Manager Paul Lambert

[AvfcRigo82]

The choice of players you mention there were purchased by whom?

You target an area of my debate which is basically down to choice of player and who chooses those players?

The muppet we got from the sty signed them? so what?

The choices of players I mentioned are examples who arrived with having tonnes of "premier league experience" imo.

The fact buying experienced players hasn't worked for us previously is due to the choice of player, not that they were experienced and this point you readily ignore time and time again.

No one is ignoring anything. You are the one who is preaching about the players we "should have signed" & "experience" etc.

I don't see what difference a choice of player is made with your argument. Whether it's Charles N'Zogbia, Charlie Adam or Charlie fecking Brown they are all examples of players we should have signed and have signed that have the "experience" your craving.

The general concensus is that we have done the whole signings with PL experience with MON and the 2 others and Randy has had his fingers severely burned which is why now we are taking this approach to the types of players we are now signing instead.

No-one is saying we should buy more players such as N'Zogbia, Hutton, Beye and Warnock.

What i am saying is that we employ the right manager who can then buy the right experienced player.

Are you sure? I recall you have your own dream team of players who fit into the same bracket as them players.

It does not matter what manager is here mate. Whether it is Paul Lambert, Paul Jewell, Jose Mourinho whoever. -It is the budgets they are given from the top to spend on players.

Randy Lerner has just about recovered from the events of the last 3 managers antics in the transfer markets.

20m does not get you alot for your money signing players from PL teams these days and they command high wages and signing on fee's aswell as other bumflufferies.

What I understand your saying is that we should have hired candle face and that he used the 20m instead on signing Charlie Adam and Dimitar Berbatov and we would be in the land of milk and honey right now?

I would dread to think if we had done that what position we would be in right now! My money is on being not much further off the position we are in right now but instead of building foundations of a new team instead just adding more deadwood to an already rotting structure that is costing millions already.

Are you saying to me that if Lambert had purchased the players that i have suggested those players wouldn't have had an instant impact on our fortunes in the league and not just for this season either which seems to be a particular gripe of yours?

Well it is not really a gripe but more stupidity really. You have mentioned about 8 players which to me would have cost us around 40-50m in total maybe in fee's alone, the wage bill would again be massive with there high wages demands, they are all over the age of 27 and it is highly unlikely we will make any money on them when it comes to selling them in there 30's. Is there also a gaurentee that they will bust a gut for us during matches? I doubt it.

I think yes for the short term it would work for us and we might finnish in the top 10 a couple of seasons at most but then what happens when they all need replaced/contracts expiring etc.?

Go and blow another 50/60m on replacing them all without hardly any money coming in of the players we will then by trying to replace.

It is no way to run a football club/business no matter how rich you are!

We have this situation already in the likes of Warnock, Hutton, Dunne, Given, N'Zogbia, Bent, Ireland still here and do you think we will get anywhere near anything for them when we come to sell them compared to what we paid for them and the wages wasted on them? - Hell no! To be honest we have not had much of a run for our money with most of them anyway imo!

Where are we at the moment with Lambert's policy? Has the football been of an acceptable standard? Have the results been acceptable?

In a very encouraging position with regards to his eagerness to give everyone a chance and his astute signings he has mostly made yes.

I would say 4 of his 8 signings he has made have definately doubled in value what we paid for them in the space of 6 months which is also encouraging and a sign in the direction this club is now going which I said a few months back of which I call it 'The Arsene Wenger philosophy'.

The football being played in the last few months has been encouraging to watch come together too and clear for all to see a few more tweaks in January to the squad could see us start our climb after a few results start to come our way.

The results in December shocked me and in my view is PL showing RL that we definately need to invest another good 20m to strengthen the squad with the similar players already purchased - not to blow on 2 more over rated PL has beens that you appear to be wanting.

My signature clearly displays that I realise what is going on here and that it was going to be a tough Nov/Dec. I predicted we would only get 9 points in these 2 months and we got 11 so pretty bang on if you ask me and no real shock or suprise it was not more than that tbh. The thing that did shock me was the amount of goals conceeded in the latter month but other than that we are ticking along and building nicely.

