philgetaway Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 47 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I doubt whoscored have a personal vendetta against Ashley Westwood. Didn't say it was a vendetta. But I know what I saw at the match yesterday in the first half. Maybe someone has applied a filter such as "completed passes", and sold it to twitter as "all touches" for effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, philgetaway said: Didn't say it was a vendetta. But I know what I saw at the match yesterday in the first half. Maybe someone has applied a filter such as "completed passes", and sold it to twitter as "all touches" for effect? It's on their website and its provided by Opta. It might be a mistake (I'm not 100% convinced it is) but it's certainly not been invented to have a go at Ashley Westwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, DCJonah said: It's on their website and its provided by Opta. It might be a mistake (I'm not 100% convinced it is) but it's certainly not been invented to have a go at Ashley Westwood. You know very well it has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) If we don't know now ....we never will. I actually feel a bit sorry for him.....but that does not detract from me wanting to see my team back to respectability. but I can't remember a player where so many fans are adamant of his playing ability have lasted as long as he has. I can only think that he has prospered through the demise of the club and each subsequent manager has just ignored it. Edited January 3, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I thought the drop in division would suit him but he's less a factor now than what he was under Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, PaulC said: I thought the drop in division would suit him but he's less a factor now than what he was under Lambert. In my view it was always going to be worse because his main problem is his reluctance to embrace the physical contact side of the game.....He can link and do little circles and pick up loose balls, but as soon as a bit of physical involvement is required or scrapping for a ball, he comes second every time. Stan was no particular tough nut.....but he was clever and a pick pocket, he would survive by reading the game and intercepting passes.....sadly Ashley has none of that, so he is exposed. you get away with it a bit more in the Prem, unless you play the top sides, who have it to a "T".....but this league is brutal. The lad can't cope with it. Edited January 4, 2017 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Strangely I feel a sudden urge to defend poor little Westwood. Please don't shoot me. FWIW I don't rate him as footballer. But part of me still thinks he might have been a 'victim' of some rather poor footballing advice/education all the years he's been at Villa. I'm guessing someone (Lambo?) quickly identified his prime asset, which IMHO is to retain possession, and keep the game flowing by making these simple passes to the nearest teammate. I'm sure Lambo had a grand vision at an early stage, and thought we'd emulate Barca or whatever in the years to come. Fact is we've been piss poor at the possession game ever since Houllier left, and arguably even before that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually saying I believe they've told him to solely focus on this one minor part of being a footballer. But it's only natural to keep doing what 'you're good at', and never take any unnecessary risks. It's always nice and easy to just keep within one's comfort zone. Naturally, you'd have hoped Westwood himself would've had more determination and ambition to also develop other aspects of his game, sadly this hasn't happened. He is quite good at keeping possession though, and I would argue that he'd flourish in a 'great team' built upon a possession game, e.g. Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. I guess that makes him sort of a luxury player, but it's certainly a luxury we no longer can afford. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Phumfeinz Posted January 3, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2017 Well I've heard it all now. Westwood is a luxury player. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Phumfeinz said: Well I've heard it all now. Westwood is a luxury player. Was more taken aback at the suggestion he'd flourish at arsenal or Liverpool - flush the toilets maybe . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 3, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, Phumfeinz said: Well I've heard it all now. Westwood is a luxury player. I get where he's coming from. If you had a really good DM and a really good AM, then Westwood might be ok being the link between the two. Because really the only thing he has to his game is keeping possession and passing. Whereas where we are, we don't have the "luxury" of having a player who only has those attributes. We need someone who will pitch in with more tackling and ball winning than Westwood does and also pitches in with more incisive passing and chance creating than Westwood does. Basically he just doesn't do enough to justify being in our midfield in it's current state. Maybe if we had a better midfield you could accommodate him, but then chances are if you had a midfield that strong you'd have better players than Westwood available anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phumfeinz Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I get his point too, but the reality is he's just a very poor footballer and that's it. Being able to pass and retain possession is the absolute bare minimum you want from a central midfielder, it's not a luxury that needs accommodating for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 3, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, Phumfeinz said: I get his point too, but the reality is he's just a very poor footballer and that's it. Being able to pass and retain possession is the absolute bare minimum you want from a central midfielder, it's not a luxury that needs accommodating for. I disagree with your second line. Jedinak is crap, for example, at passing and retaining possession. But he's good at tackling and breaking up play and winning headers which is what he's in the team for. Fortunately the things he is good at are beneficial to us as a team so he's earned his place (for the most part). But at the moment, we don't NEED someone who is only good at recycling possession, which is all Westwood does. And even that is only on a good day. More often than not of late he hasn't even done that very well. It just isn't enough to justify him being in the team. Especially when he's played alongside a similarly ineffectual player like yesterday. