U.S. Politics

[Rugeley Villa]

23 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

You don't need to read it. You're saying it ffs.

Muslims are invading Europe.

Europe needs to move to the right to save itself.

Apologies for invoking Godwin's Law but **** me, replace 'Islam/Muslims' with Jews and it's literally the rhetoric Hitler and the nazis used. Do you think every day Germans were as extreme as he was?

Didn't the Muslims side with hitler? Do you think every day Americans are as extreme as trump is? I'm far from white supremacist, god what a thought 

my opinion is we do need to move to the right. 

[Rugeley Villa]

29 minutes ago, Chindie said:

It's OK because lots of people think it.

Right.

...

We're too stupid a species to survive.

Nothing lasts forever bud. 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Rugeley Villa said:

Didn't the Muslims side with hitler? Do you think every day Americans are as extreme as trump is? I'm far from white supremacist, god what a thought 

my opinion is we do need to move to the right. 

You're not reading anything I'm saying.

You're posting like a white supremacist to be honest. That Muslims are invading Europe and that we need to move to the right to save ourselves. It's like, White supremacist 101.

[momo]

I think that non-Muslim Americans are a great danger to the World. Should ban their entry to Europe.

[snowychap]

On the question of these 7 countries on the list:

Awol brought up earlier that 6 of the 7 were on a list given to Wesley Clark in the wake of September 11th and this is the transcript of the comments he made (from here):

Quote

GEN. WESLEY CLARK: I knew why, because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you've got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no." He says, "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran."

On the executive order and the Trump lot's comparisons with actions by Obama/during Obama's presidency, I found this (which may or may not be correct):

Quote

The claim: Trump’s order is similar to President Obama’s 2011 review of Iraqi visas
The rundown: There are a number of key differences

In defending his executive order, President Trump compared the ban to actions taken by President Obama during his first term in office.

“My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months,” Trump said in a statement on Sunday.

But a review of the record shows that’s a big stretch.

In 2011, the Obama administration announced plans to review the status of around 58,000 Iraqi refugees living in the United States. The review was launched after two Iraqi men were arrested on federal terrorism charges in Kentucky that year. (They had tried to ship weapons and money from the U.S. to insurgents in Iraq, and also admitted to building bombs used against American soldiers in Iraq. The men plead guilty and were sentenced to federal prison in 2013).

Obama’s order reviewed the immigration status of the 58,000 Iraqi refugees, and set up a stricter vetting process for Iraqis seeking special visas to enter the U.S. The extra security clearance caused delays in processing visas. The program was eventually rolled back in 2014, then reinstated the following year.

But the program was not a blanket ban on all refugees from Iraq, which is what President Trump imposed with his executive order last week. Obama issued a statement Monday saying his actions never halted Iraqi visas, but instead created a tougher temporary vetting system. The Trump administration’s actions are significantly broader.

The claim: Trump’s order builds on Obama’s 2015 refugee policy
The rundown: The new order is significantly broader

President Trump and administration officials also compared his executive order on refugees to a visa waiver program put in place by the Obama administration in 2015. But that comparison isn’t totally accurate, either.

In late 2015, Obama signed a year-end spending bill that included a change to an existing visa waiver program. The measure, called the “Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015,” placed restrictions on natives of Iran, Iraq, Sudan and Syria applying for U.S. visas. The restrictions also applied to anyone who had traveled to those countries since 2011.

Early last year, the Department of Homeland Security expanded the list of restricted countries to include Yemen, Somalia and Libya. In recent days, Trump administration officials have pointed to these two policies, claiming the Obama administration came up with the list of countries to which the new executive order applies.

The Obama administration did create the list, but the visa waiver program vetted applicants on a “case-by-case basis,” as the Department of Homeland Security noted last February. The program still allowed people from the listed countries to apply for visas, and gave exemptions to certain individuals, such as humanitarian aid workers and journalists. “The new law does not ban travel to the United States, or admission into the United States,” DHS said in its statement last February.

President Trump’s executive order, on the other hand, puts a 90-day freeze, without exemptions, on refugees and visa holders traveling to the U.S. from the seven listed countries. And it indefinitely blocks Syrian refugees from entering the country as well.

...other stuff on link

 

I'd also add that the Visa Waiver Program Improvement Act was introduced by the Republicans (Author: Candice Miller) and the original four countries (Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Sudan) appear to have been part of the act itself and the additional three countries were added by the DHS under Obama (in Feb 2016).

Obama was also written to by Republican house leaders and the author of the Act to castigate him and his administration for their implementation of the law, accusing him of not really acting in the letter or spirit of the thing.

To be putting it out there that they're just extending what Obama did is not even just a stretch.

Edited January 30, 2017 by snowychap

[snowychap]

As for the list being just seven countries, I'm sure I've seen/read Priebus and Spicer both clearly hinting that it could well be extended.

I guess that's the step after they've reinforced the 'temporary' ban's support, ironed out any legal issues with it, flushed out the people who might try and stop it, &c.

That sounds like the kind of thing that would take about 90 days or so.

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, choffer said:

In an attempt to add a bit of levity to this thread, some typically Scottish demonstrating:

 

This was my particular favourite from Scotchland 

[chrisp65]

From the press association, the amount of time it takes to invite a President of the U.S.

 

 

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

From the press association, the amount of time it takes to invite a President of the U.S.

 

 

It's almost as if you guys were in a bit of a desperate trade situation and looking for a way out

[snowychap]

I guess Sally Yates is off tomorrow.

[Davkaus]

21 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I guess Sally Yates is off tomorrow.

And she's sacked.

 

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

And she's sacked.

I guess she had her office packed up when she wrote the letter.

Edit: He won't.

Edited January 31, 2017 by snowychap

[maqroll]

on further thought, nah

Edited January 31, 2017 by maqroll

[TheAuthority]

6 hours ago, villaglint said:

Anybody have any links to the philosophy and ambitions of Steven Bannon? I've read various articles but I'm keen to find something a bit more detailed and thought through rather than some journalism. Can't find any books in the quick search I did.

Not keen on YouTube videos as rarely in a place where I can sit comfortably and watch them. 

Here is an article which contains a transcript of a talk he gave in 2014

Bannon in his own words

Or if you really want to listen

 

[snowychap]

30 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Here is an article which contains a transcript of a talk he gave in 2014

Bannon in his own words

The most worrying line I take out of all of that is:

Quote

I think strong countries and strong nationalist movements in countries make strong neighbors, and that is really the building blocks that built Western Europe and the United States, and I think it’s what can see us forward.

 

[maqroll]

Trump has just fired the acting Attorney General who defied his Executive Order. This is really unbelievable.

Add to that, he's kicked the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs off the National Security team, and put Bannon in there!

This is a crisis. 

 

 

 

 

[Awol]

7 hours ago, blandy said:

Unfortunately they do.

Outside of Yemen, yes. AQAP in Yemen don't and are pretty assiduous about not doing it. Not saying it never happens but it's not common.

Tribal engagement and embedding themselves in those structures is one of the reasons they are growing so strongly in Yemen.

Edit: Anyway US media now confirming the little girl was killed during the op', the women murdered are being labeled as female combatants...

Edited January 31, 2017 by Awol

[Keyblade]

7 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

You don't need to read it. You're saying it ffs.

Muslims are invading Europe.

Europe needs to move to the right to save itself.

Apologies for invoking Godwin's Law but **** me, replace 'Islam/Muslims' with Jews and it's literally the rhetoric Hitler and the nazis used. Do you think every day Germans were as extreme as he was?

It's pretty scary seeing all of this unfold before your eyes as a Muslim. Like I said before, Osama won. He scared the west into hating Muslims.

[Rugeley Villa]

17 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It's pretty scary seeing all of this unfold before your eyes as a Muslim. Like I said before, Osama won. He scared the west into hating Muslims.

I don't hate Muslims. I'm very very suspicious of Islam. All religion is bad but for me Islam is the worst one of the lot by far. Islam is not going away and is spreading worldwide. I'd rather the US became more Christian rather than let Islam spread more.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Rugeley Villa

[Keyblade]

9 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I don't hate Muslims. I'm very very suspicious of Islam. All religion is bad but for me Islam is the worst one of the lot by far. Islam is not going away and is spreading worldwide. I'd rather the US became more Christian rather than let Islam spread more.

Hate, suspicion, feels the same to me on my end and has the same end result of voting someone like Trump into power.