Stevo985 Posted May 16, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2015 I think it's hard to blame him for any of the goals (so far) today. Maybe he could have been stronger for the first couple, but it's hard to single out the goalkeeper when they've been totally exposed by their (lack of) defence. SO yes a better keeper maybe would have kept a couple out, but I wouldn't go so far as to blame Given. He still looks a liability in the air today though. That's what concerns me most. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Awful keeper, should be dropped after today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpaywasawesome Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I think it's hard to blame him for any of the goals (so far) today. Maybe he could have been stronger for the first couple, but it's hard to single out the goalkeeper when they've been totally exposed by their (lack of) defence. SO yes a better keeper maybe would have kept a couple out, but I wouldn't go so far as to blame Given. He still looks a liability in the air today though. That's what concerns me most. In general, don't you think Given looks slow and weak off his line? Before Guzan's cock-up against Man City, he was very solid playing as the sweeper keeper type role which is essential in modern football. Sure it may be harsh to say Given should have kept both of the first goals out, but he looked so non-commanding in his box, so weak, no assertiveness. I have absolutely zero confidence when Given comes off his line, whereas I always felt safe with Guzan. Same with claiming of high balls, Given always looks for the foul, which he has been lucky to get favourable calls for. I think if Guzan was dropped on the basis of his shaky performance against Man City well, Given should be as well for this one. I suspect Guzan might have saved or come closer to saving Mane's third and Long's second, Guzan has that in his locker, whereas Given looked like he was never ever getting to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 16, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2015 Absolutely he's slow off his line, weak in the air and not very commanding of his box. But I could have told you that 15 years ago. It's why I don't think Guzan should have been dropped in the first place. For the marginal improvement in shot stopping and (arguably) distribution that you get from Given, it's not worth it for the sacrifice you make in command of the penalty are. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Absolutely he's slow off his line, weak in the air and not very commanding of his box. But I could have told you that 15 years ago. It's why I don't think Guzan should have been dropped in the first place. For the marginal improvement in shot stopping and (arguably) distribution that you get from Given, it's not worth it for the sacrifice you make in command of the penalty are. I'd say Guzan is definitely a better shot stopper. Getting a tip on those sure looking goals is what Guzan does and has done for seasons. I'd say Guzan's handling is a little worse than Given's but that all varies on the shot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 We won 2 games after dropping guzan. Those 2 wins are looking massive now. I dont think given is a brilliant keeper but I think bringing him in after guzan was awful at city played a part. We need a new keeper in the summer and keep guzan as back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted May 16, 2015 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2015 We'd have won those games with Guzan in goal. Given barely had a save to make over both of them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Guzan probably won't remain as No. 2, nor should he. But we definitely need a new No. 1 in the summer, that much is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 He's just retired himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Guzan is good enough to be number 1 for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Given was woeful. Should be dropped and so should a few others I'm that match. Pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Crap today although I wouldn't place much blame on him for the goals as he was left exposed but his overall performance was bad, made a mess of a cross he came to claim and his kicking was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpaywasawesome Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Every keeper makes mistakes, even the best keepers of their generation will make high-profile schoolboy blunders, they are only human after all. I think Guzan was entitled to his one error against Man City after the past 3 seasons of fantastic and consistent service, yet people were quick to claim his form had dipped, didn't look comfortable commanding his back line. What nonsense really. Guzan was playing the same way he'd always been for the past few seasons, from what I've seen from Guzan, he's too much of a professional to be complacent to let his standards slip as some have suggested, after all he's pushing for the no.1 spot for the US national team for Christ's sake. He's been solid without being spectacular, it's just that one stupid save Given made in the cup that Guzan didn't have the chance of making that has blinded everyone to Guzan's better overall game. Given has been a liability ever since the Everton game, he doesn't command his box, he doesn't clatter the opposition