or beyond that and what if those young players don't develop in the way that you hope they will? They will have to make way for a second batch to come in and we wait on another period of development and so on? It really doesn't matter how long we're prepared to wait does it? This is what's happening and it's not due to change anytime soon. My take on the "plan" is that Lambert is "making do" with bargain buys at the moment and that the purse strings will be loosened slightly going forward allowing better players to come in. Given these restrictions I can't identify anyone better than Lambert who would be a realistic option to take the job on. I beleive that the best we can hope for under these circumstances would eventually be 7th place - I don't like that but there it is The problem is VillaCas that through each developing period those players who shine most will be cherry picked while we try to develop a better team and consequently we'll be caught in a vicious circle of development rather than creating a better balanced side of experienced quality and youth which would give us a more solid base to build from. I agree - although its always been this way - Yorke, Young etc etc. What do you propose that would change this? Of course that experienced quality comes at a premium but Lerner won't have too many excuses left come next summer when we are finally rid of most of 'the bomb squad and one would hope that we'll see a more balanced transfer policy in two windows time rather than being drip fed potential. Hopefully better players will arrive - It's a strange thing now supporting a team outside the top 6, personally I think we are resigned to a constant cycle of rebuilding, asset-striping, rising and falling around mid-table. I hate it but that is what modern football has become and unless an rich sugar-daddy arrives we, like the majority of clubs are stuck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 As far as Aston Villa is concerned I doubt very much we'll be the club where Lambert realises his true potential. In terms of fees he is being given a few quid to spend but in terms of wages it seems his hands are still very much tied and he is having to take chances on players with potential but unproven at the level we currently compete at. I give it at the most two years before either Lamberts walks due to becoming totally pissed off with the lack of ambition from those above or he is sacked and made a scapegoat for the failings of the owner. Again, I agree. He's had £40m the last two years, not a fortune, but not a pittance either. He chose to spend it how he has. 10m this, 20m last is not a fortune when he has to build a team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Iffy links to young defenders/Midfielder Pontus Jansson (Malmö FF) & Lewis Kidd (Celtic). 2 talented players but who can't be expected to improve our starting 11 for a couple of seasons. Still not sure if Lerner & Lambert are building a team for the future or for the Championship. Then again it's probaly nothing in the links and we hopefully have better players lined up to address the very obvious and glaring weaknesses in our team I'm not too unhappy with our squad - at the moment we are a lower-mid-table team and the squad reflects that. Sadly, we've been in transition for four seasons but Lambert has only been at it for 12 months - he's already completely revamped the squad during tricky economic times and I'm looking forward to the gradual improvement to personnel as we move forward and see no reason why this shouldnt include promising youngsters alongside more experienced players Good god, no wonder Lerner and Lambert get such an easy ride with fans as apathetic as this. Where's the pride in the club. We never used to accept rubbish in the Ellis days but we do now. Where did it all go so wrong?? Realistic not apathetic You can f*ck off with your "better supporter" sh*t as well - we would love to be winning the champions league every season but that's not going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 FWIW I agree with Lambo in his press conference. I'm still seeing progress being made from last season. Are the unhappy few simply expecting to much too soon? Too much too soon? This will be our 4th consecutive season of struggle. When has that ever happened in the last 35 - 40 years? Why have we as a fan base become so passive and accept such crap when we have never done before? Lerner must have released some kind of brainwashing drugs to the masses at Villa Park while no one was looking. I've never known Villa fans to be so apathetic as this. We used to demand a certain standard at Villa but now we sit back and accept the scraps Lerner throws at us like nodding dogs. Grow a pair for f#ck sake and show some passion in the club! Well said. In the 14 premiership years before Lerner we finished outside the top 8 5 times. We're now probably going to do that for the 4th time in a row. Why is it so acceptable now? It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Obviously BJ you are welcome to provide any stats that you think prove whatever point you are trying to make I don't need to provide stats. My point is you choose the criteria to compare in order to suit your argument. I just explained why i choose that comparison but you've decided to edit that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Iffy links to young defenders/Midfielder Pontus Jansson (Malmö FF) & Lewis Kidd (Celtic). 