Manager Paul Lambert

[villianusa]

With Benteke out he may need to look at his formation. I would go with Kozak/Weimann and Gabby up top and go back to a 442. Let's get two solid lines of four because we are getting torn to bits down the wings. 

[Kwan]

Maybe its because I watch american sports that I'm so perplexed by everyone's impatience. Teams go through this in baseball, football, and basketball. Of course, there's not the added threat of relegation, but the principle is the same.

It will be ugly. The team won't be perfect. The naysayers will have a lot of days where they can say, "I told you so." The team will stumble, falter, make you wonder if this is working. You'll bemoan the richer teams with their gigantic payrolls.

But as long as the approach is right. As long as you see the long game. As long as you stick to the plan, it will come good.

I'm a Pirates fan. Prior to this year, we haven't had a winning season in 21 years. 21.....years.

In 2011, we started strong and collapsed. In 2012, we started even stronger and collapsed again. Finally, after 21 years, we've clinched a playoff spot and secured our first winning season in decades. All this with one of the lowest payrolls in the league and primarily home grown players and cheap signings.

The point being that if you believe, if you stay patient, and the approach is right, it will come good.

Or be miserable.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Kwan

[ozvillafan]

Unconcerned.

 

We still have new players gelling - especially since we have lost a few since injury. That puts us back where we were at the beginning of last season....

 

... and our form at the end was top 6 material.

 

Patience. We will come good again during the season - only sooner, I suspect.

[Butterfingers]

 

 

 

 

"Let's just enjoy the ride"

You're enjoying this?

 

Enjoying what?

 

Winning at Arsenal? Giving Chelsea a real fright?

 

Yes I enjoyed those games immensely.

 

Liverpool & Newcastle were disappointing but the win on Saturday was welcome.

 

Not bothered about tonight.This time last year, we were hitting 4 at Man City in the same competition. It produces results like this.

 

As I said,its a ride. If you want a bit more consistency, you better pray theres some oil rich arab out there waiting in the wings, if not, wake up & smell the coffee. We're Aston Villa. We've finished in the top 4 about 4 times in 50 years.

 

 

Im not sure that is true - we finished 4th in 77, 1st in 81, 2nd in 1992 just from memory.

 

We don't have the funds to finish top 4 - I agree - but I can't accept that makes us confined to relegation battles. It doesn't help when the manager fails to get his priorities right in the transfer market - only buying one CB - One midfielder, loaning a free scoring centre forward - bringing in 2 big CF'S - which would struggle to accommodate even if they were playing well.

 

It hurts - But Lambert dropped some serious clangers this summer. 

 

 

Teams a lot richer than us can ill afford a 60K per week striker getting splinters on his arse every week. There was no alternative but to bomb Bent out & for such a free scoring striker as you put it, why wasn't he snapped up?

 

I think Helenius may provide cover for Weiman & Gabby as well as being a CF. It was all about strengthening the squad within a very limited budget. I think if another player came in, it would have been a CB but they don't grow on trees & obviously with Bent going, a replacement for him was priority (given we have 4 CB's)

 

 

He got splinters in his arse - because he wasn't picked. If transfer funds are tight - I personally wouldn't be loaning out a player with Bents goalscoring record to one of our rivals - If you would that's your shout.

 

But if we had £3.5m for Tonev & £7m for Kozak - then our budgets not that limited.

 

Yes we have 4 CB'S - Clarke struggled last season, whilst I like Baker he clearly has problems staying fit, The Vlaar Injury hit us so hard last season -I wouldn't have taken that chance again. Again - if you would thats your call

 

Helenuis looks some way off being to cover for Weiman\Gabby IMO  - Again your entitled to say you think can step in adequatley for those players  (I don't) 

 

 

I don't think it was financially viable to improve Bentekes contract & pay Bents wages to be a squad player. Bent himself may well have wanted to leave in order to play games. In the situation we are in, keeping Bent on that money was not really an option. Ideally I would have kept him but that said, Kozac may prove to be the better option.

 

OK we've spent some money. We are really shopping in bargain basement & cannot offer the kind of money that Habib Beye was on. Part of the argument before was that we had so many players like him who were taking massive amounts from the club each week & not giving a dam about the club. Now we have young hungry players who would run through a brick wall for AVFC, and people are still moaning.

 

I agree Helenius looks some way off been cover at present. He's played how many minutes of Premiership football? My point was that he wasn't an out & out CF as you were claiming,so we haven't actually bought 2, we've just bought 1.

