Sportswash! - Let’s oil stare at Manchester City!

[It's Your Round]

21 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by It's Your Round

[Talldarkandransome]

27 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Bored of going to Wembley

Says it all really

[MrBlack]

9 minutes ago, jim said:

Pretty sure these were debunked in the CAS case. They were doctored by a german rag IIRC.

I think they said there was no evidence that what was described in the emails actually happened.  They don't know for certain they were doctored, but there's no evidence of any transactions showing the way they were described in the emails. Whether that was because they were masked better when they were made or were never actually made who knows.

Man City refused to allow access to servers to prove they were fake.  Does suggest they were hiding something else, but can't charge them with that. 

Be interesting to know what other evidence the PL has that makes them think they have a case.

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

48 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Jesus H. Christ: Krang from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles has put on some timber. 

[Villadevon]

Easy solution, Let three teams come up from the Championship next season and exclude City from the PL fixture list.

Job done.

[cheltenham_villa]

4 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Its not the same as what city have done at all

no its not, but it is an extension of what many would consider fair and it is a test of the rule. 

The FFP rules at their heart are designed to get football clubs to operate within their means.

Clubs are constantly testing the rules that are setup to find way s to inject more money from owners (or affiliated companies).

City have pushed that more than others and may now be fined. This maybe a one off or the premier league may start to investigate the loop holes that other clubs have exploited. 

[MrBlack]

9 minutes ago, Villadevon said:

Easy solution, Let three teams come up from the Championship next season and exclude City from the PL fixture list.

Job done.

Who's taking the extra spot in the championship?

4 up from league 1?

5 up from league 2?

3 up from the national league?

Let City take a spot in the national league or start right at the bottom

[cheltenham_villa]

33 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

I think they said there was no evidence that what was described in the emails actually happened.  They don't know for certain they were doctored, but there's no evidence of any transactions showing the way they were described in the emails. Whether that was because they were masked better when they were made or were never actually made who knows.

Man City refused to allow access to servers to prove they were fake.  Does suggest they were hiding something else, but can't charge them with that. 

Be interesting to know what other evidence the PL has that makes them think they have a case.

one thing suggested was the statute of limitations. The premier league has none, they can include all evidence and go back as long as they like. The previous investigation was limited to c5 years i believe and excluded a number of contested things.

[stewiek2]

44 minutes ago, jim said:

Pretty sure these were debunked in the CAS case. They were doctored by a german rag IIRC.

Nope, the verdict was overuled due to the evidence being time-barred. They still got a fine, they went to CAS to get it all overuled but instead the ban was overuled and the fine lowered. The CAS even said that the payments were from ADUG and not sponsors. They were guilty. They accused UEFA of biasness and ignoring evidence their dealings were above board. The CAS ruled the UEFA did NOT ignore evidence OR were biased.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/28/uefa-claim-against-manchester-city-over-sponsor-money-time-barred-cas-rules

[stewiek2]

Another reason to depise Martin Samuel, who tends to be in Abu Dhabi alot and whose son works for CFG

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2020/02/16/video-martin-samuel-compares-manchester-city-to-the-windrush-generation-in-shocking-comparison/

[Tommo_b]

8 minutes ago, stewiek2 said:

Nope, the verdict was overuled due to the evidence being time-barred. They still got a fine, they went to CAS to get it all overuled but instead the ban was overuled and the fine lowered. The CAS even said that the payments were from ADUG and not sponsors. They were guilty. They accused UEFA of biasness and ignoring evidence their dealings were above board. The CAS ruled the UEFA did NOT ignore evidence OR were biased.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/28/uefa-claim-against-manchester-city-over-sponsor-money-time-barred-cas-rules

So they were guilty but barely got punished…. That doesn’t bode well.

[stewiek2]

3 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

So they were guilty but barely got punished…. That doesn’t bode well.

Becasue alot of the evidence was dismissed due to it being time-barred. CAS recognised this evidence but lowered the judgement due to that evidence having to be dismissed but they recognised the dealings. They also had City linked members on the CAS panel AND City cooperated more with the case having their man on the panel. The wouldn't even allow CAS access to email servers to try to prove the emails were, as they claimed, doctored.

This isn't the case with this, the PL can use ALL the evidence, and I dare say some we haven't yet seen, and haven't any time-barred legislation which could protect MCFC. Man City also stopped cooperating with the UEFA investigation from 2018 onwards, so it looks like the PL have taken this case up since then. It also suggests if they wont give evidence for those seasons since then what the hell do they have to hide? They are, as they say, not guilty and above board, then surely they want to give over as much as they can to prove their case, and clear their name as much as possible!? Kicking this down the road so much is a sure sign of guilt, is it not?

