Morpheus Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Trouble with that is that we need to get rid of the 'experienced' players we still have before we can buy any more experienced but cheaper value for money players. That is the point we are still at. It is called a sacrifice. i.e Darren Bent leaving to free up wages and a fee to be able to buy better 'experienced' players at better value i.e Ron Vlaar. . Out of interest Morph are you talking of experienced players like Charlie Adam? Djribl Cisse? Dimatar Berbatov? Joleon Lescott? Joey Barton? Micheal Carrick? Anton Ferdinand? etc. If not can you elaborate the type of experience players you refer to. . I've already mentioned them a million times here and again today. I have never mentioned either Carrick or Barton this season. And again if we had to sell our experienced players to fund more why did we put in a bid for Dempsey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 4, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2013 Diame, Berbatov and Adam. Keeping Cuellar and partnering him with Vlaar. Downing back from plop to supply either Bent/Benteke for a start. Ever heard of a transfer budget and wage budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) I've already mentioned them a million times here and again today. I have never mentioned either Carrick or Barton this season. I know you didn't but they fall into the same field. The point is this type of experience is not the sort that would benefit Villa for 'the long haul' and purely just a costly short term fix. It is a no go scenario with the types of players you wish for. I think you might enjoy following QPR more as they do that sort of thing there just on an advice front for you to consider maybe? And again if we had to sell our experienced players to fund more why did we put in a bid for Dempsey? I don't know mate as I was not in the board room at the time it happened. . Edited January 4, 2013 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Cuellar just isn't that good these days. He never was any good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Ever heard of a transfer budget and wage budget? Like everyone else connected with the club yes i have heard about that. Diame was on a free so no transfer fee. Wages would have been higher than KEA for instance but between both players who would you rather have in the team? Adam cost between 3.5m to 5m. Wages probably 40 grand per week at Stoke but who would you rather have in our team, Bannan or Adam? Berbatov i have always acknowledged would have been high in wages yet you would expect to pay top wages for a player of his quality. You would then have to factor in who has been released and who is going to leave in the summer plus who we have sold and the reduction in those wages for the club. Edited January 4, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) I know you didn't but they fall into the same field. The point is this type of experience is not the sort that would benefit Villa for 'the long haul' and purely just a costly short term fix. It is a no go scenario with the types of players you wish for. I think you might enjoy following QPR more as they do that sort of thing there just on an advice front for you to consider maybe? I don't know mate as I was not in the board room at the time it happened. . We've had this debate before AvfcRigo82 and rather than going around in the proverbial circle again i will ask you one question. With our present team, when do you forsee stability for the club in that we won't be struggling continually? Edited January 4, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 4, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2013 I've previously responded to you about all these players, in fact plenty of people have yet here we are yet again. I'm not going to bother again. If you really believe that Lambert had a transfer budget and wage budget sufficient to sign the likes of Berbatov then there is little point debating with you. As for the Bannan or Adam comment, that is utterly pointless as nobody tried to take Bannan off our hands in the summer sadly. It is obvious that Lambert had a limited budget for wages and transfers this summer and tried to spread the money as wide as he could and with a view to far more than just this season. One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in is that we've spent too much money on players past their best the wrong side of 27 and for whom we get nothing for a few years later. Signing players like those you are obsessed with talking about might have made us better this season but it would have been short term and I don't believe the club can afford to work on a short term basis wasting millions year after year. Neither do I think it was even an option for him to sign those sort of players in the first place. You don't like Lambert, you wanted him sacked and probably still do. Fine we get it, we also get which players you think he would have been better signing but do we have to go round and round and round in circles talking about them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 With our present team, when do you forsee stability for the club in that we won't be struggling continually? Oh no, here comes the Stability Police again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 He never was any good. I disagree. Played in his best position for me he was solid and would have been at the moment better than either Baker or Clark at the centre of our defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I've previously responded to you about all these players, in fact plenty of people have yet here we are yet again. I'm not going to bother again. If you really believe that Lambert had a transfer budget and wage budget sufficient to sign the likes of Berbatov then there is little point debating with you. As for the Bannan or Adam comment, that is utterly pointless as nobody tried to take Bannan off our hands in the summer sadly. It is obvious that Lambert had a limited budget for wages and transfers this summer and tried to spread the money as wide as he could and with a view to far more than just this season. One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in is that we've spent too much money on players past their best the wrong side of 27 and for whom we get nothing for a few years later. Signing players like those you are obsessed with talking about might have made us better this season but it would have been short term and I don't believe the club can afford to work on a short term basis wasting millions year after year. Neither do I think it was even an option for him to sign those sort of players in the first place. You don't like Lambert, you wanted him sacked and probably still do. Fine we get it, we also get which players you think he would have been better signing but do we have to go round and round and round in circles talking about them? Dear Jim (take your had off my knee), please fix it for me to be able