If this is the new dawn you are talking about then i don't want any part of struggling towards the bottom of the table and being hammered by teams we once were able to compete with.

Well that's what happens in business, err I mean football when you start from scratch again. Rough with the smooth and all that.

This new dawn also see's us potentially on our way to a cup final, in the 4th round of another cup - do you not want to be part of that either?

.

[nick76]

The muppet we got from the sty signed them? so what?

The choices of players I mentioned are examples who arrived with having tonnes of "premier league experience" imo.

No one is ignoring anything. You are the one who is preaching about the players we "should have signed" & "experience" etc.

I don't see what difference a choice of player is made with your argument. Whether it's Charles N'Zogbia, Charlie Adam or Charlie fecking Brown they are all examples of players we should have signed and have signed that have the "experience" your craving.

The general concensus is that we have done the whole signings with PL experience with MON and the 2 others and Randy has had his fingers severely burned which is why now we are taking this approach to the types of players we are now signing instead.

Are you sure? I recall you have your own dream team of players who fit into the same bracket as them players.

It does not matter what manager is here mate. Whether it is Paul Lambert, Paul Jewell, Jose Mourinho whoever. -It is the budgets they are given from the top to spend on players.

Randy Lerner has just about recovered from the events of the last 3 managers antics in the transfer markets.

20m does not get you alot for your money signing players from PL teams these days and they command high wages and signing on fee's aswell as other bumflufferies.

What I understand your saying is that we should have hired candle face and that he used the 20m instead on signing Charlie Adam and Dimitar Berbatov and we would be in the land of milk and honey right now?

I would dread to think if we had done that what position we would be in right now! My money is on being not much further off the position we are in right now but instead of building foundations of a new team instead just adding more deadwood to an already rotting structure that is costing millions already.

Well it is not really a gripe but more stupidity really. You have mentioned about 8 players which to me would have cost us around 40-50m in total maybe in fee's alone, the wage bill would again be massive with there high wages demands, they are all over the age of 27 and it is highly unlikely we will make any money on them when it comes to selling them in there 30's. Is there also a gaurentee that they will bust a gut for us during matches? I doubt it.

I think yes for the short term it would work for us and we might finnish in the top 10 a couple of seasons at most but then what happens when they all need replaced/contracts expiring etc.?

Go and blow another 50/60m on replacing them all without hardly any money coming in of the players we will then by trying to replace.

It is no way to run a football club/business no matter how rich you are!

We have this situation already in the likes of Warnock, Hutton, Dunne, Given, N'Zogbia, Bent, Ireland still here and do you think we will get anywhere near anything for them when we come to sell them compared to what we paid for them and the wages wasted on them? - Hell no! To be honest we have not had much of a run for our money with most of them anyway imo!

In a very encouraging position with regards to his eagerness to give everyone a chance and his astute signings he has mostly made yes.

I would say 4 of his 8 signings he has made have definately doubled in value what we paid for them in the space of 6 months which is also encouraging and a sign in the direction this club is now going which I said a few months back of which I call it 'The Arsene Wenger philosophy'.

The football being played in the last few months has been encouraging to watch come together too and clear for all to see a few more tweaks in January to the squad could see us start our climb after a few results start to come our way.

The results in December shocked me and in my view is PL showing RL that we definately need to invest another good 20m to strengthen the squad with the similar players already purchased - not to blow on 2 more over rated PL has beens that you appear to be wanting.

My signature clearly displays that I realise what is going on here and that it was going to be a tough Nov/Dec. I predicted we would only get 9 points in these 2 months and we got 11 so pretty bang on if you ask me and no real shock or suprise it was not more than that tbh. The thing that did shock me was the amount of goals conceeded in the latter month but other than that we are ticking along and building nicely.

Well that's what happens in business, err I mean football when you start from scratch again. Rough with the smooth and all that.

This new dawn also see's us potentially on our way to a cup final, in the 4th round of another cup - do you not want to be part of that either?

.

great post

[VillaCas]

Where are we at the moment with Lambert's policy? Has the football been of an acceptable standard? Have the results been acceptable?

