TRO Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 At the moment I am not 100% sure, The signing of lower league players whilst it looks bad is not really a major risk, in the old days we never had so many foreign players in the league and the Div 1 or premiership was full of British players, was it poor - no we were top of Europe at the time and had to be banned to stop our domination. Now a days where have all the British players gone? they are in the Championship as everybody thinks unless you are foreign then you are no good. Whilst I will agree there are some poor players who will not make it I can not believe that there are those that wont. We have to trust PL to cherry pick the right ones. I applaud this decision although I still like everybody have reservations. Yes there are some good foreign players but there is also some dross. As for having a go at our defense because we have young inexperienced players there, look at other teams and tell me they are better. Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea are all in Europe with the top players yet are there defenses impregnable, recent results show they are not that much better than us. the problem I think is our midfield, This is the area PL and the training staff will be working on, hopefully as we have young players they will learn fast and start improving, whilst we call for older experienced players I wonder if they can adapt to different thinking as well as the kids and if this is the reason PL will not buy them, I do not know the answer to this as I am not at the training ground every day so can only guess. Although the league position is bad and the performances under par I do believe that PL will get it right and we will start climbing the league, PL says to be patient as it is not a quick fix, we owe him the chance to get it right, I do know that swapping managers without giving them time is not the answer as we have found out in the past, yes it does take time to build a good side how long though do we give him, 12 games, 6 months, a season, or two years, Looking back at our history has there ever been a manager who had a limited squad, little money and has come into a team that are so split who instantly turned it round in the first season without spending big? We owe PL a chance to turn it round without the constant criticism, As for DB9 i can not say if PL is right as I do not know the facts behind his decision, I dont think though that it can be a little thing as PL needs to do well and is no fool, we have to believe the action he has taken is justified and support him. Time is essential, but like the Saunders reign you have to identify with gradual improvement.... of course there will be blips, but the overall needs to be tangible improvement. I like the manager and I believe he is on the right lines. I like his approach to tactics not letting the opposition know his position, he is far from stereo type. I think the game has changed from hitting on a tried and tested formula ( gradual improvemnt hasn't changed, its how you achieve it that has)it is far more dynamic today and you have to keep changing like a chameleon.. stay still and you will be picked off. I believe Lambert is well aware of that. This guy will be good for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Time is essential, but like the Saunders reign you have to identify with gradual improvement.... of course there will be blips, but the overall needs to be tangible improvement. I like the manager and I believe he is on the right lines. I like his approach to tactics not letting the opposition know his position, he is far from stereo type. I think the game has changed from hitting on a tried and tested formula ( gradual improvemnt hasn't changed, its how you achieve it that has)it is far more dynamic today and you have to keep changing like a chameleon.. stay still and you will be picked off. I believe Lambert is well aware of that. This guy will be good for us. Yeah most definately the case. Its good to see everyone getting a fair shout in the team and not just the same names picked week in week out despite how good or shite they play. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Yeah most definately the case. Its good to see everyone getting a fair shout in the team and not just the same names picked week in week out despite how good or shite they play. . Bent would probably argue that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 At the moment I am not 100% sure, The signing of lower league players whilst it looks bad is not really a major risk, in the old days we never had so many foreign players in the league and the Div 1 or premiership was full of British players, was it poor - no we were top of Europe at the time and had to be banned to stop our domination. Now a days where have all the British players gone? they are in the Championship as everybody thinks unless you are foreign then you are no good. Whilst I will agree there are some poor players who will not make it I can not believe that there are those that wont. We have to trust PL to cherry pick the right ones. I applaud this decision although I still like everybody have reservations. Yes there are some good foreign players but there is also some dross. As for having a go at our defense because we have young inexperienced players there, look at other teams and tell me they are better. Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea are all in Europe with the top players yet are there defenses impregnable, recent results show they are not that much better than us. the problem I think is our midfield, This is the area PL and the training staff will be working on, hopefully as we have young players they will learn fast and start improving, whilst we call for older experienced players I wonder if they can adapt to different thinking as well as the kids and if this is the reason PL will not buy them, I do not know the answer to this as I am not at the training ground every day so can only guess. Although the league position is bad and the performances under par I do believe that PL will get it right and we will start climbing the league, PL says to be patient as it is not a quick fix, we owe him the chance to get it right, I do know that swapping managers without giving them time is not the answer as we have found out in the past, yes it does take time to build a good side how long though do we give him, 12 games, 6 months, a season, or two years, Looking back at our history has there ever been a manager who had a limited squad, little money and has come into a team that are so split who instantly turned it round in the first season without spending big? We owe PL a chance to turn it round without the constant criticism, As for DB9 i can not say if PL is right as I do not know the facts behind his decision, I dont think though that it can be a little thing as PL needs to do well and is no fool, we have to believe the action he has taken is justified and support him. I like Lambert. But your point that it takes time to turn things around doesn't bear close scrutiny. Brian Little John Gregory Ron Atkinson All took over struggling sides - but turned things around fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8pints Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I like Lambert. But your point that it takes time to turn things around doesn't bear close scrutiny. Brian Little John Gregory Ron Atkinson All took over struggling sides - but turned things around fairly quickly. I see what you're saying. But I wonder if Lambert is trying to build deeper foundations than those managers did. Especially Atkinson who bought players just over the hill that made a good team. But I don't think those managers had a lengthy lasting effect. Which is what I think Lambert is trying to do. I think those managers assembled good teams where as Lambert is trying to grow one, if you know what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I see what you're saying. But I wonder if Lambert is trying to build deeper foundations than those managers did. Especially Atkinson who bought players just over the hill that made