to like a MOD post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Any examples? Trouble with that is that we need to get rid of the 'experienced' players we still have before we can buy any more experienced but cheaper value for money players. That is the point we are still at. It is called a sacrifice. i.e Darren Bent leaving to free up wages and a fee to be able to buy better 'experienced' players at better value i.e Ron Vlaar. . Out of interest Morph are you talking of experienced players like Charlie Adam? Djribl Cisse? Dimatar Berbatov? Joleon Lescott? Joey Barton? Micheal Carrick? Anton Ferdinand? etc. If not can you elaborate the type of experience players you refer to. . I've previously responded to you about all these players, in fact plenty of people have yet here we are yet again. I'm not going to bother again. If you really believe that Lambert had a transfer budget and wage budget sufficient to sign the likes of Berbatov then there is little point debating with you. As for the Bannan or Adam comment, that is utterly pointless as nobody tried to take Bannan off our hands in the summer sadly. It is obvious that Lambert had a limited budget for wages and transfers this summer and tried to spread the money as wide as he could and with a view to far more than just this season. One of the reasons we are in the mess we are in is that we've spent too much money on players past their best the wrong side of 27 and for whom we get nothing for a few years later. Signing players like those you are obsessed with talking about might have made us better this season but it would have been short term and I don't believe the club can afford to work on a short term basis wasting millions year after year. Neither do I think it was even an option for him to sign those sort of players in the first place. You don't like Lambert, you wanted him sacked and probably still do. Fine we get it, we also get which players you think he would have been better signing but do we have to go round and round and round in circles talking about them? As you can see, i was asked for examples of whom i was referring to, not once but twice, but in future, i will ignore those particular questions which seem to bore you. Edited January 4, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 4, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2013 As you can see, i was asked for examples of whom i was referring to, not once but twice, but in future, i will ignore those particular questions which seem to bore you. Yes you were but only in response to your repeating the same thing over and over about how he should have signed experienced players. I think the talk about Berbatov Adam is boring far more people than just me especially in a thread about our manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Regardless of all the twaddle filling this thread, I still believe lambert is our best option to rebuild us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 4, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2013 Regardless of all the twaddle filling this thread, I still believe lambert is our best option to rebuild us. Hallelujah! One sentence. More sense that many much longer posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Don't think I've argued against that. What you've described is a manager rotating a few players taking both competitions as serious as each other. MON chose one over the other when he picked his Moscow team and I said I'd find it interesting to see the response towards lambert if he does the same. Well Houllier did the same thing in FA Cup and he got slaughtered too. Maybe as thye both got poor results in the following Premier League games is why they were moaned at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hallelujah! One sentence. More sense that many much longer posts. Is that favouritism from a mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hallelujah! One sentence. More sense that many much longer posts. But, but...there isn't any sense contained therein. Just a rather forlorn hope that Lambert might yet come good, despite there being no evidence whatsoever that he's capable of turning things round. He's on a par with Owen Coyle to be honest, nothing more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I don't think that Lambert is doing particularly great at the moment but then again who else could have come in and don't much better with a £20m summer transfer budget? You can argue all day about him buying mainly kids from lower leagues but how do we know that another manager wouldn't have come here and done the same with so little to spend? Or, maybe another manager would have come in and bought 4 x £5m players that would have turned out to be like Harewood or Collins etc. Lambert has done what he thinks best for us in the long term. The risk with that is us, the fans. Lerner hasn't got a clue about running this club and seems to let everyone else around him do it all for him. We wanted McLeish out and he went. We (the majority) wanted Lambert in and he got him in. Lambert has a long term plan for the club but of we do go down and the fans turn on him, Lerner might just swing the axe and go with the majority again. Which, in my opinion, would be bad for the club. If Lambert wants to stay through thick and thin we should stick by him through thick and thin and hope that his plan for our future comes to fruition. He didn't do too bad for Norwich! And, let's face it, in 4-5 years time we will be much better off financially and may be in a much better position to have a go at the top four again. Lambert will make mistakes from time to time but he's only human so he's just like the rest of us in our jobs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Lambert has a long term plan for the club. Sorry to just slice a small section of your post to comment on but this piece intrigued me. Now forgive me for being a bit cynical but he only joined in June and probably didn't even know that he was going to be Villa manager until then so there is a good chance that he didn't have a 'long term' plan for us at all and that the 'long term' plan is actually that of Randy Lerner's and Paul Lambert accepted to roll with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy_Evergo Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I don't know if it's his style or manner but I just watched the Ipswich press conference on AVTV and I was a bit disappointed. When asked about the January window, he said that he always said that January was a hard window and that he wouldn't be getting players in for the sake of it. He went on to say that "we will wait and see" what we can do. It's not as though the transfer window was announced out of the blue. Surely the club needs a plan before the 1st January and we should not be adopting a reactive 'wait and see' approach, especially in our perilous position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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