If this is the new dawn you are talking about then i don't want any part of struggling towards the bottom of the table and being hammered by teams we once were able to compete with.

Lambert's "policy" is driven by the funds available for fees and more importantly for wages

Some of the football has been of an "acceptable standard" and some hasn't. Some of the results have been of an "acceptable standard" and some haven't. That's the way of it when you are building something from the foundations up - not everything is going to go right straightaway. I along with the majority have got patience - you obviously have not

We are on a journey - with the exception of three very poor results over Xmas - we have seen progress. If we factor in the excellent cup performances there is lots to be positive about. We are not competive with the top sides at the moment but we are working hard to put that right - I think it will take 18-24 months to get there

I can see what PL is trying to do and I buy into it. I'm in it for the long haul but if you "don't want any part of it" then that is your perogative

[LondonLax]

It seems a bit reckless to tear down the foundations and start again from scratch if you know you don't have the funds to rebuild properly?

[Morpheus]

The muppet we got from the sty signed them? so what?

The choices of players I mentioned are examples who arrived with having tonnes of "premier league experience" imo.

No one is ignoring anything. You are the one who is preaching about the players we "should have signed" & "experience" etc.

I don't see what difference a choice of player is made with your argument. Whether it's Charles N'Zogbia, Charlie Adam or Charlie fecking Brown they are all examples of players we should have signed and have signed that have the "experience" your craving.

The general concensus is that we have done the whole signings with PL experience with MON and the 2 others and Randy has had his fingers severely burned which is why now we are taking this approach to the types of players we are now signing instead.

Are you sure? I recall you have your own dream team of players who fit into the same bracket as them players.

It does not matter what manager is here mate. Whether it is Paul Lambert, Paul Jewell, Jose Mourinho whoever. -It is the budgets they are given from the top to spend on players.

Randy Lerner has just about recovered from the events of the last 3 managers antics in the transfer markets.

20m does not get you alot for your money signing players from PL teams these days and they command high wages and signing on fee's aswell as other bumflufferies.

What I understand your saying is that we should have hired candle face and that he used the 20m instead on signing Charlie Adam and Dimitar Berbatov and we would be in the land of milk and honey right now?

I would dread to think if we had done that what position we would be in right now! My money is on being not much further off the position we are in right now but instead of building foundations of a new team instead just adding more deadwood to an already rotting structure that is costing millions already.

Well it is not really a gripe but more stupidity really. You have mentioned about 8 players which to me would have cost us around 40-50m in total maybe in fee's alone, the wage bill would again be massive with there high wages demands, they are all over the age of 27 and it is highly unlikely we will make any money on them when it comes to selling them in there 30's. Is there also a gaurentee that they will bust a gut for us during matches? I doubt it.

I think yes for the short term it would work for us and we might finnish in the top 10 a couple of seasons at most but then what happens when they all need replaced/contracts expiring etc.?

Go and blow another 50/60m on replacing them all without hardly any money coming in of the players we will then by trying to replace.

It is no way to run a football club/business no matter how rich you are!

We have this situation already in the likes of Warnock, Hutton, Dunne, Given, N'Zogbia, Bent, Ireland still here and do you think we will get anywhere near anything for them when we come to sell them compared to what we paid for them and the wages wasted on them? - Hell no! To be honest we have not had much of a run for our money with most of them anyway imo!

In a very encouraging position with regards to his eagerness to give everyone a chance and his astute signings he has mostly made yes.

I would say 4 of his 8 signings he has made have definately doubled in value what we paid for them in the space of 6 months which is also encouraging and a sign in the direction this club is now going which I said a few months back of which I call it 'The Arsene Wenger philosophy'.

The football being played in the last few months has been encouraging to watch come together too and clear for all to see a few more tweaks in January to the squad could see us start our climb after a few results start to come our way.

The results in December shocked me and in my view is PL showing RL that we definately need to invest another good 20m to strengthen the squad with the similar players already purchased - not to blow on 2 more over rated PL has beens that you appear to be wanting.

