Manager Paul Lambert

[BOF]

It's pretty obvious to me that the real reason O'Neill walked was because Lerner told him he was cutting his investment in the club, and he pretty much has ever since (Bent aside).

You can say that but unless you've heard it from the horse's mouth all you are doing is speculating based on what you see. We can all do that. Here's my speculation on the subject. Lerner watched the wage bill go beyond 100% of the club's turnover after 3 constant years of investment with very little in the way of sales. He told O'Neill continually that he had to bring the wages under control at some point because it was unsustainable at its current level. Transfer window after transfer window, Lerner to his own detriment continued to fund O'Neill's purchases beyond the point that was reasonable or sensible.

Then, during the window where we ended up selling James Milner to City, O'Neill had been told again that if he didn't bring the wage bill under control (read - sell some of the muck you bought, immediately fell out with and never played) that this time he couldn't justify giving him the Milner money to re-invest.

MON's reaction was probably fairly typical of him up to that point but much to MON's surprise Lerner kept his word this time and he kept the Milner money. MON('s ego) bided his time and walked away from the club at a point he judged would be the most damaging to Villa's fortunes.

Since then, through Houllier's tenure and McLeish's tenure we have tried to bring the running costs of the club back down to a level commensurate with our income. We are now at that point and we are now financially a much more healthy ship and more importantly for the fans we are in the process (can't stress that enough) of becoming much more healthy on the pitch too. Which is what I mean when I see the progress of relegation scrap last year to midtable this year with a young and growing set of players. We're not there yet. We're still a work in progress. It's a bloody big project, unique to the Premier League I'd say and it's a brave one because Lambert is almost doing it to the detriment of his own reputation as it is a high risk strategy.

Managers usually work to a 3 year plan. He isn't doing that. He's doing something that's much harder to accomplish and which requires the trust of a chairman who won't pull the trigger at the first sign of trouble. If this works it will be fantastic but we the fans need to give it a chance to work. We are better than we were last season and we'll be better next year than this. How much better I don't know, but it does no-one any good to assume year 3 will be like last year or this year when we're even seeing results improve from last year to now.

Unfortunately I appreciate there will always be a section of fans who want it now now now. Personally I just hope they remain in the minority and that the project is given the chance to come to fruition. I'm confident the powers that be will allow it to do so.

But I acknowledge that it certainly won't always be pretty along the way.

[StefanAVFC]

Top post BOF and said everything better than I could.

[darrenm]

 Where are Bof's sources for his "year 2 project" stuff?

 

 

I think I've figured it out. It's complicated, but bear with me.

 

Lambert took the job before the start of last season.

It's now the 2nd season.

[Kwan]

 

 Where are Bof's sources for his "year 2 project" stuff?

 

 

I think I've figured it out. It's complicated, but bear with me.

 

Lambert took the job before the start of last season.

It's now the 2nd season.

 

 

Top post. Incredibly well reasoned.

[Richard]

BOF,  much to agree with there especially in the terms of this project for Lambert.  It is long term he realises that and so does Lerner.  PL wont be going anywhere soon.

 

In terms of MON,  I have previously been a huge supporter of his.  This is tempered slightly recently,  my opinion has been "influenced" shall we say.

 

What I will say about his time here is that I am of the opinion that we were trying to get champions league within 4 years,  that that was the model we were operating and mon was given funding to do that in the knowlegde that at the end of year four we would either have CL money to fund us or we had to cut our cloth rapidly.  A high stakes gamble that he bought into but Randy put together.

 

MON decided that in order to try and make that as achievable as possible he had to try and attract players to the club who were experienced in the fight and with an ability at this level to get us there in 4 years.  Where we were as a club at the time meant that to get those players we had to pay above and beyond the requirement.  This is the route the manager chose.

 

MON does have a penchant for paying high wages as well

 

So for me I do blame MON for leaving as he knew the gamble and seem prepared to take the gamble but not lose his stake at the end.

 

I blame lerner for the initial gamble and then for compounding that by employing houllier (taken on as an experienced manager to try and work with the majority of what we had and experienced at CL level so Randy thought it would just take a manager of that level to get the CL level performances from the team - clearly not going to happen) and then Mcleish (then bought to scale down and keep the club going in the premier - or get us back to the premier- whilst the scaling back took place)

 

Lambert is here now to rebuild the club and IMO he is doing a great job,  cant think of someone more suited to the job or the club and long may he continue

[vandaq]

Good post BOF, same way I feel about this as well. 

