Martin O'Neill

[Zatman]

am sure it was Robbie Keane we were heavily linked with as well that summer

[briny_ear]

am sure it was Robbie Keane we were heavily linked with as well that summer

Mmmm...and we saw what a poor judgment call that would have been a few weeks ago when Keane came on loan andfor a few happy weeks was our best forward. :confused:

[TrentVilla]

am sure it was Robbie Keane we were heavily linked with as well that summer

Mmmm...and we saw what a poor judgment call that would have been a few weeks ago when Keane came on loan andfor a few happy weeks was our best forward. :confused:

That as may be but signing him on a permanent basis with a 2 or 3 year contract on the wages he would have commanded in our current financial situation would have been a bad move.

[briny_ear]

Just read the letter from the browns fan in the Randy Lenrer topic. He seems to imply that MON deliberately timed his exit from the club to be 5 days before the start of a new season to cause maximum destruction. Does anyone else think this?

I haven't read the letter from the alleged Browns fan but I do wonder how he hell a Browns fan would have any particular knowledge of MON's motivation during that troubled summer, and why anyone would seriously be spending their time bothering with this.

I mean, this is real "get a life" time, is it not?

[Voinjama]

Scott Parker went to Spurs in 2011, a year after MON left, so I dont think it was him. I know it is the past, but I want, no I need to know the truth about exactly what happened. We all have our theories and opinions, but no football fan knows the truth.

[Hanky]

According to what I heard it was O'Neill wanted to spend the Milner money on Parker and Bent so could be either.

[Voinjama]

Just read the letter from the browns fan in the Randy Lenrer topic. He seems to imply that MON deliberately timed his exit from the club to be 5 days before the start of a new season to cause maximum destruction. Does anyone else think this?

I haven't read the letter from the alleged Browns fan but I do wonder how he hell a Browns fan would have any particular knowledge of MON's motivation during that troubled summer, and why anyone would seriously be spending their time bothering with this.

I mean, this is real "get a life" time, is it not?

Discussing this is no more or less "sad" then discussing anything else. Look at the Mcleish thread, it is so repetitive with the same posters posting exactly the same thing aftr every game. The problems we are seeing at the club can now partly be traced back to that whole episode with MON..

[briny_ear]

am sure it was Robbie Keane we were heavily linked with as well that summer

Mmmm...and we saw what a poor judgment call that would have been a few weeks ago when Keane came on loan andfor a few happy weeks was our best forward. :confused:

That as may be but signing him on a permanent basis with a 2 or 3 year contract on the wages he would have commanded in our current financial situation would have been a bad move.

I reckon Keane probably went to the US too early and has a couple of good seasons in him, so it's not a black and white fact that signing him would have been a bad idea. It all depends if we were still looking to compete with the top 4 by that point. It seems pretty clear in retrospect that Lerner had realised he had bitten off more than he could chew and was looking for a more modest operation.

It seems much more plausible that MON pulled out when he realsied that, rather than the conspiracy theory that he was seeking to harm the club, which is apparently now being promulgated by a Browns fan (?) and swallowed whole by a few.

[Voinjama]

According to what I heard it was O'Neill wanted to spend the Milner money on Parker and Bent so could be either.

What is your source?

[briny_ear]

Just read the letter from the browns fan in the Randy Lenrer topic. He seems to imply that MON deliberately timed his exit from the club to be 5 days before the start of a new season to cause maximum destruction. Does anyone else think this?

I haven't read the letter from the alleged Browns fan but I do wonder how he hell a Browns fan would have any particular knowledge of MON's motivation during that troubled summer, and why anyone would seriously be spending their time bothering with this.

I mean, this is real "get a life" time, is it not?

Discussing this is no more or less "sad" then discussing anything else. Look at the Mcleish thread, it is so repetitive with the same posters posting exactly the same thing aftr every game. The problems we are seeing at the club can now partly be traced back to that whole episode with MON..

If you mean that Lerner sold off most of our best players that MON had bought and/or helped develop, didn't replace them adequately, and appointed two hapless managers who couldn't even get the team to perform as well as it should with the squad we had left, well, yes...I suppose there is some remote link back to MON.

But do I detect a certain strain in this thread that some people who confidently told us MON was a poor manager are now a bit miffed because he is clearly showing at Sunderland that he is quite a good one? :winkold:

[TrentVilla]

But do I detect a certain strain in this thread that some people who confidently told us MON was a poor manager are now a bit miffed because he is clearly showing at Sunderland that he is quite a good one? :winkold:

I don't and I don't think anyone and I do mean anyone thought O'Neill was a poor manager.

I think many had come to realise that he was a flawed manager, that he was a manager that possessed many positives but probably just as many negatives. I won't repeat them as I think its been done to death and we all know what they were.

I think many people thought that we were where we were because of O'Neill but that we had also fallen short of CL because of O'Neill. I think both these things are true.

I think many felt that the we had gone as far as we could under O'Neill and that if we were serious about trying to reach the CL we needed better. Little did anyone know that Lerner had given up and was about to change the direction of the club.

I don't think O'Neill's success to date comes as a surprise to anyone but neither will the problems he has or the frustrations their fans will have in 2 or 3 years time.

[Voinjama]

If you look at my posts, you will see I always pro MON. Recently I have come to a more neutral position because of the revelations about his signings and the wages. But I was never saying MON was a poor manager

[villa4europe]

But do I detect a certain strain in this thread that some people who confidently told us MON was a poor manager are now a bit miffed because he is clearly showing at Sunderland that he is quite a good one? :winkold:

I don't and I don't think anyone and I do mean anyone thought O'Neill was a poor manager.

I think many had come to realise that he was a flawed manager, that he was a manager that possessed many positives but probably just as many negatives. I won't repeat them as I think its been done to death and we all know what they were.

I think many people thought that we were where we were because of O'Neill but that we had also fallen short of CL because of O'Neill. I think both these things are true.

I think many felt that the we had gone as far as we could under O'Neill and that if we were serious about trying to reach the CL we needed better. Little did anyone know that Lerner had given up and was about to change the direction of the club.

I don't think O'Neill's success to date comes as a surprise to anyone but neither will the problems he has or the frustrations their fans will have in 2 or 3 years time.

spot on

said at the start of this thread he would get sunderland playing a lot better and get them up the table but IMO then and still now he wont get a 6th place finish with them, the league has got better and he's not good enough

[ml1dch]

If you look at my posts, you will see I always pro MON. Recently I have come to a more neutral position because of the revelations about his signings and the wages. But I was never saying MON was a poor manager

Revelations?

Has anything been revealed about his transfer/wage policy that wasn't fully known through the whole of his time with us?

[briny_ear]

If you look at my posts, you will see I always pro MON. Recently I have come to a more neutral position because of the revelations about his signings and the wages. But I was never saying MON was a poor manager

Revelations?

Has anything been revealed about his transfer/wage policy that wasn't fully known through the whole of his time with us?

I think at some point it may have come as a shock to Randy Lerner!

[LondonLax]

I really can't understand the idea that running a football clubs budget is the managers job.

Look at Redknapp at Spurs. There were plenty of people on here saying he would ruin Tottenham and leave them bankrupt like Portsmouth but that was never going to happen because Levy actually knows how to run a football club.

If our wages are unaffordable this is the fault of the clubs board and the board alone. MON may have made requests for expencive players like Baye to join as backup but if the club couldn’t afford it there should have been a simple "no" from the directors.

The financial position of a football club could not possibly be put in jeopardy by the manager at a well run club.

[Genie]

The financial position of a football club could not possibly be put in jeopardy by the manager at a well run club.

Fully agree!!

[Stevo985]

I really can't understand the idea that running a football clubs budget is the managers job.

Look at Redknapp at Spurs. There were plenty of people on here saying he would ruin Tottenham and leave them bankrupt like Portsmouth but that was never going to happen because Levy actually knows how to run a football club.

If our wages are unaffordable this is the fault of the clubs board and the board alone. MON may have made requests for expencive players like Baye to join as backup but if the club couldn’t afford it there should have been a simple "no" from the directors.

The financial position of a football club could not possibly be put in jeopardy by the manager at a well run club.

But I think the point is, the wages wouldn't be unaffordable if we'd hit our goal of making the champions league.

I'm a MON fan, I'd have him back in a second.

However, Lerner trusted an amount of money to MON to get us Champions League Football. Had we done that, we wouldn't be concerned about our wage bill because the increased income would cover it.

Once Lerner realised that Champions League Football wasn't going to happen he took the decision to cut back to ensure the club didn't fall into financial trouble (and I mean real financial trouble), which is, I assume, when MON upped sticks and left.

Lerner's biggest mistake is assuming the amount of money he made available to O'Neill WOULD bring us Champions League football. Yes he can't be blameless, maybe he committed more than he should have, which makes these cutbacks more excessive than they may have had to be.

But MON must also shoulder some of the blame for not using the money as well as he could have. Again, I'm a MON fan, I think he did a good job with us. But it cannot be argued that he "wasted" a lot of money.

On the other hand he did use SOME of the money extremeley well.

But maybe if the money he "wasted" had been better used, we WOULD have hit our goal of the Champions League and the money Lerner had committed to wages and fees wouldn't now be coming back to hurt us.

it doesn't have to be Lerner OR MON. They can both shoulder part of the blame for our current financial position.

[Voinjama]

If you look at my posts, you will see I always pro MON. Recently I have come to a more neutral position because of the revelations about his signings and the wages. But I was never saying MON was a poor manager

Revelations?

Has anything been revealed about his transfer/wage policy that wasn't fully known through the whole of his time with us?

The wages MON gave to certain players was revealed, and this is one of the key reasons why the club is in the financial mess we currently see. I am neutral on MON, not for or against him.

[LondonLax]

I really can't understand the idea that running a football clubs budget is the managers job.

Look at Redknapp at Spurs. There were plenty of people on here saying he would ruin Tottenham and leave them bankrupt like Portsmouth but that was never going to happen because Levy actually knows how to run a football club.

If our wages are unaffordable this is the fault of the clubs board and the board alone. MON may have made requests for expencive players like Baye to join as backup but if the club couldn’t afford it there should have been a simple "no" from the directors.

The financial position of a football club could not possibly be put in jeopardy by the manager at a well run club.

But I think the point is, the wages wouldn't be unaffordable if we'd hit our goal of making the champions league.

I'm a MON fan, I'd have him back in a second.

However, Lerner trusted an amount of money to MON to get us Champions League Football. Had we done that, we wouldn't be concerned about our wage bill because the increased income would cover it.

Once Lerner realised that Champions League Football wasn't going to happen he took the decision to cut back to ensure the club didn't fall into financial trouble (and I mean real financial trouble), which is, I assume, when MON upped sticks and left.

Lerner's biggest mistake is assuming the amount of money he made available to O'Neill WOULD bring us Champions League football. Yes he can't be blameless, maybe he committed more than he should have, which makes these cutbacks more excessive than they may have had to be.

But MON must also shoulder some of the blame for not using the money as well as he could have. Again, I'm a MON fan, I think he did a good job with us. But it cannot be argued that he "wasted" a lot of money.

On the other hand he did use SOME of the money extremeley well.

But maybe if the money he "wasted" had been better used, we WOULD have hit our goal of the Champions League and the money Lerner had committed to wages and fees wouldn't now be coming back to hurt us.

it doesn't have to be Lerner OR MON. They can both shoulder part of the blame for our current financial position.

So the board gambled with our club and lost?

That is a pretty foolish thing to do in such a fickle environment as running a football club. Man City spent far more than us and still took a couple of seasons to break into the top 4.

I lay no blame at the door of the manager for the financial situation at the club.

MON made mistakes of course but he is not responsible for the club finances.