The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[AshVilla]

I can't wait till this season is over

The closer we get to the end of the season the closer we get until McLeish gets given the bullet (hopefully)

Let us pray

[TrentVilla]

Its not excuses though. Its quoting facts.

O'Neill left the club in an awful mess financially and indeed squad wise.

AM has had to deal with our chairman's cutbacks as well as trying to replace Downing, Young, Luke Young, Friedal, on a limited budget while also having to rely on our youth to make up the numbers in our squad.

Not exactly ideal is it.

Excuses are exactly what you are putting forward.

I really don't need to hear yet again what O'Neill left behind, I'm fully aware of it thanks.

What he inherited wasn't ideal but it is no worse than O'Neill inherited at Sunderland and look at the positive impact he made. McLeish has failed, nobody expected him to be challenging for 4th place but our performance this season has been terrible.

If you want to talk about facts.

Worst home form in 26 years.

7 league wins all season.

There are two big fat facts for you.

[TrentVilla]

Judging him is as you say totally up to you. Just stating that in my own opinion he should be given more time and i am not trying to change your or anyone else's mind about him, just putting my own opinion forward.

No. You said judge him when he has his own players which is basically saying it is too soon to judge him. You weren't just stating your own opinion you were trying to say those judging him now are doing so too soon.

I have never said that i feel he is a decent manager. I have however defended him against certain posts which i felt were unfair, in particular, when you said he was not 'a victim of circumstance.' I still believe he has been and nothing would deflect me from that opinion.

Fair enough but in my opinion he isn't a victim of circumstance, he is an average manager who has shown poor judgement in the transfer market and plays the most horrible negative football I've ever seen.

But unfortunately AM is our manager. The team have been very poor under his tenure but i still maintain that certain circumstances have contributed to that and indeed AM is not totally to blame for where we are at the moment.

And I've said many many times that he isn't entirely at fault for the problems at the club but crucially he is himself a problem rather than a part of a cure.

[b6bloke]

Yes he has done that with the left overs of O'Neill's team and not his own team.

Judge him when he has had a chance to rectify O'Neill's mistakes in the transfer market and is not so dependent on bringing the wages down.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

In the summer it was judge him after January, after January it was judge him at the end of the season and at the end of the season its judge him next season.

I will judge him when I want thanks and my judgement based on what he has done this season and what he has done throughout his managerial career is that he isn't the man I want to be in the job.

Forget rectifying O'Neill's mistakes in the transfer market, he needs to rectify his own first.

Its not excuses though. Its quoting facts.

O'Neill left the club in an awful mess financially and indeed squad wise.

AM has had to deal with our chairman's cutbacks as well as trying to replace Downing, Young, Luke Young, Friedal, on a limited budget while also having to rely on our youth to make up the numbers in our squad.

Not exactly ideal is it.

As much as MON left us in shit we still had a squad capable of something better than what we are seeing now. Its bad management, he is technicaly inept and has no power to motivate!

I didnt want him but felt the need to give him a chance but it is actually painfull to watch! I have never ever felt like this before, losing never used to feel like this as you could still get excited, watching Villa at the moment is like watching someone self harm!

[Morpheus]

Yes he has done that with the left overs of O'Neill's team and not his own team.

Judge him when he has had a chance to rectify O'Neill's mistakes in the transfer market and is not so dependent on bringing the wages down.

You are spot on.

But don't expect many to agree with you. The problem McLeish has is that for the people who want him out, their feelings are so strong that he faces a near impossible task to change their minds. Eg finish top 7 and there would still be a lot who want him out.

This is why the chance of him succeeding is so low and almost makes it pointless him staying.

100% agree with you about the feeling against McLeish and you can see this now with the personnel abuse he is receiving which i am personally disgusted with.

I can understand criticism of his ability as manager but the personal abuse is appalling.

[b6bloke]

Yes he has done that with the left overs of O'Neill's team and not his own team.

Judge him when he has had a chance to rectify O'Neill's mistakes in the transfer market and is not so dependent on bringing the wages down.

You are spot on.

But don't expect many to agree with you. The problem McLeish has is that for the people who want him out, their feelings are so strong that he faces a near impossible task to change their minds. Eg finish top 7 and there would still be a lot who want him out.

This is why the chance of him succeeding is so low and almost makes it pointless him staying.

100% agree with you about the feeling against McLeish and you can see this now with the personnel abuse he is receiving which i am personally disgusted with.

I can understand criticism of his ability as manager but the personal abuse is appalling.

Abuse! He has got off lightly in my opinion and if you are disgusted with what has been said so far then maybe you may want to consider following a sport where the fans are less passionate. There is not a fan on here who does not love the Villa but some of love them so much that we can not watch it being abused so badly.

What do you think the average gate will be next season? I would say 22,000 to 25,000

[Si.]

I can't wait till this season is over

The closer we get to the end of the season the closer we get until McLeish gets given the bullet (hopefully)

Let us pray

This.

Once the club see how many season tickets havent been renewed im sure they will act.

Or should I say hoping they will?

[irreverentad]

Yes he has done that with the left overs of O'Neill's team and not his own team.