[terrytini]

Well I nearly agree with everything Richard and BOF said - especially about PL's project here.

 

Dont think it is fair or there is any evidience that MOn deliberately walked out at a time to maximise damage - I think there was a 'last straw' from his point of view - and I did enjoy the MON years.

 

As regards a lot of fans turning on PL - I am sorry to say I think that is absolutely true.  But the crucial thing is that this says far far more about the mentality those 'fans' than it does about PL.  Hopefully he, the players, and the owner, are aware enough of the tendency amongst modern football fans to throw their toys out of their collective prams when they dont like something to treat it with the complete indifference it will deserve.  See Wenger, Moyes, Villas Boas, to name just three who have already suffred the baying at the moon response this season.

[briny_ear]

Hmmm. Maybe fans would be less prone to criticise Lambert if he would stop pretending everything about our performance is brilliant, excellent, etc., when it's clearly not.

[Kwan]

How he responds to the press is not to appease the fans

[LordSepulchrave]

Hmmm. Maybe fans would be less prone to criticise Lambert if he would stop pretending everything about our performance is brilliant, excellent, etc., when it's clearly not.

 

For all we know that is a man-management strategy though, so it may even be a shrewd move?

[BOF]

Most of his direct quotes are around how the players are progressing and about how hard they're working. About how they're not there yet but that they're receptive and that he can't fault their effort. He does use words like excellent too but I don't think you can criticise someone for bigging up his players and making them feel good about themselves. The important stuff happens on the training ground. They know what's required of them. If I had to choose, I'd much rather hear a manager being overly complimentary about his players than the kind of thing O'Leary used to come out with.

[villan_007]

Rule 1: Don't slag off your young players in front of the worlds media. Have a word behind closed doors.

[BOF]

What I will say about his time here is that I am of the opinion that we were trying to get champions league within 4 years,  that that was the model we were operating and mon was given funding to do that in the knowlegde that at the end of year four we would either have CL money to fund us or we had to cut our cloth rapidly.  A high stakes gamble that he bought into but Randy put together.

 

MON decided that in order to try and make that as achievable as possible he had to try and attract players to the club who were experienced in the fight and with an ability at this level to get us there in 4 years.  Where we were as a club at the time meant that to get those players we had to pay above and beyond the requirement.  This is the route the manager chose.

Yep I'd agree that at the start of Lerner's ownership there was a plan of probably around the 4 or 5 year mark designed to get us into the Champions League places and financially it all looked to be playing out that way. But then as well as narrowly missing out on CL, the whole Man Citeh thing 'happened' and completely changed the footballing landscape to the point where we had to take stock and go again.

That brings us to the whole 'Dortmund model' angle. Two years of serious blood-letting (GH & AMcL) were followed by Lambert. The previous attempt under MON showed that we can't (and because of Citeh perhaps 'won't') buy our way into the upper echelons. So if it is ever going to happen, we're going to have to go about it in another way. As in create your own stars instead of buying them. People will say 'but Dortmund buy stars'. They didn't at the start. They built players up from the lower reaches and sold them on and replaced them with others. Yes there comes a tipping point in that model where if you do it right, you are playing at too high a level to be able to rely on 'buying low' from league 1 or 2 and plonking them straight into your starting 11 and expecting to be top 4, but we're nowhere near that stage yet. We're still at the very early stage. But if we're ever going to achieve something worthwhile, without risking the longer term future of the club then I believe we're doing it the only way possible, short of finding another Sheikh Mansour.

[Richard]

Well I nearly agree with everything Richard and BOF said - especially about PL's project here.

 

Dont think it is fair or there is any evidience that MOn deliberately walked out at a time to maximise damage - I think there was a 'last straw' from his point of view - and I did enjoy the MON years.

 

As regards a lot of fans turning on PL - I am sorry to say I think that is absolutely true.  But the crucial thing is that this says far far more about the mentality those 'fans' than it does about PL.  Hopefully he, the players, and the owner, are aware enough of the tendency amongst modern football fans to throw their toys out of their collective prams when they dont like something to treat it with the complete indifference it will deserve.  See Wenger, Moyes, Villas Boas, to name just three who have already suffred the baying at the moon response this season.