2 talented players but who can't be expected to improve our starting 11 for a couple of seasons. Still not sure if Lerner & Lambert are building a team for the future or for the Championship. Then again it's probaly nothing in the links and we hopefully have better players lined up to address the very obvious and glaring weaknesses in our team I'm not too unhappy with our squad - at the moment we are a lower-mid-table team and the squad reflects that. Sadly, we've been in transition for four seasons but Lambert has only been at it for 12 months - he's already completely revamped the squad during tricky economic times and I'm looking forward to the gradual improvement to personnel as we move forward and see no reason why this shouldnt include promising youngsters alongside more experienced players Good god, no wonder Lerner and Lambert get such an easy ride with fans as apathetic as this. Where's the pride in the club. We never used to accept rubbish in the Ellis days but we do now. Where did it all go so wrong?? Realistic not apathetic You can f*ck off with your "better supporter" sh*t as well - we would love to be winning the champions league every season but that's not going to happen Nobody said we want to win the champions league, we just don't want to be run like we are Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Iffy links to young defenders/Midfielder Pontus Jansson (Malmö FF) & Lewis Kidd (Celtic). 2 talented players but who can't be expected to improve our starting 11 for a couple of seasons. Still not sure if Lerner & Lambert are building a team for the future or for the Championship. Then again it's probaly nothing in the links and we hopefully have better players lined up to address the very obvious and glaring weaknesses in our team I'm not too unhappy with our squad - at the moment we are a lower-mid-table team and the squad reflects that. Sadly, we've been in transition for four seasons but Lambert has only been at it for 12 months - he's already completely revamped the squad during tricky economic times and I'm looking forward to the gradual improvement to personnel as we move forward and see no reason why this shouldnt include promising youngsters alongside more experienced players Good god, no wonder Lerner and Lambert get such an easy ride with fans as apathetic as this. Where's the pride in the club. We never used to accept rubbish in the Ellis days but we do now. Where did it all go so wrong?? Realistic not apathetic You can f*ck off with your "better supporter" sh*t as well - we would love to be winning the champions league every season but that's not going to happen You view it as realistic because your apathy has accepted it as realistic. Obviously BJ you are welcome to provide any stats that you think prove whatever point you are trying to make I don't need to provide stats. My point is you choose the criteria to compare in order to suit your argument. I just explained why i choose that comparison but you've decided to edit that out Yes because it suits the argument you're making at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 FWIW I agree with Lambo in his press conference. I'm still seeing progress being made from last season. Are the unhappy few simply expecting to much too soon? Too much too soon? This will be our 4th consecutive season of struggle. When has that ever happened in the last 35 - 40 years? Why have we as a fan base become so passive and accept such crap when we have never done before? Lerner must have released some kind of brainwashing drugs to the masses at Villa Park while no one was looking. I've never known Villa fans to be so apathetic as this. We used to demand a certain standard at Villa but now we sit back and accept the scraps Lerner throws at us like nodding dogs. Grow a pair for f#ck sake and show some passion in the club! Well said. In the 14 premiership years before Lerner we finished outside the top 8 5 times. We're now probably going to do that for the 4th time in a row. Why is it so acceptable now? It's ridiculous. I'm more with you on this one BJ but this is the Lambert thread - personally I'm happy with Lambert but like you have some issues with Lerner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 FWIW I agree with Lambo in his press conference. I'm still seeing progress being made from last season. Are the unhappy few simply expecting to much too soon?Too much too soon? This will be our 4th consecutive season of struggle. When has that ever happened in the last 35 - 40 years? Why have we as a fan base become so passive and accept such crap when we have never done before? Lerner must have released some kind of brainwashing drugs to the masses at Villa Park while no one was looking. I've never known Villa fans to be so apathetic as this. We used to demand a certain standard at Villa but now we sit back and accept the scraps Lerner throws at us like nodding dogs. Grow a pair for f#ck sake and show some passion in the club! Well said. In the 14 premiership years before Lerner we finished outside the top 8 5 times. We're now probably going to do that for the 4th time in a row. Why is it so acceptable now? It's ridiculous. I'm more with you on this one BJ but this is the Lambert thread - personally I'm happy with Lambert but like you have some issues with Lerner Yeah wrong thread for it. I just got Lerner's stupid face in my mind and couldn't help but post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 The problem is that his first year signings most of them paid off quite quickly but this summers signings he hasn't had the same success. Bacuna yes and maybe Luna have been a success so far but the others are taking more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 On another note, We could be run like Leeds, Sunderland, Newcastle, Blackburn. it does not always pay to buy in top players as this is not the answer, a few maybe but it has to be the right type of player with the right attitude. Yes PL got £40 m but just look at the merry go round of players at this club and you can see we need stability and a settled squad. even with the bargain basement players they have sell on fees and we will not loose too much money on them if we fail, We have to believe that the club and PL in particular know what they are doing and things will improve. Can we see improvement - a bit surely. 