 

Things are tight here. 5 CB's would be better than 4 but it didn't happen. I'm not a Clark fan myself but cannot criticise his performances this year. Maybe last seasons experience has done him good & he's now maturing a little. Again, lets see how Baker does this season before deciding on how injury prone he is.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Maybe its because I watch american sports that I'm so perplexed by everyone's impatience. Teams go through this in baseball, football, and basketball. Of course, there's not the added threat of relegation, but the principle is the same.

It will be ugly. The team won't be perfect. The naysayers will have a lot of days where they can say, "I told you so." The team will stumble, falter, make you wonder if this is working. You'll bemoan the richer teams with their gigantic payrolls.

But as long as the approach is right. As long as you see the long game. As long as you stick to the plan, it will come good.

 

 

It's nothing like rebuilding in American sports for two reasons - first, as you mentioned, the relegation thingy and second, which is more important is that you have a relative parity in spending in American sports, so when you rebuild you know you'll have the funds to create a team as good as any if you make the correct decisions. No such thing in football. The Man Cities will take your best players and let them rot on their benches, while you're buying a bunch of low cost cloggers in the hope that some will turn out good and help you avoid relegation only to be nicked by the Man Cities. Rinse and repeat.

[ozvillafan]

 

 

It's nothing like rebuilding in American sports for two reasons - first, as you mentioned, the relegation thingy and second, which is more important is that you have a relative parity in spending in American sports, so when you rebuild you know you'll have the funds to create a team as good as any if you make the correct decisions. No such thing in football. The Man Cities will take your best players and let them rot on their benches, while you're buying a bunch of low cost cloggers in the hope that some will turn out good and help you avoid relegation only to be nicked by the Man Cities. Rinse and repeat.

 

 

Welcome to modern football - the rich rule. Perhaps we just shouldn't bother turning up.

[Dodgyknees]

It's nothing like rebuilding in American sports for two reasons - first, as you mentioned, the relegation thingy and second, which is more important is that you have a relative parity in spending in American sports, so when you rebuild you know you'll have the funds to create a team as good as any if you make the correct decisions. No such thing in football. The Man Cities will take your best players and let them rot on their benches, while you're buying a bunch of low cost cloggers in the hope that some will turn out good and help you avoid relegation only to be nicked by the Man Cities. Rinse and repeat.

Welcome to modern football - the rich rule. Perhaps we just shouldn't bother turning up.

Or we could just buy players who might come good at some point and battle relegation as the chairman sits hundreds of miles away out of sight.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

 Perhaps we just shouldn't bother turning up.

 

 

Why?

[smetrov]

 

 

 

 

 

"Let's just enjoy the ride"

You're enjoying this?

 

Enjoying what?

 

Winning at Arsenal? Giving Chelsea a real fright?

 

Yes I enjoyed those games immensely.

 

Liverpool & Newcastle were disappointing but the win on Saturday was welcome.

 

Not bothered about tonight.This time last year, we were hitting 4 at Man City in the same competition. It produces results like this.

 

As I said,its a ride. If you want a bit more consistency, you better pray theres some oil rich arab out there waiting in the wings, if not, wake up & smell the coffee. We're Aston Villa. We've finished in the top 4 about 4 times in 50 years.

 

 

Im not sure that is true - we finished 4th in 77, 1st in 81, 2nd in 1992 just from memory.

 

We don't have the funds to finish top 4 - I agree - but I can't accept that makes us confined to relegation battles. It doesn't help when the manager fails to get his priorities right in the transfer market - only buying one CB - One midfielder, loaning a free scoring centre forward - bringing in 2 big CF'S - which would struggle to accommodate even if they were playing well.

 

It hurts - But Lambert dropped some serious clangers this summer. 

 

 

Teams a lot richer than us can ill afford a 60K per week striker getting splinters on his arse every week. There was no alternative but to bomb Bent out & for such a free scoring striker as you put it, why wasn't he snapped up?

 

I think Helenius may provide cover for Weiman & Gabby as well as being a CF. It was all about strengthening the squad within a very limited budget. I think if another player came in, it would have been a CB but they don't grow on trees & obviously with Bent going, a replacement for him was priority (given we have 4 CB's)

 

 

He got splinters in his arse - because he wasn't picked. If transfer funds are tight - I personally wouldn't be loaning out a player with Bents goalscoring record to one of our rivals - If you would that's your shout.

 

But if we had £3.5m for Tonev & £7m for Kozak - then our budgets not that limited.

 

Yes we have 4 CB'S - Clarke struggled last season, whilst I like Baker he clearly has problems staying fit, The Vlaar Injury hit us so hard last season -I wouldn't have taken that chance again. Again - if you would thats your call

 

Helenuis looks some way off being to cover for Weiman\Gabby IMO  - Again your entitled to say you think can step in adequatley for those players  (I don't) 

 

 

I don't think it was financially viable to improve Bentekes contract & pay Bents wages to be a squad player. Bent himself may well have wanted to leave in order to play games. In the situation we are in, keeping Bent on that money was not really an option. Ideally I would have kept him but that said, Kozac may prove to be the better option.