I dont think he walked to maximise damage,  if that is my inference then I have worded that bit badly.  I think,  like you,  it was a straw too far!

 

On the bit I have made bold and underlined,  you have no worries chap !

[Big_John_10]

He told O'Neill continually that he had to bring the wages under control at some point because it was unsustainable at its current level. Transfer window after transfer window, Lerner to his own detriment continued to fund O'Neill's purchases beyond the point that was reasonable or sensible.

If true what a weak and pathetic owner who had no balls to stand up to a man he employs or thought about the future of his investment.

Since then, through Houllier's tenure and McLeish's tenure we have tried to bring the running costs of the club back down to a level commensurate with our income

Like signing a 35 year old keeper on a massive 5 year deal? Or give Stephen Ireland a £70,000 a week contract when no manager was around.

Your first theory would have more credibility if we didn't continue to do what we did under MoN for two more years. Also again look at the damage the owner did, while trying to bring spending down we have to pay £16 million in compensation due to the owners terrible mistakes.

I agree with other parts of your post but most of it is based on this rather hopeful assumption that the current owner want anything more than surviving on the cheap.

Unfortunatley I can see the fans turning on lambert before they turn on Lerner.

[Spoony]

I've become a bit disillusioned and moany recently but I must say the last few posts (BOF and Richard in particular) have calmed me down and refocused me a bit. It's just hard to go from top 6 every season to relegation battle every season, so you have to understand why fans are getting frustrated. Even now it's a bit of a culture shock how far we have fallen. I'm still struggling to come to terms with the fact that, rather than chasing Europe and being respected by fans, we have to be content to just make up the numbers in the PL and be that claret and blue thing that just doesn't seem to go down.

Lambert and this 'project' does have my full support. But that support is caveated with the fact that I still feel Lerner has ruined us and needs to redeem himself and that Lambert does need to sort his tactics out at times because we are just far too negative on the pitch at the mo.

[AntrimBlack]

Couple of really good posts here by Richard and BOF.

[briny_ear]

Rule 1: Don't slag off your young players in front of the worlds media. Have a word behind closed doors.

No, Rule 1. Be honest but fair with your players.

 

It is possible to be supportive of young players but still realistic about their performances, and arguably that does not mislead them into thinking they are better than they really are.

 

Do we think Houllier calling Bannan his "little Messi", or whatever nonsense he came out with, did Bannan much good in the long term?

 

I would say rule 2 is don't treat the fans like fools.

 

Lambert thought the point against West Ham was a "massive" achievement and "brilliant". Is he really expecting fans to swallow such spin without raising an eyebrow?

 

[Judging by some of the comments above, yes, and maybe he is succeeding!  ]

[BOF]

No, Rule 1. Be honest but fair with your players.

 

It is possible to be supportive of young players but still realistic about their performances, and arguably that does not mislead them into thinking they are better than they really are.

I'd say the communication between them on the training ground is a far more accurate and meaningful gauge to the players of what the manager thinks of them, rather than some obligatory interview he has to give for the official site full of rhetoric and clichéd quotes. That doesn't mean he's not bollocking them when they need it behind closed doors. He just isn't doing it in public. Again, good sensible management.

 

Lambert thought the point against West Ham was a "massive" achievement and "brilliant".

Well no, strictly speaking he didn't say either of those things, which makes your subsequent comment of fans swallowing spin incorrect from the off. He actually called it "another massive point for us away from home". Not a "massive achievement". And the only use of the word 'brilliant' was in the context of how we competed given our injuries. It wasn't used to describe the point we got. It makes it hard to discuss when people are just making stuff up :-/

[GENTLEMAN]

Most of his direct quotes are around how the players are progressing and about how hard they're working. About how they're not there yet but that they're receptive and that he can't fault their effort. He does use words like excellent too but I don't think you can criticise someone for bigging up his players and making them feel good about themselves. The important stuff happens on the training ground. They know what's required of them. If I had to choose, I'd much rather hear a manager being overly complimentary about his players than the kind of thing O'Leary used to come out with. 

 

It is all part of changing the culture of the club. I believe communication is an important aspect in managing a football club and can certainly help towards creating a positive mood around the club. I like the way Lambert interacts with the media, it makes a refreshing change from previous managers; PL tries to stay upbeat and rarely make excuses about a performance/result; PL has also been honest and realistic with supporters about the current team and long term plan for the club.

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by GENTLEMAN