Stevo985 Posted September 19, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think Shearer and Hansen's rant about Joe Allen on MOTD is worth mentioning in this thread. Quite bizarre. Seemed like they were complimenting him for passing th eball a lot, but then launched into a rant about how players should be hitting the strikers as soon as they get the ball and Allen should be passing forwards all the time rather than sideways or back. They were getting passionate abotu it too. Strange. Shearer is a mug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 19, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2012 The thought of having breakfast with Brian Woolnough is quite traumatising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 19, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think Shearer and Hansen's rant about Joe Allen on MOTD is worth mentioning in this thread. Quite bizarre. Seemed like they were complimenting him for passing th eball a lot, but then launched into a rant about how players should be hitting the strikers as soon as they get the ball and Allen should be passing forwards all the time rather than sideways or back. They were getting passionate abotu it too. Strange. Shearer is a mug.That's where a presenter worth his salt would pick them up on their own contradictions and have them explain them, but that lot are so far up each others' arseholes that you'll never get punditry worth a f**k from them. As a last resort I use MOTD to see the goals and absolutely nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 19, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2012 Absolutely. On a related note, I was pleasantly surprised to see Phillipe Auclair on ITV's Champions League Highlights programme last night. A small step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The thought of having breakfast with Brian Woolnough is quite traumatising It is now. RIP Woolly. A big name in football journalism has passed ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I will never ever wish a poison croissant on anyone ever again. RIP Woolnough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 20, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2012 I will never ever wish a poison croissant on anyone ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cudoz Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Excellent piece on punditry and MOTD in the guardian by Michael Cox of Zonal Marking. Gary Neville's punditry is the best, but others need to raise their game The Sky man is celebrated for his research, neutrality and controversial analysis, but this should be the general standard Gary Neville's punditry skills have been exaggerated by the poor standard of the opposition. It requires considerable experience of watching British football coverage to understand why Gary Neville is such a celebrated pundit, for he has become universally popular for merely filling his job description. His step-by-step analysis of Stoke City's goal at West Ham last week was masterful, yet so simple – he pointed out a hand signal, a couple of blocks and a clever run. Shouldn't this be the general standard? After all, providing insight upon a sport you've played at the highest level shouldn't be particularly challenging. Neville made his punditry debut for ITV at the 2002 World Cup, whilst sidelined with the early 21st century curse of the broken metatarsal, and the Brazil side that won the competition is a decent analogy for Neville's punditry – clearly the best, but their quality exaggerated by the poor standard of the opposition. Neville's popularity is essentially rooted in three factors. First, he argues against the consensus. Last season, for example, when Chelsea were struggling to adapt to André Villas-Boas's high defensive line, they conceded a goal when Ashley Cole was stationed behind the rest of the Chelsea defence, playing an opponent onside. To every other pundit, and to the vast majority of television viewers, the problem was clear – Cole was in a bad position. But Neville said the opposite. Cole, he said, was the only Chelsea defender in a good position – the other three were to blame. Second, Neville is thorough; his Monday Night Football offerings are clearly the result of meticulous research. Putting together a 15-minute sequence on the art of diving, as he did towards the end of last season, takes dedication and commitment others lack. One Sky colleague comments on how Neville treats punditry the same way he treated professional football, where he succeeded primarily through hard work and intense preparation, rather than natural talent. Third, despite being a symbol of Manchester United, Neville appears neutral. This is actually more important when applying to individuals rather than clubs, and is in stark contrast to his colleague Jamie Redknapp, who remains determined not to criticise friends – which is particularly difficult considering he appears to be mates with, or related to, a number of key Premier League characters. In this respect, Redknapp's fault is nothing more than being a nice man, and he's become more critical, but at the start of his television career the situation