 

OK we've spent some money. We are really shopping in bargain basement & cannot offer the kind of money that Habib Beye was on. Part of the argument before was that we had so many players like him who were taking massive amounts from the club each week & not giving a dam about the club. Now we have young hungry players who would run through a brick wall for AVFC, and people are still moaning.

 

I agree Helenius looks some way off been cover at present. He's played how many minutes of Premiership football? My point was that he wasn't an out & out CF as you were claiming,so we haven't actually bought 2, we've just bought 1.

 

Things are tight here. 5 CB's would be better than 4 but it didn't happen. I'm not a Clark fan myself but cannot criticise his performances this year. Maybe last seasons experience has done him good & he's now maturing a little. Again, lets see how Baker does this season before deciding on how injury prone he is.

 

 

So ideally:-

 

You would have kept Bent - and purchased another CB

 

You agree that at this point in time Helenuis isn't ready.  [i think if he makes it in the prem it will be as CF] 

 

Thats pretty close to what I was saying a couple of posts back.

[Risso]

 

Maybe its because I watch american sports that I'm so perplexed by everyone's impatience. Teams go through this in baseball, football, and basketball. Of course, there's not the added threat of relegation, but the principle is the same.

It will be ugly. The team won't be perfect. The naysayers will have a lot of days where they can say, "I told you so." The team will stumble, falter, make you wonder if this is working. You'll bemoan the richer teams with their gigantic payrolls.

But as long as the approach is right. As long as you see the long game. As long as you stick to the plan, it will come good.

 

 

It's nothing like rebuilding in American sports for two reasons - first, as you mentioned, the relegation thingy and second, which is more important is that you have a relative parity in spending in American sports, so when you rebuild you know you'll have the funds to create a team as good as any if you make the correct decisions. No such thing in football. The Man Cities will take your best players and let them rot on their benches, while you're buying a bunch of low cost cloggers in the hope that some will turn out good and help you avoid relegation only to be nicked by the Man Cities. Rinse and repeat.

 

 

So apart from wages caps, drafts, franchises and the lack of relegation, it's EXACTLY like American sports!

[ozvillafan]

 

 Perhaps we just shouldn't bother turning up.

 

 

Why?

 

 

It was sarcasm. Sorry.

[Morpheus]

 

It is now becoming blatantly obvious that our best 11 is capable of around a 11th - 15th place finish. Trouble is beyond that the squad as a whole lacks enough quality.

 

I was going to say tonight it was men against boys. It wasn't though it was genuine top flight quality players all over the pitch for Spurs against Championship quality players all over the pitch for us.

 

I am loathe to blame Lambert for the above though. Given the resources he has been given in terms of transfer funds and wages then it would have needed a miracle worker to build a strong squad. 

 

It is starting to feel very much like this will be another season of struggle. The squad is weak and aside from Benteke, Delph, Guzan and Gabby it is the poorest squad I can remember in a very long time. We have to hope those four can play the majority of games and Westwood, Lowton and Weimann can realise the promise they showed for periods of last season.

 

A very balanced post Mark but ultimately you have to look at the quality of our squad and whether Lambert has improved it from the tenure of previous managers and with the exception of Benteke who has been a fantastic signing, based on our performances to date, you would have to say no.

 

We can argue all day concerning the limited funding he has been given and due to that and the signing of Benteke Lambert has and will continue to receive a lot of leeway from the fans but for me it has been the allocation of that limited funding in which i find most fault with Lambert and getting the best out of the resources available.

 

That may still change though but if we are still struggling by Christmas then the fan's patience will be severely tested.  

Edited September 25, 2013 by Morpheus

[omariqy]

Will it be made under the current regime though?

[Zatman]

dont get the negativity at all. Was practically a B team last night and in our 1st 7 games of season we have played 4 of the top 5 with the next game making up the top 5.

 

Helenius gets the penalty at 1-0 its a different game completely

[briny_ear]

It's a bit odd to accuse members of the former squad of "robbing" the club. They were paid under contracts awarded by the club.

Shifting the blame to the players does however divert attention away from the owner's financial mismanagement so I assume that is the aim of using such odd lannguage.

[thunderball]

My view on Lamberts signings.

 

Inspired: Benteke, Okore, am I allowed Guzan?