2 Seasons ago we were a joke club everybody put down as relegation fodder and we were seen as irrelevant. not now, tv pundits and those in the know see us as one to watch out for. If they can see it why can't we. No matter what happens we have to give it time, things at the club have to happen before we can get back to where we belong, financial constraints are there for a reason whether we like it or not, we have done the chopping and changing of manager and seen the results, PL is doing his best with his hands tied, I for one would like to give him the opportunity to show what he can do when the ties come off, in my opinion he has earned the right the way he has steadied us from the freefall we were in. we have a new squad, a new ethos, and it is very early days. yes things go wrong with 1 step forward and 2 back, the main thing is though that the players are young and will improve, hopefully we hit our basement and are now rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I'd love to believe that the club know what they're doing, but unfortunately there's too much evidence that they don't. And I think that Lambert is another limited, British manager very much in the style of O'Neill. I'd much rather have a Rodgers/Martinez/Laudrup type who try to play proper football. The fact that Lambert seemingly HAD to buy a donkey like Kozak as back up for Benteke shows what his approach to the game is going to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 How much time are you prepared to wait for that development VillaCas? This season, next season or beyond that and what if those young players don't develop in the way that you hope they will? They will have to make way for a second batch to come in and we wait on another period of development and so on? It really doesn't matter how long we're prepared to wait does it? This is what's happening and it's not due to change anytime soon. My take on the "plan" is that Lambert is "making do" with bargain buys at the moment and that the purse strings will be loosened slightly going forward allowing better players to come in. Given these restrictions I can't identify anyone better than Lambert who would be a realistic option to take the job on. I beleive that the best we can hope for under these circumstances would eventually be 7th place - I don't like that but there it is The problem is VillaCas that through each developing period those players who shine most will be cherry picked while we try to develop a better team and consequently we'll be caught in a vicious circle of development rather than creating a better balanced side of experienced quality and youth which would give us a more solid base to build from. I agree - although its always been this way - Yorke, Young etc etc. What do you propose that would change this? Of course that experienced quality comes at a premium but Lerner won't have too many excuses left come next summer when we are finally rid of most of 'the bomb squad and one would hope that we'll see a more balanced transfer policy in two windows time rather than being drip fed potential. Hopefully better players will arrive - It's a strange thing now supporting a team outside the top 6, personally I think we are resigned to a constant cycle of rebuilding, asset-striping, rising and falling around mid-table. I hate it but that is what modern football has become and unless an rich sugar-daddy arrives we, like the majority of clubs are stuck with it. It actually does matter 'how long we're prepared to wait' to the fan base though VillaCas. There has to come a point where acceptance of patience is replaced by expectancy. I tend to think that is part of the problem why we have underachieved for so long due to the continual apathy of our fan base. We in general are less demanding than we should be and believe the rhetoric coming from the club that it's a five year plan or we're in another rebuilding process more in hope than actual belief that this club is going to turn the corner. Do you actually believe that our current squad after the period of development you speak off is going to be good enough for top six? If you do then fair play but i feel the current crop may have hit their ceiling of ability already and what we see now is what we'll get for the foreseeable future until they are replaced which leads me to your second question. Lets throw Barry and Milner into the equation with the players you have already chosen (Yorke and Young). Why did Barry stay for an extra season. He wanted to see if we could qualify for the CL and probably looked beyond that to see the ambition of the club. Players at any club although they will always deny it in public, will be aware of how the club is going to be run in the present and in the future and i'm in no doubt that both Barry and Milner and indeed Yorke and Young left our club on the basis of a lack of ambition. They knew they weren't going to win any trophies with us or be a member of a team that was going to compete for a sustained period of success and unfortunately they have been proven