was ludicrous. When analysing England's Euro 2004 defeat to France, when England conceded a penalty courtesy of Steven Gerrard's wayward backpass and David James's clumsy challenge on Thierry Henry, Redknapp managed to blame Ashley Cole for not thumping the ball downfield. Both Gerrard and James, of course, had been Redknapp's team-mates at Liverpool. Neville has avoided such partisanship, seemingly in spite of his coaching role with England. Pundits are frequently quizzed on areas they're not experts on (refereeing decisions, for example) and this applies more specifically to roles on the pitch, so Neville is, naturally, most engaging when discussing defending. Presenter introductions often contain "jokes" about how the punditry lineup is based heavily around one position – Gary Lineker did so when opening the BBC's Germany v Italy coverage at Euro 2012, with Gianluca Vialli, Alan Shearer and Jürgen Klinsmann alongside him. That's four world-class strikers, yet there was no specific focus on goalscoring. Sky's Goals on Sunday does this excellently. A relaxed roundup of the previous day's action is interspersed with friendly but engaging analysis – perhaps in the knowledge that many are witnessing the goals for a second time, so the discussion takes a different slant. Often it is serving managers who appear on the show – it was David Moyes last weekend – but even players produce good insights, because they're asked about their own areas of expertise. Last season Ian Wright and Jermain Defoe appeared together, and although that lineup is hardly likely to rival Marcelo Bielsa in terms of deep football thinking, the duo were constantly asked about finishing, about movement in the box and about striking partnerships. Somewhat surprisingly, it was excellent television, and as illuminating on the subject of scoring goals as Neville is about preventing them. Sky's La Liga coverage is also interesting, partly because of guests that have ranged from Rafael Benítez to Fabio Capello, but also because there's a focus on overall strategies – not just post-commentary on goals, but discussion upon the pattern of the game, using video examples of pressing, for example, or diagonal balls. Meanwhile, ITV's Champions League coverage deserves credit because they've created a fine partnership in Roy Keane and Lee Dixon – Keane talks primarily about attitude and team spirit, Dixon concentrates on tactical and technical aspects. There is little to recommend in Match of the Day's analysis. In fairness, the producers are in an impossible position, forced to cater to a huge range of tastes, from those who simply want to see goals, to those who want detailed, in-depth debate about offside traps and overlapping full-backs. When the mere running order is argued furiously across social networks, it's impossible to please the majority with the actual discussion – but the suspicion is that neither purist nor casual fan is satisfied by the current arrangement. Match of the Day's experiment with Vincent Kompany was interesting yet ultimately fruitless in terms of analysis. The Belgian is, if anything, too statesmanlike and media-friendly for the role – he insisted that no, he wasn't remotely pleased to see his side's major title rivals lose against a side battling relegation. Michael Owen was no more illuminating – but their mere appearances were a sign that Match of the Day is seeking to evolve its coverage and use different faces. The likes of ESPN and ITV have increasingly featured journalists on round-up shows, but as Neville has shown, there is no substitute for an insightful ex-pro when talking about on-pitch matters. Often, they're not the biggest names. The ex-Arsenal and West Ham midfielder Stewart Robson is excellent in his role as ESPN's Italian football co-commentator, delivering sharp tactical insights while the match is still in play, while the former Middlesbrough midfielder Robbie Mustoe has made a name for himself on US television. Michael Robinson, most famous at Brighton, is a key figure in Spanish television. Occasionally, you witness a guest pundit with great intelligence – Jens Lehmann is superbly analytical (and disturbingly calm), the former Tottenham goalkeeper Erik Thorstvedt is another. When Barcelona faced Real Madrid in the Champions League last year, Eidur Gudjohnsen was wonderful when discussing the difference between Pep Guardiola and José Mourinho. None have won as many titles as Alan Hansen or scored as many goals as Alan Shearer, but in terms of insight, they shouldn't be any less respected. The thing about ex-professionals is that they retain their competitive streak – pair Hansen with Shearer and the Scot is happy to spout cliches, but when he was alongside Dixon, he sensed competition and upped his game. Losing Dixon was a blow, but the BBC aren't in a disastrous position. One fine appointment – someone in the mould of Gudjohnsen, perhaps – could be the catalyst for others to step up. Match of the Day remains the most prominent football show on television – it simply needs to find its Neville. http://www.guardian....unditry-sky-bbc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2012 An unsurprisingly excellent article. Spot