[villa89]

1 hour ago, Kingman said:

Said it before, This level of cheating is IMO worse than failing doping tests for performance enhanced drugs and therefore should be stripped of all honours they have cheated to win! 

I don't see the big issue with it at all to be honest. They bypassed FFP regulations to build a great team and win trophies. The FFP system is absolute rubbish of the highest order, designed to keep clubs like Man Utd., Bayern etc. at the top of European football forever. Whatever you think of city's owners they have only done good by that club and community. In my view it's completely illegal to stop an owner investing their own money into a business that they own. The Premier League should have rules that stop clubs going bankrupt not this FFP tripe that's in place now.

You buy success in football, Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle are the clubs that have hit the jackpot with endless money to buy trophies with.  

[MrBlack]

34 minutes ago, stewiek2 said:

Nope, the verdict was overuled due to the evidence being time-barred. They still got a fine, they went to CAS to get it all overuled but instead the ban was overuled and the fine lowered. The CAS even said that the payments were from ADUG and not sponsors. They were guilty. They accused UEFA of biasness and ignoring evidence their dealings were above board. The CAS ruled the UEFA did NOT ignore evidence OR were biased.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/28/uefa-claim-against-manchester-city-over-sponsor-money-time-barred-cas-rules

Not completely true. We're both right. Some were time barred, those that weren't were thrown out on grounds of not actually being evidence.

So ultimately, unless the PL have something that CAS didn't see, it won't go anywhere.

[stewiek2]

1 minute ago, MrBlack said:

Not completely true. We're both right. Some were time barred, those that weren't were thrown out on grounds of not actually being evidence.

So ultimately, unless the PL have something that CAS didn't see, it won't go anywhere.

The Premier League have had an additional four years of investigation, so it is indeed possible that further evidence has come to light. We are oinly all basing it on the de Spiegel leaks AND the UEFA case.

[The_Steve]

1 hour ago, Talldarkandransome said:

Bored of going to Wembley

Says it all really

Before the UAE money came in the last time City made the FA Cup final was the 80/81 season. Before winning the League Cup in the 2013/14 season, their last final appearance was when they won it in the 1975/76 season. 
 

The arrogance of their fan base is sickening. A nothing club. No shame. No class. 

[MrBlack]

5 minutes ago, stewiek2 said:

The Premier League have had an additional four years of investigation, so it is indeed possible that further evidence has come to light. We are oinly all basing it on the de Spiegel leaks AND the UEFA case.

You'd hope they managed to find some real evidence, especially if they took so long and felt confident enough to charge them with everything they have. 

You'd hope they read the CAS findings and haven't repeated any claims that were already disproven, and also got more evidence around the claims that were time barred and not assessed in their entirety.

4 years is an insanely long time to be putting this together. 

I have no faith in the PL to have done a good job on this, but I do have a firm belief City Football Group were, and probably still are,  breaking whatever rules/laws they could get away with. 

[The_Steve]

Just now, MrBlack said:

You'd hope they managed to find some real evidence, especially if they took so long and felt confident enough to charge them with everything they have. 

You'd hope they read the CAS findings and haven't repeated any claims that were already disproven, and also got more evidence around the claims that were time barred and not assessed in their entirety.

4 years is an insanely long time to be putting this together. 

I have no faith in the PL to have done a good job on this, but I do have a firm belief City Football Group were, and probably still are,  breaking whatever rules/laws they could get away with. 

The CAS have said the scope of the PL investigation has a wider remit which suggests that they have some big, big things that aren’t in the public domain. The 115 charges is the tip of the iceberg. 

[DCJonah]

31 minutes ago, villa89 said:

I don't see the big issue with it at all to be honest. They bypassed FFP regulations to build a great team and win trophies. The FFP system is absolute rubbish of the highest order, designed to keep clubs like Man Utd., Bayern etc. at the top of European football forever. Whatever you think of city's owners they have only done good by that club and community. In my view it's completely illegal to stop an owner investing their own money into a business that they own. The Premier League should have rules that stop clubs going bankrupt not this FFP tripe that's in place now.

You buy success in football, Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle are the clubs that have hit the jackpot with endless money to buy trophies with.  

I just couldn't disagree more. 

[The_Steve]

There’s a huge middle ground between “buying” success and using illegal means to buy that success - be it inflating sponsorships via the actual source, not declaring the true income of managers or players to manipulate your balance sheets. This is unprecedented in scale and accusation. Anyone pretending otherwise isn’t paying attention.