right! The way to get around that is to show ambition by buying the right players. Player's who your better players at the club will want to stay and play with because they will know the club is showing ambition by bringing quality to the club and will at least be able to challenge within the top six and of course you will have to pay wages in line with the quality you sign. I've seen many posters coming back with but we've already tried that with MON and it didn't work. It didn't work due to spunking millions on the wrong players who spent their time on the bench and that choice of player was down to the manager and not the actual method or policy used! Your last point concerning being in a cycle is one i have already agreed with but you can break out of that cycle by investing well in the right type of players at both ends of the spectrum (youth & experience) rather than just one as Everton have already proven to create the right type of balance in your team. Of course you need an astute manager and a chairman who will back that astute manager when the right players become available to build that balance. Currently we may or may not have the right manager as for me he has gone too far in one direction and not enough in the other for whatever the reason, but at the moment i don't think i'm alone in thinking that we certainly don't have the right chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 FWIW I agree with Lambo in his press conference. I'm still seeing progress being made from last season. Are the unhappy few simply expecting to much too soon? Too much too soon? This will be our 4th consecutive season of struggle. When has that ever happened in the last 35 - 40 years? Why have we as a fan base become so passive and accept such crap when we have never done before? Lerner must have released some kind of brainwashing drugs to the masses at Villa Park while no one was looking. I've never known Villa fans to be so apathetic as this. We used to demand a certain standard at Villa but now we sit back and accept the scraps Lerner throws at us like nodding dogs. Grow a pair for f#ck sake and show some passion in the club! Well said. In the 14 premiership years before Lerner we finished outside the top 8 5 times. We're now probably going to do that for the 4th time in a row. Why is it so acceptable now? It's ridiculous. Before Lerner there was no Chelsea (well after 2003) no Manchester City, Arsenal did not have a 60,000 stadium, and Spurs were poorly run. Add to the mix of Manchester United until this season being the top side and Liverpool now with owners prepared to spend huge amounts (and expand Anfield) we have gone down the pecking order. We are not a superclub with huge support, we have a owner now who wants to be more modest on spending, and the football clubs in London are reflecting the economic advantage of being based in the capital. I think we just have to accept it, its modern football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 The problem is that his first year signings most of them paid off quite quickly but this summers signings he hasn't had the same success. Bacuna yes and maybe Luna have been a success so far but the others are taking more time. You say that most of them paid off quite quickly but this time last year Benteke hadn't really pulled up many trees and Westwood had only just begun to feature. It also wasn't until the beginning of this season that KEA started to look decent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Can't wait to see the swing in tone of this thread if we happen to win today 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyPowers Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I'd love to believe that the club know what they're doing, but unfortunately there's too much evidence that they don't. And I think that Lambert is another limited, British manager very much in the style of O'Neill. I'd much rather have a Rodgers/Martinez/Laudrup type who try to play proper football. The fact that Lambert seemingly HAD to buy a donkey like Kozak as back up for Benteke shows what his approach to the game is going to be. I posted something similar a few pages back. I'm not seeing any progression in the style of football especially at home when the opposition concedes territory and time on the ball. I'd much prefer to have a British manager but it looks inevitable that a more continental-minded manager is the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 (edited) FWIW I agree with Lambo in his press conference. I'm still seeing progress being made from last season. Are the unhappy few simply expecting to much too soon? Too much too soon? This will be our 4th consecutive season of struggle. When has that ever happened in the last 35 - 40 years? Why have we as a fan base become so passive and accept such crap when we have never done before? Lerner must have released some kind of brainwashing drugs to the masses at Villa Park while no one was looking. I've never known Villa fans to be so apathetic as this. We used to demand a certain standard at Villa but now we sit back and accept the scraps Lerner throws at us like nodding dogs. Grow a pair for f#ck sake and show some passion in the club! Yes you say 4 years if mediocrity. So why is it Lambert getting the stick now. He's 1 year in. Surely he deserves more time. Edited November 2, 2013 by VillaGoMarching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I can see the home form improving in the coming months, we were unlucky against Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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