a good team. But I don't think those managers had a lengthy lasting effect. Which is what I think Lambert is trying to do. I think those managers assembled good teams where as Lambert is trying to grow one, if you know what I mean? I think and hope you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I like Lambert. But your point that it takes time to turn things around doesn't bear close scrutiny. Brian Little John Gregory Ron Atkinson All took over struggling sides - but turned things around fairly quickly. I agree with that to some extent but it was also a completely different league then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'd also argue that Atkinson, Little and Gregory inherited better quality teams than what Lambert has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'd also argue that Atkinson, Little and Gregory inherited better quality teams than what Lambert has. I'm not sure anyone could argue otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'd also argue that Atkinson, Little and Gregory inherited better quality teams than what Lambert has. And Little took over from Atkinson, Gregory from Little! In addition BFR spent a fair bit on assembling a new team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 The point as said above is what I was trying to get at, the managers you list had a better base to go from and only needed a couple of players, In fairness to PL i dont think any one of us would argue that he inherited a squad with no moral, no confidence, no pattern of play, all the best players sold, and pretty much the youth team filling in for injuries and bans thats not even thinking about the mood of the fans and staff, He needs to replace pretty much most of the squad if the players we all believe will be leaving in the summer when the contracts expire and build from scratch. Obviously he could not do this all in 1 go so I believe we will see more signings in Jan and in the summer, These players no matter how good need time to settle which is why I asked how long we should give him realistically and fairly to turn it around. The reason I am unsure is because the longer we go on near the foot of the table the harder his job will be. I am not unsure about PL but on whether the method used will be accepted by the fans and wonder how long it will be before they start getting on his back, again this will make it harder for his plan to work. On another note we all have a go at at Nzogbia for having no end product as he runs down blind alleys, I remember laughing at a winger we used to have called Tony Daley who had a similar problem where he stopped running to cross the ball when he hit the advertisements at the foot of the holte end, he came good in the end and I have a feeling Nzogbia will too hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted December 4, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted December 4, 2012 ah tony daley, used to buy his bensons from the shop up the road from me when i was a kid.... he did turn out to be decent in the end, after a few years of just screaming down the line with his head down ignoring everyone else. hard to compare what BFR, little and gregory had to do to build a competitive team with what PL has undertaken though. the squad already is hugely different, it's been a massive change not only in personnel but work ethic, personality of the team and tactics. at least new arrivals in jan and summer will be picked to integrate in the new way of doing things and not have to settle in to a team that is trying to get to grips with absolutely everything from training to matchday tactics being different. as we progress the changes will be less traumatic for the squad as a whole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillakevBromsgrove Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 ah tony daley, used to buy his bensons from the shop up the road from me when i was a kid.... he did turn out to be decent in the end, after a few years of just screaming down the line with his head down ignoring everyone else. hard to compare what BFR, little and gregory had to do to build a competitive team with what PL has undertaken though. the squad already is hugely different, it's been a massive change not only in personnel but work ethic, personality of the team and tactics. at least new arrivals in jan and summer will be picked to integrate in the new way of doing things and not have to settle in to a team that is trying to get to grips with absolutely everything from training to matchday tactics being different. as we progress the changes will be less traumatic for the squad as a whole. Agree totally, I think though that as fans we should step back and look at the bigger picture, I expected us to struggle up till Christmas untill we started to click but not to the extent we have done though, I think part of the problem is looking at the teams doing ok and believing we should be better than them, people forget these teams have been together longer and will probably not improve much more than they have, most years after Christmas is when alot of these teams hit the wall and start to plummet, hopefully we will go in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 We had a really good team throughout the 90's. In all honesty we should never have finished outside the top 8 and on the 2(?) occasions we did there were mitigating circumstances. This squad is nowhere near that, it's bottom 8 and we all know it, I hope. I'd back us to win that mini league though and I'm intrigued as to what we'll do in January now he's had proper time to assess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copey11 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 We are 11th in the form guide despite playing, United, City and Arsenal in our last 6 games. We was getting over run in midfield so Lambert changed it and brought 3 fresh legs into the midfield and it worked One of our subs had only one leg, or worse, all of our subs had only one leg? No wonder we are getting these guys on the cheap. I don't like this cost cutting policy. Lambert out, Lerner out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I see what you're saying. But I wonder if Lambert is trying to build deeper foundations than those managers did. Especially Atkinson who bought players just over the hill that made a good team. But I don't think those managers had a lengthy lasting effect. Which is what I think Lambert is trying to do. I think those managers assembled good teams where as Lambert is trying to grow one, if you know what I mean? Like I said, I like Lambert - I like the players he has brought. I would be lying though if I said I am not a little disappointed in the results. However I don't buy into the long term plan stuff, unless there is some improvement in the short term. You can have a long term plan - but that doesn't mean you can't get decent results in the short term. The' young' bit is being overdone - only Nathan Baker and my weiman can be excused for being young. - What the current squad lack is PL games - and 'gelling' together. If Lambert is to be a success at villa - we have to be getting significantly better results pretty soon - .....All IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 One of our subs had only one leg, or worse, all of our subs had only one leg? No wonder we are getting these guys on the cheap. I don't like this cost cutting policy. Lambert out, Lerner out. LOL - thats quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 One of our subs had only one leg, or worse, all of our subs had only one leg? No wonder we are getting these guys on the cheap. I don't like this cost cutting policy. Lambert out, Lerner out. And if we go after established PL-players it's gonna cost us an arm AND a leg. Then we'd be even worse off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Bent would probably argue that point. He'd be wasting his breath if he did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 He'd be wasting his breath if he did For once we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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