on in everything. And were I running a TV channel, Michael Cox would be top of my list of pundits I'd want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 MOTD should Hire James Richardson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Good article, though I think they over-praise ITV a little bit. Yes Dixon is pretty good, Keane can be insightful at times aswell, but you can't talk about ITV without balancing it out with their many downfalls. However, MOTD is indeed appalling, they got that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 MOTD should Hire James Richardson. Good call. I also feel that Mark Bolton is a good presenter, he did a great job on Revista, Scott Minto is **** awful and almost as bad as Lineker. Lineker takes the biscuit though, he's one of the worst presenters ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 27, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted November 27, 2012 Good article, though I think they over-praise ITV a little bit. Yes Dixon is pretty good, Keane can be insightful at times aswell, but you can't talk about ITV without balancing it out with their many downfalls. However, MOTD is indeed appalling, they got that right. Worst part about ITV is Chiles. He falls into the same trap as Lawro, where they both think that 1. They are funny and 2. we watch football for comedic purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Good call. I also feel that Mark Bolton is a good presenter, he did a great job on Revista, Scott Minto is **** awful and almost as bad as Lineker. Lineker takes the biscuit though, he's one of the worst presenters ever. Agreed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Worst part about ITV is Chiles. He falls into the same trap as Lawro, where they both think that 1. They are funny and 2. we watch football for comedic purposes Agree, though Lawro edges it on account of being utterly depressing at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 not a pundit but ITV was cringy last week when Tydlesly overreacted to a Hazard shot in side netting and claimed CHelsea take the lead in Turin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 MOTD should Hire James Richardson Much as I love Jimbo (and I maintain Football Weekly is the best thing ever, if you dont listen to it, why the **** not?) but Lineker is a decent host and a good face of BBC sport. I can see much more of an argument for giving Jim the MotD2 job ahead of Colin Murray, he has better jokes and appears to know much more about the game than Murray does but again, that is missing the point that where MotD really struggles is with pundits. I'm sure they have their reasons for sticking with dullards like Shearer and Lawro, there are probably millions of viewers who just want to see recognisable faces talk about the goals so having famous old pros on is an easy thing to do. The Cox article is spot on though, Neville is putting everybody else to shame and it's astonishing that the BBC havent really reacted to it yet. I can only presume they have market research with suggests that having actual insightful punditary is only wanted by a vocal minority. They should try something though, I refuse to believe that a company who employ so many jounalists havent thought about having two or three of them in regular rotation as MotD guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Much as I love Jimbo (and I maintain Football Weekly is the best thing ever, if you dont listen to it, why the **** not?) but Lineker is a decent host and a good face of BBC sport. I can see much more of an argument for giving Jim the MotD2 job ahead of Colin Murray, he has better jokes and appears to know much more about the game than Murray does but again, that is missing the point that where MotD really struggles is with pundits. I'm sure they have their reasons for sticking with dullards like Shearer and Lawro, there are probably millions of viewers who just want to see recognisable faces talk about the goals so having famous old pros on is an easy thing to do. The Cox article is spot on though, Neville is putting everybody else to shame and it's astonishing that the BBC havent really reacted to it yet. I can only presume they have market research with suggests that having actual insightful punditary is only wanted by a vocal minority. They should try something though, I refuse to believe that a company who employ so many jounalists havent thought about having two or three of them in regular rotation as MotD guests. Good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa_shere Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 How was Martin Laursen on SS1 yesterday? Was at the game, saw him in the Sky box but missed his comments 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I've watched PremierHD channel's Football Today (which is produced by Premier League afaik), Alan Curbishley, Andy Townsend and Craig Burley are utterly horrible pundits, only Lawrenson, Shearer and Hansen are as poor. The program would have potential since it's 2 hours long but the content is utter shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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