Judge him when he has had a chance to rectify O'Neill's mistakes in the transfer market and is not so dependent on bringing the wages down.

You are spot on.

But don't expect many to agree with you. The problem McLeish has is that for the people who want him out, their feelings are so strong that he faces a near impossible task to change their minds. Eg finish top 7 and there would still be a lot who want him out.

This is why the chance of him succeeding is so low and almost makes it pointless him staying.

100% agree with you about the feeling against McLeish and you can see this now with the personnel abuse he is receiving which i am personally disgusted with.

I can understand criticism of his ability as manager but the personal abuse is appalling.

Abuse! He has got off lightly in my opinion and if you are disgusted with what has been said so far then maybe you may want to consider following a sport where the fans are less passionate. There is not a fan on here who does not love the Villa but some of love them so much that we can not watch it being abused so badly.

What do you think the average gate will be next season? I would say 22,000 to 25,000

No a chance will it be that low.

More like 30k-32k. Which is still low.

"Villa have amazing support. If you hung 11 Villa shirts on a washing line, five thousand fans would turn up to watch them."

A lot of people go to the football to spend time with their mates and families and to share a common interest. That won't change to such a severe degree that we lose an average of 12k people per match.

[TrentVilla]

No a chance will it be that low.

More like 30k-32k. Which is still low.

It is unlikely to be as low as B6 has said but entirely possible.

We had 30'000 tickets sold for the Stoke game (probably less used) and we've been previously led to believe around 25'000 ST holders. If accurate that means only 5'000 match day tickets sold.

So if there is a large slump in ST holders combined with poor performances next season resulting in low match day sales an average attendance of around the 25'000 mark really isn't that unthinkable.

[AshVilla]

He deserves the abuse

Gets paid 2 million a year and delivers sweet **** all

Don't worry he's being thoroughly compensated

[Morpheus]

Its not excuses though. Its quoting facts.

O'Neill left the club in an awful mess financially and indeed squad wise.

AM has had to deal with our chairman's cutbacks as well as trying to replace Downing, Young, Luke Young, Friedal, on a limited budget while also having to rely on our youth to make up the numbers in our squad.

Not exactly ideal is it.

Excuses are exactly what you are putting forward.

I really don't need to hear yet again what O'Neill left behind, I'm fully aware of it thanks.

What he inherited wasn't ideal but it is no worse than O'Neill inherited at Sunderland and look at the positive impact he made. McLeish has failed, nobody expected him to be challenging for 4th place but our performance this season has been terrible.

If you want to talk about facts.

Worst home form in 26 years.

7 league wins all season.

There are two big fat facts for you.

So you're now being selective on what you want to hear and don't?

Is it not my right as a fellow poster to put my opinion forward whether it agrees with yours or not?

I'm sorry but thats a very arrogant attitude to have.

As far as O'Neill is concerned. You mention Sunderland even though we have been debating O'Neill's tenure at Villa. But since you have mentioned it, Sunderland were hammered 4-0 by Everton recently. Also Sunderland's midfield was much stronger than our own when O'Neill became Sunderland Manager and i would argue that on the whole, Sunderland's squad is at the moment better than our own.

You mention those facts and i accept them. Yes they aren't good and there's no getting away from that but those statistics are as a result of what has gone on before AM's tenure than actually as a direct result.

[TrentVilla]

That won't change to such a severe degree that we lose an average of 12k people per match.

A few seasons ago our average attendance for home games hit 40'000 as we pushed for 4th, our current average attendance this season is 33'922.

People have over the last couple of seasons stopped attending or stopped attending as often as they were previously.

With the direction of the club, the manager, the football,the total lack of ambition and the growing criticism of Lerner I think this is a trend that is likely to continue.

It won't drop by 12k by next season but ST sales will fall and I think our average attendance next season will be far lower than 33k.

[Morpheus]

Yes he has done that with the left overs of O'Neill's team and not his own team.

Judge him when he has had a chance to rectify O'Neill's mistakes in the transfer market and is not so dependent on bringing the wages down.

You are spot on.

But don't expect many to agree with you. The problem McLeish has is that for the people who want him out, their feelings are so strong that he faces a near impossible task to change their minds. Eg finish top 7 and there would still be a lot who want him out.

This is why the chance of him succeeding is so low and almost makes it pointless him staying.

100% agree with you about the feeling against McLeish and you can see this now with the personnel abuse he is receiving which i am personally disgusted with.

I can understand criticism of his ability as manager but the personal abuse is appalling.

Abuse! He has got off lightly in my opinion and if you are disgusted with what has been said so far then maybe you may want to consider following a sport where the fans are less passionate. There is not a fan on here who does not love the Villa but some of love them so much that we can not watch it being abused so badly.

What do you think the average gate will be next season? I would say 22,000 to 25,000

So passion is equal to abuse. Not in opinion it isn't.

[TrentVilla]

So you're now being selective on what you want to hear and don't?

I'm simply saying I don't need you to tell me what happened under O'Neill or the hangover from it.

Is it not my right as a fellow poster to put my opinion forward whether it agrees with your or not?

Yes as I've said several times.