 

Improved us/Squad Players: Vlaar, Westwood, Bacuna, Lowton, KEA

 

Jury's Out/Too early: Bennett, Tonev, Helenius, Sylla, Kozak, Steer, Luna

 

Shown nothing: Bowery 

 

Not bad considering what he's spent, in my view. But we still lack that solid backbone and will struggle with injuries and burn out. At least the cup exit will remove some fixture attrition.

[Bazmonkey]

With my coaching hat on…..The problem is the formation and the severe lack of movement upfront and midfield. We are so poor at creating space and supporting the ball carrier its unbelievable.

Due to the defensive nature of the those that play in midfield we are effectively playing more a 6-4 formation rather than the 4-3-3 Lambert loves.

Westwood Delph Sylla are too alike and play to central thus leaving open to attacks from out wide and play way to deep. We are ok in our in half with the ball but because the midfield is so deep after two passes it always ends going long as there are no options and when we do get it in final third the rest of the team are too far away to support.

Most teams effectively play 5 in midfield with two holding/deep these days so against our three its always going to be over ran as most of the time the long ball up top ends up coming back.

I still think we need quality in midfield but a better formation would help get better results especially art home. Maybe something like this

Guzan

Lowton Vlaar Baker/Clark Luna/Bennett

Westwood ?????

Gabby ????? Weimann

Bentekers

I have left a couple out in midfield as its open to debate as to who would be better suited in either position.

This formation would suit us better as more support for the midfield and when attacking more support up top. It also allows for more options when we have the ball as hopefully the gap between the midfield and forwards is not massive like it is now.

[smetrov]

 

 

 

It is now becoming blatantly obvious that our best 11 is capable of around a 11th - 15th place finish. Trouble is beyond that the squad as a whole lacks enough quality.

 

I was going to say tonight it was men against boys. It wasn't though it was genuine top flight quality players all over the pitch for Spurs against Championship quality players all over the pitch for us.

 

I am loathe to blame Lambert for the above though. Given the resources he has been given in terms of transfer funds and wages then it would have needed a miracle worker to build a strong squad. 

 

It is starting to feel very much like this will be another season of struggle. The squad is weak and aside from Benteke, Delph, Guzan and Gabby it is the poorest squad I can remember in a very long time. We have to hope those four can play the majority of games and Westwood, Lowton and Weimann can realise the promise they showed for periods of last season.

 

A very balanced post Mark but ultimately you have to look at the quality of our squad and whether Lambert has improved it from the tenure of previous managers and with the exception of Benteke who has been a fantastic signing, based on our performances to date, you would have to say no.   

 

 

First fella made some very good points. I would suggest though some of the new signings need another month or two before we will have a better idea of where they are at.

 

Morph, how about you compare the wages of the squad Lambert took over compared to now. I would rather have a squad that might not be any better but was definitely not robbing the club of the money the other squad was. And I also think some of the guys brought in are better than the ones they replaced. Mid-table is progress. If you want more than that then proper investment in the team has to be made!

 

 

A worrying comment from someone so close to the club + Lambert.

 

Personally I think we have got bogged down in 'Player x could cover for player Y' - 'Player Z gives options here' - Football is the here and now - Improve the starting 11 - those that are displaced become the fringe players - don't buy fringe players to bulk up the squad.

[smetrov]

 

It's a bit odd to accuse members of the former squad of "robbing" the club. They were paid under contracts awarded by the club.

Shifting the blame to the players does however divert attention away from the owner's financial mismanagement so I assume that is the aim of using such odd lannguage.

 

I use the word rob because they earned huge money and offered nothing/little in return. But yes the people to blame for signing them with the people running the club and, more importantly, the previous managers. Not diverting anything away from anywhere. But when you earn £70,000 and are shite constantly and aren't even bothered in the slightest that you aren't playing well I think rob is a fair enough way to put it.

 

 

Well the club have taken steps to ensure that will never happen again. The flip side is, we have a load of players earning £10k - £20k per week running round like headless chickens.

Look at the flops liverpool have signed over the years, Carroll, Downing, Allen,  - that didn't stop them buying Sturridge, Countinho, Toure , etc. If you plan for the negative - you get the negative.

[KHV]

We have a great keeper and a great centre forward, beyond that the rest of the squad is pretty poor. Gabby is great on a good day but after you take Guzan, Tekkers and Gabby away it all gets a bit dodgy.

People can rave about Lowton, Westwood and Delph but if you look at as a neutral rather than a biased villa fan then how many teams would be rushing to sign any of our players apart from guzan,benteke and possible gabby really? The squad is packed full of low quality players especially the defence and midfield. There are only three or four worse squads than ours in the whole division. Lambert cannot achieve anything more than survival working like the way he does with the budget he has.