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, vreitti said: Strangely I feel a sudden urge to defend poor little Westwood. Please don't shoot me. FWIW I don't rate him as footballer. But part of me still thinks he might have been a 'victim' of some rather poor footballing advice/education all the years he's been at Villa. I'm guessing someone (Lambo?) quickly identified his prime asset, which IMHO is to retain possession, and keep the game flowing by making these simple passes to the nearest teammate. I'm sure Lambo had a grand vision at an early stage, and thought we'd emulate Barca or whatever in the years to come. Fact is we've been piss poor at the possession game ever since Houllier left, and arguably even before that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually saying I believe they've told him to solely focus on this one minor part of being a footballer. But it's only natural to keep doing what 'you're good at', and never take any unnecessary risks. It's always nice and easy to just keep within one's comfort zone. Naturally, you'd have hoped Westwood himself would've had more determination and ambition to also develop other aspects of his game, sadly this hasn't happened. He is quite good at keeping possession though, and I would argue that he'd flourish in a 'great team' built upon a possession game, e.g. Arsenal, Liverpool, etc. I guess that makes him sort of a luxury player, but it's certainly a luxury we no longer can afford. but even when Arsenal come up against it at the very top level , they are inconsistent too and struggle, (Blimey even Blues got in their faces and they bottled it).......ever since I guess, who left.....Patrick Viera & Emmanulle Petit....they have been lightweight....despite their great talent. Ball winners are crucial.....and some of us of the purist type, baulk at playing 2 ..... we play one like Jedinak ( not great now i admit) and some turn their noses up. Westwood and Gardner are not DM's or Ball winners....I'm not sure what they are. Ps I don't think anyone wants to castigate our players.....but I am telling you, if we are not ruthless with it.....we will fail ,for sure. Edited January 3, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I disagree with your second line. Jedinak is crap, for example, at passing and retaining possession. But he's good at tackling and breaking up play and winning headers which is what he's in the team for. Fortunately the things he is good at are beneficial to us as a team so he's earned his place (for the most part). I must say that I take the same view as @Phumfeinz on this one mate . I believe the bare minimum you should expect from a professional footballer is to be able to pass a football. I know that different roles require different strengths but we are talking about professional sportsmen who do nothing but kick footballs for a living. Now i don't expect Mile Jedinak to be able to spray the ball about like David Beckham, but his inability to accurately pass a ball over even short distances is truly embarrassing. And i suppose that in holding that view that a professional footballer should be able to pass a ball , i can't be then impressed with someone like Westwood who possesses no more ability than what i would consider the bare minimum in a player at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 3, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2017 29 minutes ago, av1 said: I must say that I take the same view as @Phumfeinz on this one mate . I believe the bare minimum you should expect from a professional footballer is to be able to pass a football. I know that different roles require different strengths but we are talking about professional sportsmen who do nothing but kick footballs for a living. Now i don't expect Mile Jedinak to be able to spray the ball about like David Beckham, but his inability to accurately pass a ball over even short distances is truly embarrassing. And i suppose that in holding that view that a professional footballer should be able to pass a ball , i can't be then impressed with someone like Westwood who possesses no more ability than what i would consider the bare minimum in a player at this level. I assume you'd drop Jedinak then? As for your last sentence, my post agreed with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I assume you'd drop Jedinak then? Probably not, but given the state of the midfield i don't think think thats much praise. Do you not think that for a professional footballer his passing ability is anywhere near acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 If we've been trying to accommodate a player, whose only real attribute is completing a high percentage of simple passes then it's no surprise we've struggled so much. He's offered very little and been a weak link for years. Now we've dropped down a level and lost good players he hid behind, its become impossible to defend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 It's possible to over analyze players shortcomings. Sometimes they just aren't very good footballers. Westwood is a perfect example.He's just not very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philgetaway Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 6 hours ago, DCJonah said: It's on their website and its provided by Opta. It might be a mistake (I'm not 100% convinced it is) but it's certainly not been invented to have a go at Ashley Westwood. Just checked their website: Westwood had 30 touches Gardner 41 Tish 45 The original claim was from some joker on twitter and people / the brum mail have lapped it up. Anyway... he's shit an needs to go obviously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 20 hours ago, Kingman said: Still no dingle links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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