As far as O'Neill is concerned. You mention Sunderland even though we have been debating O'Neill's tenure at Villa. But since you have mentioned it, Sunderland were hammered 4-0 by Everton recently. Also Sunderland's midfield was much stronger than our own when O'Neill became Sunderland Manager and i would argue that on the whole, Sunderland's squad is at the moment better than our own.

As is becoming increasingly common, I don't agree with you.

You mention those facts and i accept them. Yes they aren't good and there's no getting away from that but those statistics are as a result of what has gone on before AM's tenure than actually as a direct result.

Which is where we disagree. You seem to think everything can be blamed on those who went before McLeish while I think that some blame lies with him.

[nick76]

Its not excuses though. Its quoting facts.

O'Neill left the club in an awful mess financially and indeed squad wise.

AM has had to deal with our chairman's cutbacks as well as trying to replace Downing, Young, Luke Young, Friedal, on a limited budget while also having to rely on our youth to make up the numbers in our squad.

Not exactly ideal is it.

Excuses are exactly what you are putting forward.

I really don't need to hear yet again what O'Neill left behind, I'm fully aware of it thanks.

What he inherited wasn't ideal but it is no worse than O'Neill inherited at Sunderland and look at the positive impact he made. McLeish has failed, nobody expected him to be challenging for 4th place but our performance this season has been terrible.

If you want to talk about facts.

Worst home form in 26 years.

7 league wins all season.

There are two big fat facts for you.

So you're now being selective on what you want to hear and don't?

Is it not my right as a fellow poster to put my opinion forward whether it agrees with yours or not?

I'm sorry but thats a very arrogant attitude to have.

As far as O'Neill is concerned. You mention Sunderland even though we have been debating O'Neill's tenure at Villa. But since you have mentioned it, Sunderland were hammered 4-0 by Everton recently. Also Sunderland's midfield was much stronger than our own when O'Neill became Sunderland Manager and i would argue that on the whole, Sunderland's squad is at the moment better than our own.

You mention those facts and i accept them. Yes they aren't good and there's no getting away from that but those statistics are as a result of what has gone on before AM's tenure than actually as a direct result.

the last few words are rubbish, it's far more to do with him than what has gone on before

[irreverentad]

No a chance will it be that low.

More like 30k-32k. Which is still low.

It is unlikely to be as low as B6 has said but entirely possible.

We had 30'000 tickets sold for the Stoke game (probably less used) and we've been previously led to believe around 25'000 ST holders. If accurate that means only 5'000 match day tickets sold.

So if there is a large slump in ST holders combined with poor performances next season resulting in low match day sales an average attendance of around the 25'000 mark really isn't that unthinkable.

Our average attendance this year is about 34k. There were many reasons that Stoke was lower. Bank Holiday, its Stoke, bad weather, school holidays etc

I think a lot of people go to the match to share common interests with family and friends. I think the low prices will mean it will only be a slight drop but only time will tell.

[Morpheus]

So you're now being selective on what you want to hear and don't?

I'm simply saying I don't need you to tell me what happened under O'Neill or the hangover from it.

Is it not my right as a fellow poster to put my opinion forward whether it agrees with your or not?

Yes as I've said several times.

As far as O'Neill is concerned. You mention Sunderland even though we have been debating O'Neill's tenure at Villa. But since you have mentioned it, Sunderland were hammered 4-0 by Everton recently. Also Sunderland's midfield was much stronger than our own when O'Neill became Sunderland Manager and i would argue that on the whole, Sunderland's squad is at the moment better than our own.

As is becoming increasingly common, I don't agree with you.

You mention those facts and i accept them. Yes they aren't good and there's no getting away from that but those statistics are as a result of what has gone on before AM's tenure than actually as a direct result.

Which is where we disagree. You seem to think everything can be blamed on those who went before McLeish while I think that some blame lies with him.

Fair enough.

[makouns-knitwear]

That won't change to such a severe degree that we lose an average of 12k people per match.

A few seasons ago our average attendance for home games hit 40'000 as we pushed for 4th, our current average attendance this season is 33'922.

People have over the last couple of seasons stopped attending or stopped attending as often as they were previously.

With the direction of the club, the manager, the football,the total lack of ambition and the growing criticism of Lerner I think this is a trend that is likely to continue.

It won't drop by 12k by next season but ST sales will fall and I think our average attendance next season will be far lower than 33k.

Agreed and i can see some embarrassingly low attendances when the not so glamourous teams come to town.

[Demitri_C]

Personally I was happy with Houllier and wished we had given him a summer and preseason but I would like the new manager to be younger and play a short passing style, keeping possession etc.

i would have rather kept houllier than got mcleish in. houllier wasnt great, the football was not great but at least we tried to win games even when the quality was not there.

mcleish is worse than houllier in every way, maybe he conducts himself better in press conferences but he is shocking

houllier got walker on loan while mcleish signed hutton for 4m shows the difference eh?

[coda]

As I keep on stressing, I don't understand where this "decent bloke" tag comes from. What is it about him that makes him so nice exactly?

He benefits from the comparison to your mate Houllier who disrespected the club before he'd even arrived.