My signature clearly displays that I realise what is going on here and that it was going to be a tough Nov/Dec. I predicted we would only get 9 points in these 2 months and we got 11 so pretty bang on if you ask me and no real shock or suprise it was not more than that tbh. The thing that did shock me was the amount of goals conceeded in the latter month but other than that we are ticking along and building nicely.

Well that's what happens in business, err I mean football when you start from scratch again. Rough with the smooth and all that.

This new dawn also see's us potentially on our way to a cup final, in the 4th round of another cup - do you not want to be part of that either?

.

The point i was making concerning who purchased the players you mentioned was in relation to a poor manager making the wrong choice of player rather than it being attributed to just experience.

At least this time you have tried to answer that by stating there is no difference between N'Zogbia and Adam. Actually there is a difference and that difference is quality. Adam has already shown at Stoke that quality while KEA has shown us what?

You also go on to say that Lerner has had his fingers severly burned by signing experienced players yet we put in a bid for Dempsey. Dempsey you would have to agree is an experienced Premiership player is he not. The difference is quality! Lerner got his fingers burnt not by purchasing experienced players but by employing poor managers who purchased the wrong type of experience which lacked quality!

You again mention this 20m budget and how Lambert's hands were tied by that budget yet after most of our transfer business was done we put in a bid for Dempsey. Lambert has already admitted that he didn't spend all of his budget so he wasn't exactly tied to 17m-20m was he? Wouldn't Dempsey have commanded high wages?

Of the players i have mentioned where have i said we would be in 'the land of milk and honey.' This is yet another statement by you used to enhance your debate rather than quote what i have said. I have continually stated that purchasing the players i have mentioned wouldn't have had us in the bottom five of the table and we wouldn't be struggling in the way that we are now.

I also see that you have yet again excluded Diame another player that i put forward. Are you going to put that down to memory loss again or, have you just excluded him because it doesn't serve your debate as i had originally suspected?

To correct you again i have mentioned four players. Berbatov, Diame, Adam and Olsson. One was on a free. One wouldn't have cost much more than KEA and another from Blackburn who would have cost no more than 4m-5m. Berbatov's fee was 5m plus his wages which i have already admitted would have been high but then again so would Dempsey's wages who we tried to buy. Where's the 40m-50m you have quoted?

Rather than going through every one of Lambert's signings, simple question. Have they improved our weaknesses? You could probably go into the conference league and with a little nous pick up several players who would improve in value but would they improve our team?

Our defense is probably worse than before Lambert arrived and our midfield, well, what are the majority of posters on here still crying out for?

In Benteke he has found a good player there and it will be interesting to see whether his dip in form is due to fatique or Premiership defences working him out? If he is as good as everyone says he is then he should be able to rise above that. We shall see?

The football in the last couple of months has been encouraging has it. Rather than state what has already been stated before i would just say that you are very easily pleased.

Finally you mention our run in the cup to justifiy your reasoning for a new dawn.

History has already shown that you can have success in cup competitions while still being relegated.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Morpheus

[Morpheus]

Lambert's "policy" is driven by the funds available for fees and more importantly for wages

I can see what PL is trying to do and I buy into it. I'm in it for the long haul but if you "don't want any part of it" then that is your perogative

So rises from the ashes of our season so far another readily made excuse for Lambert that 'Lambert's policy is driven by the funds available for fees and more importantly wages.'

To focus on what we do know.

He didn't spend all of his budget in the summer. Lambert has stated this as well as the chairman making funds available to sign more established Premiership stars which Lambert refused with the exception of the bid for Dempsey.

It was also Lambert's choice to pursue the youth policy. It certainly was not dictated by his budget. If his budget was so tight why didn't he pursue a loan policy?

Sorry 'VillaCas' but that excuse simply doesn't stand up which ever way you look at it.

[spiezels]

He's been tasked with getting the clubs wage bill down to just under £50 mill.

FACT

[VillaGoMarching]

This thread really isn't a lot of fun, heaven knows what'll happen if our hotch potch team go and win the league cup.

I know one thing, if we do pull off that feat. it'll only strengthen my belief that Lambert is the man for us.

[Morpheus]

He's been tasked with getting the clubs wage bill down to just under £50 mill.

FACT

You know this how?

