Popular Post darrenm Posted January 21, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2013 I can see exactly what Lambert's trying to do and I share his vision. He's trying to create a quick, dynamic, athletic team who can run quicker and think quicker than the opposition. A modern team who are free of the old fashioned constraints of big centre backs and heavy hoofers because that's how he sees the game changing. Small, quick, athletic players such as Delph, Lowton, Bennett are perfect examples of this. Even El Ahmadi fits this mould even though he doesn't seem to have settled yet. I think he wants a team who are able to quickly get in people's faces, then quickly turn defence into attack. I can see it start to work now and again, like a few moves in the first half against Albion yesterday. We used quick incisive passing and got into their area before they knew anything about it. The poor decision making and low quality finishing again stopped us going any further, but there were times we looked excellent. I expect he wants us to play football like El Ahmadi used to play with Feyenoord: If we can stay up this season by adding a couple of quality players, I'd love to see how he can get us playing more like this in future. If we blink now, we're back to square one. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 But it doesn't show it is played into the air any more often than other teams, just that Benteke challenges a lot for headers. Not having a go at you here John, and maybe this is me reacting to something I have noticed a lot over the last week or so (and why my ignore list has grown tremendously!), but it's just that frankly I'm pig sick of people who are fans of the club actually taking any opportunity at all to turn anything they can into a negative to have a go at the club. Like I say maybe I read into your comment more than is there but anything can be taken anyway you want really (glass half full or half empty) and this stat about Benteke in aerial duals can show anything. Rich, I am not looking to take sides here but the stat pack from our official club site said that the most successful pass combination in the game on Saturday was Guzan to Benteke. They have also recorded a large pass combo in previous games when I have looked at those stat packs in the past. I am not saying for one minute that it makes us a long ball team though! Personally, I just think it's a tactic that has developed since Lambert realised that we don't have the players capable of playing it around from the back into the midfield players. I do think that hitting it up to bentele is a good option though, especially if he is number one for winning aerial battles! If they didn't play to that strength people would be moaning about that as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 He's trying to create a quick, dynamic, athletic team who can run quicker and think quicker than the opposition. A modern team who are free of the old fashioned constraints of big centre backs and heavy hoofers because that's how he sees the game changing. We hoof the ball far too much and his fullback signings do this more than most. We have weak players all over the pitch. See brunts goal yesterday. Lowton easily out muscled, Westwood out muscled and Clark too weak to do anything about lukaku holding the ball up until brunt appeared. I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to because stats, results and performances don't back up this so called plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We have reverted to being a long ball team, but this certainly was not PL's plan. Early in the season there was a match, sorry cannot remember which one, where Given did not hit a single goal kick long. We tried to pass the ball and play up from the back, but we quickly realized the midfield could not play that way. Now we are doing what teams with awful midfields do, bypass them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to because stats, results and performances don't back up this so called plan. The plan is clearly there. The stats, results and performances suggest the plan is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We have reverted to being a long ball team, but this certainly was not PL's plan. Early in the season there was a match, sorry cannot remember which one, where Given did not hit a single goal kick long. We tried to pass the ball and play up from the back, but we quickly realized the midfield could not play that way. Now we are doing what teams with awful midfields do, bypass them. Average pass length Arsenal: 18m Swansea: 19m Chelsea: 19m Manchester City: 19m Wigan: 19m Liverpool: 19m Manchester Utd: 19m Southampton: 19m Fulham: 20m QPR: 20m Tottenham: 20m Aston Villa: 21m Everton: 21m Reading: 21m Stoke: 21m Sunderland: 21m WBA: 21m West Ham: 21m Newcastle: 22m Norwich: 22m Comparison: Barcelona 17m 17-18 m = Short passing team 19-20 = Mixed passing team 21-22 = Long passing team We are passing longer than we should be by at least 2 meters, on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We have to be more effective going forward as our midfield isnt good enough to control possession. Maybe PL was naiive in what he thought the quality of the squad was. However, if it means we get more results then I am all for it. I would love to be like Stoke right now if it meant we stay up. Obv it is not PL's long term plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Agreed right now I don't care what type of football we play as long as we get points on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Agreed right now I don't care what type of football we play as long as we get points on the board. We are passing long already so that implies we need to pass shorter and rely on the big ball up to Benteke less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Not sure I care how long the passes are as long as they are passes as opposed to hopeful punts upfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Not sure I care how long the passes are as long as they are passes as opposed to hopeful punts upfield. I suspect our defenders are making far many long passes than they should, compared to defenders in the better teams. Players like Clark, Lowton, Bennett should be giving possession to the midfielders, not kicking it long. In the great teams, long balls are made by the player in your team with the best passing skill: Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard, not Martin Skrtel or Branislav Ivanovic. I'm