DCJonah Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 hours ago, Wezbid said: I don't think Westwood is that good but he's not as terrible as made out either. He's just very 'meh' and not in a quietly doing your job effectively way unfortunately. Sick to death of modern football fans views though in the main. Too large a majority are spouting off in extremes when usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. A player doesn't have to be deemed great or garbage. I think we should/could find better but he's a steady player, just not with any qualities that make him stand out to warrant a place in the starting line up of a team trying to win promotion. You think people have been extreme with their negative views. Yet yourself say he doesn't warrant a place in the starting line up of a team trying to win promotion. Whereas previously it was argued (not by you) that he was key for us in the premier league. The fact he shouldn't be starting for us is now deemed a realistic view suggests to me that those being negative about him over the years were not extreme in their views. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 54 minutes ago, Woodytom said: Genuinely think that managers are wrongly made out to be super knowledgeable on football. I actually think there are very few managers who really are as clued up as the role suggests. The rest are just in the right place at the right time. I can't say I have any respect for the previous five football managers at this club.... If only for the reason that they all failed to get 11 professional footballers performing the most basic of footballing principles. I'd say the fact we sit 19th in the championship says pretty much all you need to know about Ashley Westwood. Not his fault but he has contributed to the journey no doubt. If Steve Bruce picks him my instant thought will be 'he hasn't got a clue'. Two completely bewildering and mutually exclusive statements. The first one applies to literally every player in our squad (assuming it's even true), and the second one completely contradicts the first. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Woodytom said: If Steve Bruce picks him my instant thought will be 'he hasn't got a clue'. The probelm Bruce will have is who else can he pick. Tishbola is our only compotent central midfielder, the rest are dreadful and because they are so bad you have to pick two of them to do the job of one decent player. So Westwood and Jedinak will probably play and Gardner will come in the event of injuries. January can't come fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 We have 1 midfielder who can play in a two. So we'll need a three until January. Like him or not, Westwood will play until at least January and that should't affect your view on Bruce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcTheObsession Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I'm not a Westwood fan, he's not athletic or physical enough as a CM and his other attributes aren't good enough to compensate for these two weaknesses. However, I'd pick him until Jan in a 3 with Jedinak and Tshibola as Gardner is even worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 52 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Two completely bewildering and mutually exclusive statements. The first one applies to literally every player in our squad (assuming it's even true), and the second one completely contradicts the first. Nah... poorly worded admittedly but it's clear what I mean. He's an ever present in our demise. 31 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: We have 1 midfielder who can play in a two. So we'll need a three until January. Like him or not, Westwood will play until at least January and that should't affect your view on Bruce. No, we have 1 midfielder who is choosing to perform to a good standard. The rest are a complete embarrassment who need to pull the finger out. Let's forget the excuses. 40 minutes ago, villa89 said: The probelm Bruce will have is who else can he pick. Tishbola is our only compotent central midfielder, the rest are dreadful and because they are so bad you have to pick two of them to do the job of one decent player. So Westwood and Jedinak will probably play and Gardner will come in the event of injuries. January can't come fast enough. Give lyden a crack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Where's the excuse? I'm saying they're not good enough to play in a 2. In what way am I excusing anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Where's the excuse? I'm saying they're not good enough to play in a 2. In what way am I excusing anybody? If they're not good enough to play in a 2 then they're not good enough to play at all. I'm not buying this nonsense that certain cm players only work in a 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Okay then, let's have a midfield of just Tshibola then. If none of them are good enough to play at all. What a ridiculous view. How do you not get this? I'm not excusing them, saying they're any good or anything remotely similar. Our midfielders aren't very good apart from Tish. Playing in a 3 allows support for them. I'm not saying it's our best option for the long run, but the only option we have. We can't just buy better players now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Woodytom said: If they're not good enough to play in a 2 then they're not good enough to play at all. I can't think of any midfielders anywhere that are "good enough" to play in a two. It's a spurious "argument". If an EFL team plays a 2 man midfield they will get tonked, or fail to create any/many chances. Same in the Prem, same in Spain, same in Germany, same in international football. (I suppose the exception to that would be if their team played long ball football, and they were basically tasked with sitting deep and just hoofing it.) RDM playing a 2 man midfield was the cause of some of our plight, not the "inability" of any of our players to cope with such tactics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, blandy said: I can't think of any midfielders anywhere that are "good enough" to play in a two. It's a spurious "argument". If an EFL team plays a 2 man midfield they will get tonked, or fail to create any/many chances. Same in the Prem, same in Spain, same in Germany, same in international football. (I suppose the exception to that would be if their team played long ball football, and they were basically tasked with sitting deep and just hoofing it.) RDM playing a 2 man midfield was the cause of some of our plight, not the "inability" of any of our players to cope with such tactics. Danny drinkwater and ngolo Kante say hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phumfeinz Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Another problem was di Matteo was happy to play a 1-man midfield for crucial periods of the game. I'm sure Bruce won't be doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, Woodytom said: Danny drinkwater and ngolo Kante say hi No they don't. They play(ed) in a 4-4-2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 43 minutes ago, Woodytom said: Nah... poorly worded admittedly but it's clear what I mean. He's an ever present in our demise. That has little relevance to his ability as a player. Benteke and Delph were present for 80% of our demise for example, if we conveniently use the arrival of Westwood as the starting point of our demise. You say it's not his fault, but yet still bring it up and even point to our position in the table. So which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, Keyblade said: That has little relevance to his ability as a player. Benteke and Delph were present for 80% of our demise for example. It's clear as day that they minimalising any demise given the massive difference after they left. 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: You say it's not his fault, but yet still bring it up and even point to our position in the table. So which is it? Like I say it was poorly worded. It's not his fault solely but the fact he's an ever present in a team that has 4 league wins in the best part of a year and a half tells you what sort of player is.... more so than any manager picking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Woodytom said: Give lyden a crack? I haven't seen him play so I can't comment but if he has anything about him he'll surely get ahead of Gardner and/or Westwood in the near future. If he can't get past them two then there's no hope for the lad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, Woodytom said: It's clear as day that they minimalising any demise given the massive difference after they left. Like I say it was poorly worded. It's not his fault solely but the fact he's an ever present in a team that has 4 league wins in the best part of a year and a half tells you what sort of player is.... more so than any manager picking him. It's only clear as day to you because that's the narrative you've drawn up in your mind to justify it. Looking at the statement without any bias will tell you that anybody who was an ever-present in our demise is at least in some part responsible for it. Also like I said earlier, there are at least 6 or 7 other players who have been an ever-present in our lovely run to 19th place in the Championship. Are we to conclude that this says something about Jordan Ayew or Ross McCormack too? Di Matteo started Ayew in every game this season (and actually benched Westwood once iirc), so does our 19th position tell me what sort of player he is, more than of the manager picking him? I'm sure you wouldn't say that, so why make the exception for Westwood? It's nothing more than confirmation bias. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, blandy said: No they don't. They play(ed) in a 4-4-2 So there was 2 in cm yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: It's only clear as day to you because that's the narrative you've drawn up in your mind to justify it. Looking at the statement without any bias will tell you that anybody who was an ever-present in our demise is at least in some part responsible for it. Also like I said earlier, there are at least 6 or 7 other players who have been an ever-present in our lovely run to 19th place in the Championship. Are we to conclude that this says something about Jordan Ayew or Ross McCormack too? Di Matteo started Ayew in every game this season (and actually benched Westwood once iirc), so does our 19th position tell me what sort of player he is, more than of the manager picking him? I'm sure you wouldn't say that, so why make the exception for Westwood? It's nothing more than confirmation bias. It's not unknown that I rate very few of our players.... and most of them would fall into the same category here as Westwood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 It might be a case of, he feels he hasn't got much else to work with. However if he lines up in Goal, at Center Half, or Centre Forward.....I might be inclined to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts