dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Looks like they finally managed to pin something on DLT Originally cleared of 12 charges Retried on 2 they couldn't reach a verdict on and cleared of those Tried on another one and found guilty Call me cynical but it looks as though they kept digging up witnesses until they found one that would stick Nah in this instance it was a case of well known serial groper finally gets done as he usually strikes with no witnesses around. DLT was notorious, it was that much common knowledge that Liz Kershaw even wrote about it in her autobiography. That was never challenged legally by DLT either and you can be sure as eggs is eggs that he knew about it. Its just hard to get convictions where theres no actual evidence but at last they found a case that was provable and in this instance the victim is a current tv entertainer and the witness was a BBC producer, neither really had anything to gain by coming forward I understand the sentiment of his alleged serial groping but ultimately all the other counts have to be discarded don't they when the Judge gives his sentencing So is DLT really going to get prison time for putting his hand on a ladies breast ? I think it's unlikely. Do you think he should? Disregarding the other allegations as you rightly point out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Looks like they finally managed to pin something on DLT Originally cleared of 12 charges Retried on 2 they couldn't reach a verdict on and cleared of those Tried on another one and found guilty Call me cynical but it looks as though they kept digging up witnesses until they found one that would stickNah in this instance it was a case of well known serial groper finally gets done as he usually strikes with no witnesses around. DLT was notorious, it was that much common knowledge that Liz Kershaw even wrote about it in her autobiography. That was never challenged legally by DLT either and you can be sure as eggs is eggs that he knew about it. Its just hard to get convictions where theres no actual evidence but at last they found a case that was provable and in this instance the victim is a current tv entertainer and the witness was a BBC producer, neither really had anything to gain by coming forwardI understand the sentiment of his alleged serial groping but ultimately all the other counts have to be discarded don't they when the Judge gives his sentencing So is DLT really going to get prison time for putting his hand on a ladies breast ? I think it's unlikely. Do you think he should? Disregarding the other allegations as you rightly point out. I wouldn't wish to trivialise what he did as just "nothing" .... However from the report I heard on the radio it "sounded" like at the time she laughed about it with the producer she reported it to as they didn't really know what to make of it and then it took her 17 years to report it to the police ... I guess that's what I find hard to understand with all these instances , why now ? Maybe you have to be a victim of such a crime to understand how you'd really cope with it and deal with it In his instance prison would seem harsh but maybe other people have a different perspective , it's still being regarded as sexual assault isn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I think prison for a grope 20 years ago would be overly harsh, it isn't needed to protect the public. But if it was wrong, it was wrong. That a victim may laugh something off at the time might be a defence mechanism, telling yourself it wasn't serious. Whereas, to remember it all those years later it clearly wasn't that trivial. It may well be that 20 years ago, if you want to keep a job in the industry you had to accept a certain amount of hands on experience that you didn't like but told yourself it was the norm, that others put up with it. A bit of public shame and some community service 'feels' about right on my next to no knowledge of this case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 FYI my question wasn't loaded in any way and I agree with both of you, on every point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I think prison for a grope 20 years ago would be overly harsh, it isn't needed to protect the public. But if it was wrong, it was wrong. That a victim may laugh something off at the time might be a defence mechanism, telling yourself it wasn't serious. Whereas, to remember it all those years later it clearly wasn't that trivial. It may well be that 20 years ago, if you want to keep a job in the industry you had to accept a certain amount of hands on experience that you didn't like but told yourself it was the norm, that others put up with it. A bit of public shame and some community service 'feels' about right on my next to no knowledge of this case. The harshness of the sentence will reveal how much it's about punishment, deterrent and revenge. The whole issue seems very much like the sisterhood flexing their recently acquired muscle to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I think prison for a grope 20 years ago would be overly harsh, it isn't needed to protect the public. But if it was wrong, it was wrong. That a victim may laugh something off at the time might be a defence mechanism, telling yourself it wasn't serious. Whereas, to remember it all those years later it clearly wasn't that trivial. It may well be that 20 years ago, if you want to keep a job in the industry you had to accept a certain amount of hands on experience that you didn't like but told yourself it was the norm, that others put up with it.A bit of public shame and some community service 'feels' about right on my next to no knowledge of this case. The harshness of the sentence will reveal how much it's about punishment, deterrent and revenge. The whole issue seems very much like the sisterhood flexing their recently acquired muscle to me. Next thing you know they'll want the vote. Surely this is the anti sexual assault movement flexing it's muscle? I didn't think that "sex" came into it at all? That's quite a contentious point and I assume you are ready to defend it! The judge may well choose to make an example of him, wouldn't surprise me at all or would I be particularly disappointed. This kind of shit cannot be allowed by society. However that's not really how I understand the purpose of the courts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Will the Hairy Cornflake do porridge? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Will the Hairy Cornflake do porridge? Front page of the Metro this morning. Yes, you have sunk that low. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Will the Hairy Cornflake do porridge? Front page of the Metro this morning. Yes, you have sunk that low. I can sink lower ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I think prison for a grope 20 years ago would be overly harsh, it isn't needed to protect the public. But if it was wrong, it was wrong. That a victim may laugh something off at the time might be a defence mechanism, telling yourself it wasn't serious. Whereas, to remember it all those years later it clearly wasn't that trivial. It may well be that 20 years ago, if you want to keep a job in the industry you had to accept a certain amount of hands on experience that you didn't like but told yourself it was the norm, that others put up with it. A bit of public shame and some community service 'feels' about right on my next to no knowledge of this case. The harshness of the sentence will reveal how much it's about punishment, deterrent and revenge. The whole issue seems very much like the sisterhood flexing their recently acquired muscle to me. Next thing you know they'll want the vote. Surely this is the anti sexual assault movement flexing it's muscle? I didn't think that "sex" came into it at all? That's quite a contentious point and I assume you are ready to defend it! The judge may well choose to make an example of him, wouldn't surprise me at all or would I be particularly disappointed. This kind of shit cannot be allowed by society. However that's not really how I understand the purpose of the courts. The claim that it was a gender-neutral campaign against sexual assault might stand, when and if, they ever get round to prosecuting women who are guilty of groping men. But as it stands, both public opinion and the law see it differently and respond differently when women are the accused rather than men. Are female teachers who have sex with under-age boys treated in quite the same way as male teachers who have sex with under-age girls? I don't think they are. As someone who worked in the engineering industry, I know that not many years ago female operatives used to subject male apprentices to sexual hazing, which varied from groping their genitals and/or de-bagging. This amounted to a tradition up north and women were not reticent in boasting about it. Will these women ever be prosecuted and made 'an example of'; I am absolutely certain they will not. The public have it fixed in their minds that women are always victims and men always the perpetrators and they have completely ignored how the due process has been altered to enable the targets of media-generated public outrage to be convicted. The have passively allowed the least to be conflated with the worst and treated as if they were the same. But what people don't understand is that when they have run out of high-profile targets they will not stop and having altered the judicial system and shifted public opinion, they will go after ordinary blokes. I can understand the advantages of being a white knight but guys should ask themselves, why, if the forces of feminism are so benign, why are we so afraid to demur. Just saying, like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Why should the forces of feminism be benign? There's still a lot of ground to be made up for true equality, so get some high profile messages and lessons out there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Will the Hairy Cornflake do porridge? Front page of the Metro this morning. Yes, you have sunk that low. I can sink lower ................ Ed Miliband's script writer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Looking like a pillar of virtue these days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 25, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2014 Frank tooting Bough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Aye, and prostitutes are generally consenting and perhaps even of legal age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 25, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2014 Poor Nesta though, she was devastated. (she was a family friend of my great aunt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Why should the forces of feminism be benign? There's still a lot of ground to be made up for true equality, so get some high profile messages and lessons out there. Feminism is definitely not benign. I used to think it was but even a slightest acquaintance with the reality (check out my avatar) and the truth quickly becomes apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Why should the forces of feminism be benign? There's still a lot of ground to be made up for true equality, so get some high profile messages and lessons out there. Feminism is definitely not benign. I used to think it was but even a slightest acquaintance with the reality (check out my avatar) and the truth quickly becomes apparent. I used to read Spare Rib back in the day - I don't think it ever pretended to be benign. But you can't really label the whole idea of feminism with any catch all descriptor, I guess. Power to the people, regardless of genitalia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Watching that Mitchell and Webb look on Netflix last night. Cuts to a sketch with a picture of Jimmy savile and Mitchell saying "...3 life sentences. No matter how much you think you know someone.." Series 2, March 2008. How much had come out by then? http://youtu.be/yBlUzPlnx6U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 26, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2014 The Cliff Richard thing has gone very quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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