going to check the stats on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We play some very nice stuff in each game, and none of the goals against WBA were long ball. I don't think we can be labelled a long ball side. But saying that when you have a striker with the presence that Benteke has, it's silly not to hit it up to him, because he uses it well. He doesnt aimlessly flick on to nothing, he takes a touch and brings poeple into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Surely the plan, which, you say is "the right way to go" isn't so much Lambert's plan, as the Club's plan - you know RL/PF and PL all together? So in other words, the club's plan being the right one is down to Randy and both Pauls and not something which you (anyone) could credibly criticise them for? And if the plan is right, then the reason we're struggling must be due to the implementation....and the implementation is down to the manager at least as much, if not more than, more than the board? That seems to be the logical thrust of your comment, doesn't it? No I dont think so, as the logical thrust of your argument is why do we need a manager at all? For me the owner and his ceo have set the corporate direction / strategy of the business / club and the plan that Paul Lambert is implementing is his response to that corporate strategy, it is his plan at how to move the playing side of the business forward bearing in mind the corporate plan that the owner wants to see happening. I do not think the owner or his ceo have specifically set the playing side strategy, the manager will do that. Now you can debate the merits or not of that plan and the implementation of it to your heart's content. But that is how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We played quality football in the first half cause West Brom aloud us too, not necessarily cause we were the better side. Second half West Brom turned up the heat stopping us from playing our game, I dont think we played any worse, just Lambert had no answer for there change in tactics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We played quality football in the first half cause West Brom aloud us too, not necessarily cause we were the better side. Second half West Brom turned up the heat stopping us from playing our game, I dont think we played any worse, just Lambert had no answer for there change in tactics. I disagree - I think we played much worse. Benteke/Gabby weren't holding up the ball. The midfield was getting the ball to the strikers, it just didn't work. We gave them far too much space in the 2nd half for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteEndRob Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 For me, playing long balls to Benteke is useless unless he has someone to flick it onto eg Bent or Andi. Almost every time that the ball is smashed forward towards Benteke he is our furthest man forward. The only thing he can do is either try to knock it backwards or try to bring it down and hold off the defender. If he had someone further forward to try to flick it onto it would give him more options and probably more space because opposing defenders would be wary of someone running in behind. I hate that we often revert to playing long ball, but if we are going to then at least give Benteke as much help as possible when doing so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We played quality football in the first half cause West Brom aloud us too, not necessarily cause we were the better side. Second half West Brom turned up the heat stopping us from playing our game, I dont think we played any worse, just Lambert had no answer for there change in tactics. I felt we contained the game very well in the first half, the Baggies weren't really at the races, they definitely stepped it up in the second and we had no answer. The problem is that we don't have any leaders out there, we have players that bottle it, they just weren't confident with even a 2 goal lead and when they conceded the first it was obvious they were going to crumble. Point being I'm not entirely sure what Lambert could have done to change things, we just lack that tenacity and set of balls to see out a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Sick of people having a go at the club or sick of people having a to at Lambert? The club to be honest John, all aspects of it. Everything that happens or has been said recently I always see a negative spin. No doubt you, or actually others, may come back and say "ah but Richard you double standards bastard, you're always having a go at Lerner". And to some extent I could probably see that, but I would just counter that with - Not all the time, not as much recently as I have done and that is only me having a go at lerner over him specifically being crap at owning the club in the last 3 or 4 years. For me what I am now taling about is that I am pig sick of people picking up every little thing or stat and then truning it against the club, as if everything is there to be used as a stick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted January 21, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2013 The club to be honest John, all aspects of it. Everything that happens or has been said recently I always see a negative spin. No doubt you, or actually others, may come back and say "ah but Richard you double standards bastard, you're always having a go at Lerner". And to some extent I could probably see that, but I would just counter that with - Not all the time, not as much recently as I have done and that is only me having a go at lerner over him specifically being crap at owning the club in the last 3 or 4 years. For me what I am now taling about is that I am pig sick of people picking up every little thing or stat and then truning it against the club, as if everything is there to be used as a stick. It is getting rather tedious to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I find most things to do with the club rather tedious. At this moment in time I can see why there is a negative edge to people's posts. Some people aren't happy to stick with lambert no matter what. Some people don't think we're better off as a club with Lerner as owner. This has never been a board for just one sided opinions and I hope it doesn't become that. I'd also say i can't see many people twisting things to be negative. You don't have to twist what's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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