Meath_Villan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Fear and scared used in this thread . Yet shay kept a clean sheet...I'm not in to could have or might have ...it didn't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 11, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2015 So if a goalkeeper keeps a clean sheet it's impossible for him to have played badly? You know that doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) the goalkeeper doing his job makes no sense ?....so guzan can have a great game let in 3 and we lose ? Edited May 11, 2015 by Meath_Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 11, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2015 the goalkeeper doing his job makes no sense ?....so guzan can have a great game let in 3 and we lose ? Yes. Absolutely. Guzan has had a great game and let in 8 before! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 the goalkeeper doing his job makes no sense ?....so guzan can have a great game let in 3 and we lose ? Yes. Absolutely. Guzan has had a great game and let in 8 before! Right....I'm going to leave it there then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 11, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) You don't remember that Guzan got (our) Man of the Match in that Chelsea game? You can't purely judge a goalkeeping performance by the goals conceded. That's ridiculous. A goalkeeper keeping a clean sheet does not automatically mean they've had a good game. If you'd watched the West Ham game you'd have seen that Shay was awful at corners. No, it didn't cost us, but that doesn't magically make the mistakes he made not mistakes. it just means they were mistakes that went unpunished. Similarly a goalkeeper could have an incredible game, but concede 2 goals from 2 penalties. Does that automatically mean he hasn't had a good game? Edited May 11, 2015 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Steveo I feel no matter what I'm about to reply it will be wrong ...so it's been left to your opinion and mine ....I think Shay did his job you don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Guzan is too clumsy with his feet for my taste. Rather we stick with Given for the rest of the season and look to get in a better keeper in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I agree with Stevo. Just because we didn't concede it doesn't mean that Shay didn't make mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 the goalkeeper doing his job makes no sense ?....so guzan can have a great game let in 3 and we lose ?Yes. Absolutely. Guzan has had a great game and let in 8 before! Right....I'm going to leave it there then From what I can remember he saved a penalty and made 4/5 other good saves, conceded 8 and he was our best player by a mile Thank **** those days are gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 11, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2015 I think Shay did his job you don't Yeah I don't. I struggle to see how you can think Shay did his job on corners against West Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I agree with Stevo. Just because we didn't concede it doesn't mean that Shay didn't make mistakes Yep. Just because someone did adequately doesn't make it invalid to have doubts about their performance our unfair to point out what they could have done better. Goals conceded is not the only metric on which to judge a keeper's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Obviously. It would be a lot of money for a back up goalkeeper. What do you value Guzan/Given at out of interest? TBH, I think all keepers are only as good as the back 4. Familiarity breeds content.What do I value them at? As in a transfer fee? Given zero. Guzan. Depends on how much contract he'd have when we sold him but in an ideal situation I think we'd get 5-7m Kruk would probably cost in the same region and isn't as good. I think I get the crux of what you're saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrim Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Steveo I feel no matter what I'm about to reply it will be wrong ...so it's been left to your opinion and mine ....I think Shay did his job you don't Given did let in a goal it was just incorrectly ruled offside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Eh? It was clearly offside 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 11, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2015 Steveo I feel no matter what I'm about to reply it will be wrong ...so it's been left to your opinion and mine ....I think Shay did his job you don't Given did let in a goal it was just incorrectly ruled offside It was offside. But is a perfect example as to why it would be stupid to judge a goalkeeper purely on whether he let a goal in or not. Had he been onside, Given would have no chance in keeping that out. So he'd have let a goal in through absolutely no fault of his own. So by MV's logic, that means he suddenly didn't do his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 It's strange logic for sure. Does the same apply to defenders, who's job is primarily to keep clean sheets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) . One doth love "on topic" Edited May 11, 2015 by Meath_Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heid3ster Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 In the Shay vs. Brad debate, what it comes down to for me is this. I think Brad's had a pretty bad season, at least by the standards he set for himself in the previous couple of seasons. I think this is largely due to the fact that under Lambert, there was never anyone pressing him for his starting spot and that he grew complacent and never seemed to be seeking to improve. Given, though, has all the weaknesses that have already been pointed out here -- weak at crosses and high balls, allows himself to be bullied during set pieces, etc. In my view, neither of them are ideal (Brad of two seasons ago would be ideal). So the deciding factor for me is how the rest of the back four look depending on who's in goal. Our back four, in any given combination, always has a tendency to panic and give away cheap goals, especially late ones. But they look just that little bit more calm, more assured, and less panicky in front of Given. Maybe that's due to his experience, maybe he communicates better, I don't know. But they seem to perform better when Given is behind them, and that makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpaywasawesome Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Get him out the first 2 goals he was so weak and so slow to get to the ball, the fourth was a decent through not great save that I would have expected Guzan to have made as well. And in general he looks so uncomfortable any significant distance away off his goal-line because I think he knows he doesn't have the pace to push out there to loose balls or get back when he needs to. Which is why you if look at the fifth goal, yes no way Guzan would have saved that either - it was a worldie but look how slow he was in his backpedal to attempt to save it. It might have been right initially to take Guzan out of the firing line after his Man City clanger, but enough time has passed to give him the chance to reclaim his place. Given is too slow to play the sweeper keeper style we need in this league, Guzan despite his sometimes dodgy kicking doesn't let us down in that position 99% of the time. Surely a super solid keeper like Guzan deserves our forgiveness for his once-in-a-blue-moon clangers which are seriously far and few between. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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