[Morpheus]

This thread really isn't a lot of fun, heaven knows what'll happen if our hotch potch team go and win the league cup.

I know one thing, if we do pull off that feat. it'll only strengthen my belief that Lambert is the man for us.

No matter what happens in the league?

[spiezels]

Can't say exactly but trust me its a fact.

I also have nothing to gain from lying and I think it's an important factor that people should know about the job PL has to do.

Edited January 7, 2013 by spiezels

[Big_John_10]

This thread really isn't a lot of fun, heaven knows what'll happen if our hotch potch team go and win the league cup.

I know one thing, if we do pull off that feat. it'll only strengthen my belief that Lambert is the man for us.

What if we were then relegated?

[VillaCas]

It seems a bit reckless to tear down the foundations and start again from scratch if you know you don't have the funds to rebuild properly?

That would be the "foundations" that finished 16th last year would it?

[jim]

That would be the "foundations" that finished 16th last year would it?

Under a dire manager.

[VillaCas]

To correct you again i have mentioned four players. Berbatov, Diame, Adam and Olsson. One was on a free. One wouldn't have cost much more than KEA and another from Blackburn who would have cost no more than 4m-5m. Berbatov's fee was 5m plus his wages which i have already admitted would have been high but then again so would Dempsey's wages who we tried to buy. Where's the 40m-50m you have quoted?

FFS can you give it a rest about Berbatov et al. We get it - you want Berbatov as CF and Rednapp as manager

You actually have no idea what went on with Dempsey nor what budget PL has/had to spend

Real life doesn't work like Fantasy Football - you've absolutely no idea if we enquired about any player or if any player turned down the chance of joining us.

Also comparing KEA with Charlie Adam is a bit weak - choose the worst of PL's signings and compare him with a player that would have cost 4 times as much and would earn three times as much. I don't even think Adam is all that anyway

You stick with your Fantasy Football, I'll get behind the players who are actually here

[VillaCas]

Under a dire manager.

So under a decent manager Hutton, Warnock, Ireland, Zog etc would finish where?

Who have you got in mind - Rednapp I expect FFS

[VillaCas]

So rises from the ashes of our season so far another readily made excuse for Lambert that 'Lambert's policy is driven by the funds available for fees and more importantly wages.'

To focus on what we do know.

He didn't spend all of his budget in the summer. Lambert has stated this as well as the chairman making funds available to sign more established Premiership stars which Lambert refused with the exception of the bid for Dempsey.

It was also Lambert's choice to pursue the youth policy. It certainly was not dictated by his budget. If his budget was so tight why didn't he pursue a loan policy?

Sorry 'VillaCas' but that excuse simply doesn't stand up which ever way you look at it.

What nonsense

Where is it documented that Lambert had a much bigger budget to spend?

Where is it documented that he refused the funds to sign a number of established players?

Maybe he didn't persue a loan policy because he wants to build something more permanent not get the next Kyle Walker ready for Spurs or the next Jenas ready for the scrapheap

£18m for 8 players - if he had £50m to spend I imagine he would have spent differently

[LondonLax]

If he had made use of some of the players he cast aside he wouldn't have needed to buy 8 new players and could have concentrated £18m on key areas.

We could have used Cuellar or Collins over the Christmas period. Even Warnock would have been useful if Lambert had got him playing and back into his old form. Ireland and Bent are also players we have under used and even N'Zogbia can be made use of. Hutton I will agree there was little hope of getting anything from

I'm not saying these players are our future but not having options has cost us during our recent injury crisis.

Edited January 7, 2013 by LondonLax

[spiezels]

They had to go because of their wages.

[The_Lions_Roar]

If he had made use of some of the players he cast aside he wouldn't have needed to buy 8 new players and could have concentrated £18m on key areas.

We could have used Cuellar or Collins over the Christmas period. Even Warnock would have been useful if Lambert had got him playing and back into his old form. Ireland and Bent are also players we have under used and even N'Zogbia can be made use of. Hutton I will agree there was little hope of getting anything from

I'm not saying these players are our future but not having options has cost us during our recent injury crisis.

Is it really that hard to understand?