attackers to get to the ball like good dominant keepers do, which you can see in the first 2 goals he conceded today, as well as during the last 2 games he's played in. When I was playing defence in uni, my team's keeper was terrible on the ball but he was a big burly ex-Rugby guy who was rapid and strong in a one-on-one footrace and in the box. He ALWAYS got the ball even if it meant clattering into the opposition player at full speed, brave as a ox, or jumping over taller guys to grab the ball out of the air. And that more than made up whatever he lacked on the ball and allowed us in defence to push further forward to support the attack and even when we were defending, his assuredness in the box meant we felt comfortable pushing out and squeezing the play for the offside call. Even when we didn't get it, we were certain our keeper would get there. Look at Given today. When the high line failed and Southampton players were running onto goal, did you ever feel safe with Given coming out? **** it he was slow and not aggressive enough, I remember many occasions this season when Guzan would rush many yards out of his own box to clear the danger. Given was not quick enough to get out of his box fast enough, the gap between defence and him was massive! Sure the defense also didn't handle those goal situations well, but Given could have made things much more difficult for the Southampton forwards if he was faster. He isn't. Heck I think Given has never recovered from the full-speed collision he had with Marlon Harewood which ruptured his hernia or something - I forgot when that was but Given charged out full force into an equally committed Harewood and I think he's never been the same again, this kinda crap affects you on a subconscious level, he'll never be as 100% brave or committed as he was before if he was ever. I hope we would see Guzan, I hope Sherwood realises if you want to play an aggressive high-tempo high-line game you need to have a keeper who can rush off his line to squash the distance between keeper and defense when breaks are on. With Arsenal's rapid players in Sanchez, Welbeck, Walcott - are we really going to let a keeper who is not fast enough to rush out of his box continue requiring his defenders run all the way back into the box to defend? Seriously? We are willing to allow that big of a gap between the keeper and the defence? No there is no reason to appease Given seriously, he's at the end of his career at the moment. Brad is the better keeper overall, maybe there was a reason to get him out of the limelight after the high-profile error against Man City but **** it, he's had enough time to regroup. Get Guzan in for the cup final. Edited May 16, 2015 by Alpaywasawesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) We'd have won those games with Guzan in goal. Given barely had a save to make over both of them. Don't think it works like that. The fact is we won them with Given in goal and made a big difference after the loss against city Edited May 16, 2015 by DCJonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I think people are overstating the "difference" shay made when he came in TBH. Brad hasn't been at his best this season, but even at that level he's a better all-round keeper than Shay, perhaps he needed to be taken out for a game oir two to show that he CAN be dropped, but it's time for him to be brought back in. Shay isn't up to it, and hasn't been for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I think it was extremely harsh on Guzan for him to be dropped, I don't agree with that decision at all. Now Shay hasn't done anything quite a glaring obvious as Guzan's mistake against City, but he is not a better keeper than Guzan by a long shot. Shay just doesn't seem to have any presence in the net, he is sketchy when it comes to corners, he barely commands his area, he gets pushed around, and he doesn't impose himself on attacking players at all. If I was Guzan i'd be seriously pissed off with Sherwood at the moment. Shay should have just had the cup run, with Sherwood having a word in Guzan's ear telling him to get over the mistake, step it up and if he doesn't he'll be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I don't get the rub knob fest with either Guzan or Given. They are both very very average! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I don't get the rub knob fest with either Guzan or Given. They are both very very average! As is the vast majority of our side. Don't get me wrong, I ain't knocking one out to either of the G's, but since we are stuck with what we have got, then it's worth discussing who is better suited to play for Villa. Also, cheeky bid for Czech in the Summer? I'm sure Jose won't mind him coming to Villa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Doesn't command his area. I don't blame him today but I really think despite his errors Guzan is a better keeper currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 He actually made some good saves today, early on the low shot from Pelle that he hung onto and even from the one on ones they were good saves but our defences were falling over or just watching Mane tap it in. Shane Long first goal he should've tipped over the bar imo, that was the one goal he should've done better on. I think he'll play next week v Burnley but I wonder what Sherwood will do for the cup final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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